If Christ died on the cross for all of humanity

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OakleyDoak PM OakleyDoak
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quote#5126
Posted: 3/3/2012 1:36:56 PM

Do you have children ? If not,would you like to be a parent someday ?
If yes, then : We all know that we bring children into an imperfect world;but,we still want to have kids and experience being a parent.
Isn't this precisely what GOD did ?

When our children ask us for something that we know they're not mature and responsible enough to handle - we simply don't acquiesce ! But,we love our children nonetheless,don't we ?

When we pray for whatever,and GOD doesn't acquiesce - that doesn't mean that he is non-existent,or doesn't love us (his child-creation),right ?

I think a lot of people simply don't want to face the truth that at their age or after their experiences in life,that they just aren't spiritually mature or consistent, according to GOD's will and plan for them.

When some don't understand,they "doubt."

"You will never understand who you are until you understand who GOD is." ~ Billy Graham ~ : The Journey

I say : Be patient and faithful as you cultivate your relationship with the Creator.
And yes,I'm a follower of Christianity.

GOD BLESS EVERYONE !!

Mikniks PM Mikniks
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quote#5127
Posted: 3/3/2012 3:30:06 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by OakleyDoak:

Do you have children ? If not,would you like to be a parent someday ?
If yes, then : We all know that we bring children into an imperfect world;but,we still want to have kids and experience being a parent.
Isn't this precisely what GOD did ?


Wouldn't you say that bringing children into an imperfect world is selfish?  You say you do it because you want to be a parent, despite the fact that the world is a shitty place and your kid will have a tough time like everyone else.  That's pretty selfish.  So your god is selfish now too??  It's bad enough that apparently he's also a jealous god...
OakleyDoak PM OakleyDoak
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quote#5128
Posted: 3/3/2012 4:51:15 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Mikniks:


Wouldn't you say that bringing children into an imperfect world is selfish?  You say you do it because you want to be a parent, despite the fact that the world is a shitty place and your kid will have a tough time like everyone else.  That's pretty selfish.  So your god is selfish now too??  It's bad enough that apparently he's also a jealous god...


I'm not a parent !
And yes,I think that some people want to experience parenthood because at their base character lies some degree of selfishness.
But,also,a lot of people want to spring forth life and try to love,teach,protect,and support their progeny,with the intention to treasure the most sophisticated lifeform on our planet.

If we plant flowers to appreciate their beauty,are we selfish because we know they will wither and die ? OR,for that matter,what about any lifeform or vegetables that we grow simply to devour ?

The contrast between GOOD and EVIL,or FINE and SHITTY(your word),may be wherein lies the essence of the BEAUTY of this life.

"Courage is doing what you're afraid to do.There can be no courage unless you're scared." ~Eddie Rickenbacker~  WW I flying ace.

I believe it takes courage to want to rear children in this world.
I also believe GOD wants us to be strong in faith and courageous in seeking him and his goodness.

I hope you will refresh your spirit by praying with an open mind and heart...I'm sure you've tried...Don't stop !
I believe you're closer to GOD than you realize.I believe this is how he tests our faith and resolve !!

The best to you and yours

OakleyDoak PM OakleyDoak
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quote#5129
Posted: 3/3/2012 4:52:08 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Mikniks:


Wouldn't you say that bringing children into an imperfect world is selfish?  You say you do it because you want to be a parent, despite the fact that the world is a shitty place and your kid will have a tough time like everyone else.  That's pretty selfish.  So your god is selfish now too??  It's bad enough that apparently he's also a jealous god...


I'm not a parent !
And yes,I think that some people want to experience parenthood because at their base character lies some degree of selfishness.
But,also,a lot of people want to spring forth life and try to love,teach,protect,and support their progeny,with the intention to treasure the most sophisticated lifeform on our planet.

If we plant flowers to appreciate their beauty,are we selfish because we know they will wither and die ? OR,for that matter,what about any lifeform or vegetables that we grow simply to devour ?

The contrast between GOOD and EVIL,or FINE and SHITTY(your word),may be wherein lies the essence of the BEAUTY of this life.

"Courage is doing what you're afraid to do.There can be no courage unless you're scared." ~Eddie Rickenbacker~  WW I flying ace.

I believe it takes courage to want to rear children in this world.
I also believe GOD wants us to be strong in faith and courageous in seeking him and his goodness.

I hope you will refresh your spirit by praying with an open mind and heart...I'm sure you've tried...Don't stop !
I believe you're closer to GOD than you realize.I believe this is how he tests our faith and resolve !!

The best to you and yours

smoothd20 PM smoothd20
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quote#5130
Posted: 3/3/2012 7:05:37 PM
Excellent points Oakley Doak and it's good to see some fresh theist faces on this thread. You sir are a breath of fresh of air. Thanks for bringing the point home. 
OakleyDoak PM OakleyDoak
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quote#5131
Posted: 3/3/2012 11:49:18 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by smoothd20:

Excellent points Oakley Doak and it's good to see some fresh theist faces on this thread. You sir are a breath of fresh of air. Thanks for bringing the point home. 
SirJohnDrake PM SirJohnDrake
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quote#5132
Posted: 3/4/2012 1:16:35 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by smoothd20:

Just to be clear. This isn't about me trying to "feel better". Regardless of what atheist say I KNOW that their is a God. I could care less whether you believe it or not. Your lack of belief in God doesn't make him not exist. I know you guys will say that my belief will not make him exist and that's true but the reality is God is so therefore my belief or lack thereof has no bearing on the truth. There is a philosophy that this is all a dream world and we really don't exist. Now for the people that believe this you and I don't even exist. I can't speak for you but I KNOW I exist so for someone to tell me that I'm part of somebody's dream has no bearing on the truth. They're are Truths, Facts and Laws that exist on this plane. 
Atheists seek God in facts and evidence. You won't find God there. Love is a truth. There is no evidence that Love exists but we see the effects of Love all around us. We also see the effects of hate all around us. There is no evidence that hate exists only the effects of hate. Forgiveness isn't a fact. There is no evidence of forgiveness, only the effects of forgiveness. 
God is a Truth, Love is a Truth, Hate is a Truth, Forgiveness is a Truth. God created Universal Law as the impersonal Judge of the Universe. This is where we get Cause and Effect. Universal Law is immutable and a non respecter of persons as I stated. You can't argue with Universal Law. You can't say well I don't believe in Universal Law. Well you can say it but it doesn't have any effect on the Law. Universal Law is what prevents pure evil from taking over the world. 
Because we have free will, we make our choices based on this free will. Our choices become the Cause and Effect that determines our lives. As you mature you learn supposedly to make better choices that align with Universal Law. Atheists have decided to opt out of the process by denying Truths and Laws. They have decided to pursue a course of only finding facts and in so doing have built their lives on deceit and lies. How is it a lie? Because when you deny the very existence of that which you are you have denied the essence of all that there is. The facts you find don't necessarily add up to the truth. Example-Fact At one point we thought objects couldn't  travel more than the speed of light. Truth-Objects can move much faster than the speed of light.  Facts can change based on our knowledge at the time. Truths never change because they're eternal. Let he who has ears listen. Let he who has a seeking heart seek the Truth and seek the One who has made this all possible. 

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quote#5133
Posted: 3/4/2012 5:37:13 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by SirJohnDrake:

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quote#5134
Posted: 3/5/2012 1:08:12 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by RJSmith:

The U.S is like Iran.
Different religion - but fundamentally the same.

Believing the planet is just 5.000 years old is plain ignorant.
Some Americans probably think "The Flintstones" is a documentary.
Not everybody believes that. But I would equate believing the Earth is 5000 years old to the atheists believing that this is all one big accident. Both philosophies are fundamentally flawed and based on a fantasy. Fundamentalist and atheist have a lot in common. They just don't want to admit it. 
Mikniks PM Mikniks
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quote#5135
Posted: 3/5/2012 2:30:37 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by smoothd20:

Not everybody believes that. But I would equate believing the Earth is 5000 years old to the atheists believing that this is all one big accident. Both philosophies are fundamentally flawed and based on a fantasy. Fundamentalist and atheist have a lot in common. They just don't want to admit it. 


The problem most believers are having is understanding probability.  It really all depends on how many trials there were.  The more trials, the more likelihood of a specific event occurring.

Example: If the chances of an event are 1 in a million, and there was only going to be a single trial, then I'd say the likelihood of that event occurring are VERY low.  If you tell me there will be 1 million trials, then the event is almost certain to occur.

That is why there is almost a 100% probability of life existing on another planet in the universe.  SJD couldn't seem to grasp the concept, but that didn't surprise me.  Life on this planet is living proof that life can exist in this universe, and with the massive amount of planets in the universe, it is almost a certainty that life exists elsewhere.  It is funny to me that SJD laughs at the idea of life on other planets.  Ignorance must truly be bliss.  I almost sometimes wish I was ignorant as well, but I digress.


I also wanted to ask you something smooth.  You say you're not a man of religion, but a man of god.  You say this, but you proclaim Jesus as your savior and all that jazz.  You seem to be very much a Christian to me.  What's wrong with Muhammad and the other "prophets" out there?  Do you believe in a god and in Jesus?  Are you pagan?  What exactly do you believe?
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quote#5136
Posted: 3/5/2012 2:34:58 AM
Jesus Rocks! He will be back ...
Posted using a mobile device.
Mikniks PM Mikniks
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quote#5137
Posted: 3/5/2012 2:38:42 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by cpfs146:

Jesus Rocks! He will be back ...


Sure
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quote#5138
Posted: 3/5/2012 11:06:35 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by cpfs146:

Jesus Rocks! He will be back ...

get a grip, it's a story...
smoothd20 PM smoothd20
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quote#5139
Posted: 3/5/2012 11:38:44 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Mikniks:



The problem most believers are having is understanding probability.  It really all depends on how many trials there were.  The more trials, the more likelihood of a specific event occurring.

Example: If the chances of an event are 1 in a million, and there was only going to be a single trial, then I'd say the likelihood of that event occurring are VERY low.  If you tell me there will be 1 million trials, then the event is almost certain to occur.

That is why there is almost a 100% probability of life existing on another planet in the universe.  SJD couldn't seem to grasp the concept, but that didn't surprise me.  Life on this planet is living proof that life can exist in this universe, and with the massive amount of planets in the universe, it is almost a certainty that life exists elsewhere.  It is funny to me that SJD laughs at the idea of life on other planets.  Ignorance must truly be bliss.  I almost sometimes wish I was ignorant as well, but I digress.


I also wanted to ask you something smooth.  You say you're not a man of religion, but a man of god.  You say this, but you proclaim Jesus as your savior and all that jazz.  You seem to be very much a Christian to me.  What's wrong with Muhammad and the other "prophets" out there?  Do you believe in a god and in Jesus?  Are you pagan?  What exactly do you believe?
I absolutely agree with you about life on other planets. I have expressed this many times on this thread. Some Christians feel threatened by this because they limit God. I don't put a limit on my God. Life on a other planets is a certainty. Just a few days ago a close friend of mine who is the last person I would think of when it comes to something like this. He had a close encounter of the 2nd kind with a UFO  while driving from Colorado through Utah. I made this drive myself just a few short weeks so I know the area. He was very shaken up by it and told me it has changed his perception of life. He's also a Christian and would make fun of people when they spoke about this. He was very hesitant to tell me the story but after a couple of sentences I told him I knew what he was talking about because I had seen one before. My experience can't compare to his because his was very intense and he was quite shaken about the experience. We talked for over an hour and I just told him to process it. We don't know all the answers. Why the government lies to us about this stuff. But we do know that this has been going on for thousand of years. References to UFO's are in the bible. Ancient writings and pics depict UFO's as well. So this is very real regardless of whether Christians or atheists believe it. Doesn't matter. Like I told my good friend. "Now you know and no matter what people say or how crazy they say your story is. "You know and that's all that matters" I related my story to him and said that the people that witnessed it with me...We all know the truth about this. We just don't know who, why, and where of the deal.
smoothd20 PM smoothd20
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quote#5140
Posted: 3/5/2012 12:07:45 PM
I also wanted to ask you something smooth.  You say you're not a man of religion, but a man of god.  You say this, but you proclaim Jesus as your savior and all that jazz.  You seem to be very much a Christian to me.  What's wrong with Muhammad and the other "prophets" out there?  Do you believe in a god and in Jesus?  Are you pagan?  What exactly do you believe?

As I have stated before I am not religious I am spiritual. I believe in the holy trinity. Father, Son and the Holy Spirit. I believe that Jesus Christ is my savior and came to Earth not only to pay the price but also to show us the way back home. His life is a glorious example for us to follow. Perfection isn't a requirement to be a Christian. Regarding Paganism, I really don't have time today to get into the Pagan deal but I will say that many Christian traditions have their roots in Paganism. On this point the Jehovah's Witnesses are correct. But I feel there is still nothing wrong with celebrating them as long as people know what the true meaning of those holidays are. 
In regards to Muhammad and the other prophets. God has used many messengers and prophets to communicate with man on this Earth. I have no problem with Islam. My problem is with the fanatics that have taken over that great religion and turned it into something that it is not. I have issues with extremist of all stripes. I view atheism as extreme. I have issues with fundamentalist Christians that are extreme. Like I have stated before. God is all about Love and Forgiveness. That's it. Jesus preached on many occasions about the dogmatic practices of the Pharisees of the day. Today we see the same dogmatic BS from the religions trying to control man. In this way some atheists have a point because the religions have turned away from God. The atheists missed the point when they conclude that because of these dogmatic religions that somehow there is no God. Two wrongs will never make a right. I go to Church and I pray. I go to Church's that are mostly non denominational and preach sermons that are applicable to everyday modern life. I don't attend hell and brimstone Church's. The God I pray to is a loving God not a jealous God that man has invented to control others out of fear. Why should God be jealous? Of who? Of what? That makes no sense and I categorically reject the notion of God being jealous. I go to Church for fellowship because the bible says that is good. But make no mistake you can find God anywhere and you don't need a mediator to communicate with him. My Uncle is a Minister and once on a trip back East we were touring some of the Church's. This one prominent Minister that he introduced me to said something that has always stuck with me. He said and I quote "The first bus going to hell will be a bus full of preachers" I couldn't agree more. The Clergy has a special place of leadership and for those who abuse that power. Their price for that abuse will be heavy. God loves you Mikniks. Don't take my word for it. Seek him and he will show you the way home but you must turn away from atheism. Atheism leads you nowhere. It doesn't matter what your friends say. Your relationship with God is your relationship not your friends. Because in the end that's all that matters. These are my core spiritual beliefs and if it offends anyone so be it. If the atheist want proof of what I believe. My proof is in my words and the fact that I am living today.That is all that I offer. I move by faith and it has served me well.  Amen God is good.
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quote#5141
Posted: 3/5/2012 3:56:11 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Mikniks:



The problem most believers are having is understanding probability.  It really all depends on how many trials there were.  The more trials, the more likelihood of a specific event occurring.

Example: If the chances of an event are 1 in a million, and there was only going to be a single trial, then I'd say the likelihood of that event occurring are VERY low.  If you tell me there will be 1 million trials, then the event is almost certain to occur.

That is why there is almost a 100% probability of life existing on another planet in the universe.  SJD couldn't seem to grasp the concept, but that didn't surprise me.  Life on this planet is living proof that life can exist in this universe, and with the massive amount of planets in the universe, it is almost a certainty that life exists elsewhere.  It is funny to me that SJD laughs at the idea of life on other planets.  Ignorance must truly be bliss.  I almost sometimes wish I was ignorant as well, but I digress.


I also wanted to ask you something smooth.  You say you're not a man of religion, but a man of god.  You say this, but you proclaim Jesus as your savior and all that jazz.  You seem to be very much a Christian to me.  What's wrong with Muhammad and the other "prophets" out there?  Do you believe in a god and in Jesus?  Are you pagan?  What exactly do you believe?
Something just hit me in the middle of my work day Mikniks. By your own words you say 
"If the chances of an event are 1 in a million, and there was only going to be a single trial, then I'd say the likelihood of that event occurring are VERY low.  If you tell me there will be 1 million trials, then the event is almost certain to occur".
______________________________________________
So according to atheist the fact that there is life in the Universe period is one continuous accident after another. Bear in mind all these accidents being created out of absolutely nothing. Think about that for just one minute. Truly think about that and equate that with your own words. Keeping ego out of it there is only one conclusion you can come to by using your own words.  
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quote#5142
Posted: 3/5/2012 4:05:02 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by smoothd20:

Something just hit me in the middle of my work day Mikniks. By your own words you say 
"If the chances of an event are 1 in a million, and there was only going to be a single trial, then I'd say the likelihood of that event occurring are VERY low.  If you tell me there will be 1 million trials, then the event is almost certain to occur".
______________________________________________
So according to atheist the fact that there is life in the Universe period is one continuous accident after another. Bear in mind all these accidents being created out of absolutely nothing. Think about that for just one minute. Truly think about that and equate that with your own words. Keeping ego out of it there is only one conclusion you can come to by using your own words.  

All I meant by what I said is that we don't know how many big bangs there were.  The speed of the expansion of the universe had to be very specific for life to exist, but if there was trillions of big bangs, it makes it likely that one universe would sustain life.  I don't have the answers and probably never will, but I'm ok with that.
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quote#5143
Posted: 3/5/2012 4:21:49 PM
What are the chances that roses are red, my love, and whatever will be will be?
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quote#5144
Posted: 3/5/2012 4:23:41 PM
Ole Bobby Baby


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quote#5145
Posted: 3/5/2012 6:42:30 PM
QUOTE

Originally Posted by Mikniks:



The problem most believers are having is understanding probability. 

The problem atheists have is not understanding that existence can not happen by accident, there has to be a cause.

If you found a clock and examined the mechanism within it, you would probably think that this intricate mechanism was not the outcome of mere chance, that it had been designed.

Now look at the universe; is it possible that such an intricate mechanism, from the orbits of planets round the sun to the cells in your fingernails could all have happened by chance? Surely, this enormously complex mechanism has been designed, and the being that designed it must be God.

God is the perfect being. As He is most perfect, He must have all perfections. If God lacked existence He would not be perfect, as He is perfect He must exist.

Everything that exists has a cause. However, there must at some time have been a cause prior to all other causes. This 'prime mover' or first cause is necessary to explain existence. This first cause is the eternal God, the Creator of all existence.

Pascal's Wager

The French mathematician Blaise Pascal (1623-62) put forward an argument that would appeal to agnostics.

His argument goes something like this: God either exists or He does not. If we believe in God and He exists, we will be rewarded with eternal bliss in heaven. If we believe in God and He does not exist then at worst all we have forgone is a few sinful pleasures.

If we do not believe in God and He does exist we may enjoy a few sinful pleasures, but we may face eternal damnation. If we do not believe in God and He does not exist then our sins will not be punished.

Would any rational gambler think that the experience of a few sinful pleasures is worth the risk of eternal damnation?

...any Christian would tell you it is not worth the risk!  We accept Jesus Christ as our Lord Savior and repent our sins so that someday we will be allowed to enter God's Kingdom of Heaven and live for eternity in paradise!

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quote#5146
Posted: 3/5/2012 7:58:19 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Mikniks:


All I meant by what I said is that we don't know how many big bangs there were.  The speed of the expansion of the universe had to be very specific for life to exist, but if there was trillions of big bangs, it makes it likely that one universe would sustain life.  I don't have the answers and probably never will, but I'm ok with that.

If there was trillions of big bangs?...wow! that's a lot of fire power eh?...lol

As perfect as God is, He just needed to set off one big bang to get the ball rolling.

Please note: A big bang just doesn't set itself off on its own.

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quote#5147
Posted: 3/5/2012 8:01:18 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by SirJohnDrake:

Pascal's Wager

The French mathematician Blaise Pascal (1623-62) put forward an argument that would appeal to agnostics.

His argument goes something like this: God either exists or He does not. If we believe in God and He exists, we will be rewarded with eternal bliss in heaven. If we believe in God and He does not exist then at worst all we have forgone is a few sinful pleasures.

If we do not believe in God and He does exist we may enjoy a few sinful pleasures, but we may face eternal damnation. If we do not believe in God and He does not exist then our sins will not be punished.

Would any rational gambler think that the experience of a few sinful pleasures is worth the risk of eternal damnation?



That's not a good reason to believe in a higher power.
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quote#5148
Posted: 3/5/2012 8:09:13 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Drizle:


That's not a good reason to believe in a higher power.

I didn't say it was a good reason, the best reason I can give you is that our Lord Savior Jesus Christ died on the cross to pay for all the sins of mankind! 

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quote#5149
Posted: 3/5/2012 10:25:25 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by SirJohnDrake:

I didn't say it was a good reason, the best reason I can give you is that our Lord Savior Jesus Christ died on the cross to pay for all the sins of mankind! 


Fair enough.  I do believe in a higher power.  Personally, I don't believe that Jesus is my lord and savior, but we each have our own beliefs when it comes to this.  
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quote#5150
Posted: 3/6/2012 12:06:22 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Drizle:


Fair enough.  I do believe in a higher power.  Personally, I don't believe that Jesus is my lord and savior, but we each have our own beliefs when it comes to this.  
As long as you believe in a Higher Power you are lights years ahead of the atheists believe me.
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