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Author: [General Discussion] Topic: If Christ died on the cross for all of humanity
Rostos send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook |
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#5026
Posted: 2/21/2012 6:40:36 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by SYSTEM:


After 5000 posts, you still dont understand the fallacy of equivocation.........

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#5027
Posted: 2/21/2012 8:39:28 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Rostos:

After 5000 posts, you still dont understand the fallacy of equivocation.........


please explain it to me again, and while you're at it, explain to me how heaven is spelled in Australia or how I'm using deathbed in a metaphorical way....

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#5028
Posted: 2/21/2012 9:22:12 PM
amigos 
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#5029
Posted: 2/21/2012 9:28:13 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by kaponofor3:




This is ridiculous, and I say this as a Catholic


You're Cathlolic! Enough said. 
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#5030
Posted: 2/21/2012 9:35:25 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by HutchEmAll:


I've talked to many of my friends who are believers.  Long, serious conversations.  I've read plenty of books re. the subject in general. I will just never believe that you can "will" yourself into believing in God.  Believe me, I have a friend is born again and he's tried to explain it to me many times.  Just doesn't resonate and sometimes makes me feel comfortable.  

Ever hear of cognitive dissonance?  It's when your actions don't mirror what you think.  Easy to live with for short periods of time (we all do it.....white lies....fake having a good time on a date), but very mentally distressing over long periods of time.  

When I was young (11-13 years old).  I even asked God to help me with those feelings.  Begged him to come into my heart.  I never made that connection.

I know, I know, I didn't try hard enough.  Bull garbage.  As a terrified 12 year old, I tried my behind off.  

I'm the young scared kid, and God is the all powerful all knowing being.....and He doesn't help me when I begged?  



I appreciate you sharing this with us. God doesn't respond to begging. But let's stay focused on the challenge. The challenge isn't to talk to long time Christians and have lengthy conversations with them. But to find 2 atheists who have converted to a theist philosophy or Christianity and asked them why. Also to find 2 atheist who have converted from Christianity or theist philosophy and asked them why. I understand that you can't be forced by outside forces. But let's just follow the road to see where it leads us. At least I will give you credit for at least acknowledging the challenge. Nobody else will even do that because they're not interested in reality but choose to continue to live in their fantasy world and not be threatened by something as little as Truth.
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#5031
Posted: 2/21/2012 9:47:42 PM
 I think everyone on this thread knows how I feel about man made religions that want to replace God. Catholicism is the head of the class in this department. Catholic history is rife with corruption and other sordid affairs that continue to this day. The Catholic Church is singlehandedly responsible for more atrocities than the other Christian Churches combined. This is indisputable. So for a Catholic to dispute a direct connection to God is hardly a surprise.  
So to my Catholic friends I say although you are sincere in your relationship with God the organization that you're affiliated with has done more harm than good in furthering that relationship for spiritual progress and seems more intent on preserving their dogmatic laws than saving souls at the expense of innocent people. There are serious issues within the Catholic Church that haven't been addressed for hundreds of years. I think it's high time that the Catholic Church take a closer look at what their real goal is on this Earth. 
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#5032
Posted: 2/22/2012 9:10:03 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by smoothd20:

You're Cathlolic! Enough said. 


Bigot. This from the guy who says he can't possibly be racist because he is black...
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#5033
Posted: 2/22/2012 9:35:46 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by jagerfury:



Bigot. This from the guy who says he can't possibly be racist because he is black...
And you're the idiot that said I was racist against Black people assuming as you always do that I was white.
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#5034
Posted: 2/22/2012 9:40:04 AM
Jagerfury- In addition pointing out the corruption of the Catholic Church isn't a racist statement because Catholics can be of any race. But of course you don't know that because your view of the world is myopic you truly don't have a clue. But as usual your hypocrisy sees no limits. It's ok for you to criticize all Christians but the minute we do so we're racist or some kind of bigot.  You sir are truly a piece of work. 
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#5035
Posted: 2/22/2012 1:18:29 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by HutchEmAll:


And to answer your question re. do I believe in God?  I can only answer honestly:  I don't know if He exists.  But as was stated by SJD, God will apparently judge you justly in the end.  And I believe I am living a just life.  And if I am condemned because he says I didn't believe in Him, I am going to ask Him straight up why some people who steal from others....and murder.....and cheat on their wives......are in heaven.  And why am I (who doesn't do any of those things) not allowed?  I'm going ask Him why he never gave me the ability to understand Him.  Why He allowed some to commit "crimes" against their fellow man yet still get into heaven. Where as I contribute to society and try to help my fellow man and I'm shunned.  I'm going to ask him how he could be so cruel as to require people to give more credence to him as opposed to the others they lived with on earth.  I'm going to ask why he forgives those who cause pain to others on earth.

I can't change who I am.  

That's what my plan is.  

You must understand everyone who is in heaven were all sinners when they lived on earth, of course the only exception was Jesus Christ.

Not anyone of us deserve to be in heaven but through the grace and salvation of our merciful Lord, He provided a way for anyone who wants it to be pardoned from their sins in order to be with Him in heaven.

Sinners (whether they were adulterers, murderers, liars, thieves, idolators etc.) who are allowed in heaven all have done what is required. 

They all had asked for forgiveness of their sins, accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord Savior and did away with their sinful ways while they were living on earth. This is how through the grace of our merciful Lord, He pardoned their sins and allowed them to have eternal life in paradise in His Kingdom of Heaven.

Meanwhile a person such as yourself, even though you claim to live a just life is still a person who sinned before, perhaps you lied or you stole something, whatever it was, you have sinned like everyone else in this world.

And so because you are a sinner and have never, or refuse to a ask the Lord for forgiveness of your sins and have not or will not accept Jesus Christ as your Lord Savior, you will not be allowed to enter God's Kingdom of Heaven. This is written in the bible and the bible is the Word of God.

So no matter how much you plead with Him or try to reason with Him, He will stand by His Word. Anyone who rejects Jesus Christ as their Lord Savior while they were living on earth will be condemned to hell for all eternity.

So you want to be saved? Well, it is perfectly clear what you must do. You must ask for forgiveness of your sins and accept Jesus Christ as your Lord Savior, do away with your sinning ways (which you claim you are cause you are living a just life now) then and only then will you be saved through the grace and salvation of our merciful Lord!  

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#5036
Posted: 2/22/2012 3:24:14 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Rostos:

Fallacy of equivocation........



Based on what you BELIEVE, not what you KNOW.
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#5037
Posted: 2/22/2012 3:33:46 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Rostos:

Hutch, you never answered my question,

Do you believe in God?


Sure I answered the question.  But it's a bad question.  The better question would be, "do you think it's possible for God to exist?"

"Belief" is too ambiguous.  I had a friend of mine die in high school when he believed he could swim across a lake when he was drunk. Was it possible?  Sure.  Likely?  Probably not.  

You don't KNOW that God exists any more than my friend in high school knew he could swim across that lake.  
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#5038
Posted: 2/22/2012 3:42:06 PM
But to find 2 atheists who have converted to a theist philosophy or Christianity and asked them why.
_____________

I have 2 friends who have been down this road.  One of them was a gal who lived in my condo complex years back.  She would continually give me a hard time about pre-marital sex.  Then she ended up getting pregnant before she got married and told me it was a gift from God.   

What do their experiences as to how they got there have to do with me, by the way?    




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#5039
Posted: 2/22/2012 3:44:12 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Rostos:

Fallacy of equivocation........


By the way, what are the two unrelated meanings we're discussing here.  
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#5040
Posted: 2/22/2012 5:33:11 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by HutchEmAll:


Sure I answered the question.  But it's a bad question.  The better question would be, "do you think it's possible for God to exist?"

"Belief" is too ambiguous.  I had a friend of mine die in high school when he believed he could swim across a lake when he was drunk. Was it possible?  Sure.  Likely?  Probably not.  

You don't KNOW that God exists any more than my friend in high school knew he could swim across that lake.  

Beliefs are derived from deductive reasoning....

Look at a married couple, do they have empriical or scientific evidence that they will be together till they die? Of course not, so why do they get married? Because of the faith and trust they have in each other..they dervied there faith fron there deductive reasoning, ie, do they get along, find each other attractive, have the same goals, ie kids, travel etc etc...If the answer is yes, then they are more likely to stay with each other making trust in each other more plausable.

Now apply this to God, look at the world around you, complexities, order, laws, natural beauty etc etc, do you deduct from this that it all happened by pure dumb blind luck with no reason for it at all or there was a creator behind it?

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#5041
Posted: 2/22/2012 5:45:47 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by HutchEmAll:


By the way, what are the two unrelated meanings we're discussing here.  

I mentioned that something cannot come from nothing in this naturalistic world..........How do we know this? Has anyone observed something coming from nothing? The laws of this world and physics of this world DO NOT allow something to come from nothing. It will be breaking physical laws.

But we do know the universe began to exist, it was born, from nothing??????

Then the typical atheist says well who made God like system said not knowing he is commiting the fallacy of equivocation.....

Remember by definition, God created the universe, meaning he is outside the universe, in another realm, by definition this is the supernatural realm.....

Do the laws and physics of the super natural apply to the natural world that we live in? We dont know, we will never know, therefore, to suggest that it is , is committing this fallacy of equivocation....

When i mention something cant come from nothing in this natural world then the atheist says then who made God? Why does the atheist just stop at that, why doesnt he ask, how does God breath is there is no oxygen in the supernatural or whatdoes he eat, making an assumption that he has to eat to survive or what does he drink etc etc....

The fallacy is trying to equivocate the laws and physics of this world to that of the supernatural which cannot be done because we dont know and will never know the laws of the supernatural..  

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#5042
Posted: 2/22/2012 7:20:38 PM
Anyone who rejects Jesus Christ as their Lord Savior while they were living on earth will be condemned to hell for all eternity.




oh my
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#5043
Posted: 2/22/2012 8:45:37 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by lbcake:

Anyone who rejects Jesus Christ as their Lord Savior while they were living on earth will be condemned to hell for all eternity.




oh my

TALK ABOUT COMPLETELY MISSING THE POINT.....

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#5044
Posted: 2/22/2012 11:41:58 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by smoothd20:

Jagerfury- In addition pointing out the corruption of the Catholic Church isn't a racist statement because Catholics can be of any race. But of course you don't know that because your view of the world is myopic you truly don't have a clue. But as usual your hypocrisy sees no limits. It's ok for you to criticize all Christians but the minute we do so we're racist or some kind of bigot.  You sir are truly a piece of work. 

I called you a bigot for your bigoted statement about catholics dumb f%#k.

I call you a dumb f#$k for your illogical arguments.
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#5045
Posted: 2/22/2012 11:51:20 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by lbcake:

Anyone who rejects Jesus Christ as their Lord Savior while they were living on earth will be condemned to hell for all eternity.




oh my

Come judgment day I'm sure you won't be rolling with laughter. Nothing funny about eternity in hell.

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#5046
Posted: 2/23/2012 1:24:17 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by jagerfury:


I called you a bigot for your bigoted statement about catholics dumb f%#k.

I call you a dumb f#$k for your illogical arguments.
Either you're drunk or you're mentally retarded. Which one is it because you can't seem to keep your lies straight. Initially you called me a racist because you thought I was white. Since I had to drop the bomb on your dumb behind you have now changed it to bigot.  Either way you're a hypocrite. You can criticize Christians but hell be damned if we do the same thing. If you would take your head out of your behind you would realize where I'm coming from but all you do on this thread is put people down. How does it feel to get a taste of your own medicine Assclown!
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#5047
Posted: 2/23/2012 1:35:56 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by HutchEmAll:

But to find 2 atheists who have converted to a theist philosophy or Christianity and asked them why.
_____________

I have 2 friends who have been down this road.  One of them was a gal who lived in my condo complex years back.  She would continually give me a hard time about pre-marital sex.  Then she ended up getting pregnant before she got married and told me it was a gift from God.   

What do their experiences as to how they got there have to do with me, by the way?    




Hutch I appreciate your efforts but you're not getting the exercise. It's not about knowing the people and making conclusions on your own. The exercise is about asking these individuals what changed their mind. That's what you want to into. The event that turned them around. Keep trying.
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#5048
Posted: 2/23/2012 1:48:00 AM
I must say that it is amazing the hypocrisy that some atheists have I mean really. With the exception of Mikniks and a few others most of the atheist are all over the place. It's ok for them to attack us with hate and vitriol but when I make a statement of fact about the Catholic Church suddenly that's wrong. I have nothing against Catholics themselves. My issues are with the Catholic Church as an organization. Anybody who has read this thread can see that I'm clearly against ANY religion that puts itself ahead of God. The Catholic Church does this. It doesn't make me a bigot against all Catholics but I am on the record with my feelings about the Catholic Church. For people with an education that actually read they can see my position is consistent. Even a few atheist have stated that. But for the uneducated like Jagerfury who likes to take the lazy man's way out by having knee jerk reactions to anything that he doesn't understand. This is just too much work for him. I understand he's a blowhard and he brings nothing to the table but constant negativity. It is what it is and history shows beyond a shadow of a doubt that my views on the Catholic Church are spot on. We haven't even gotten into the details of their more salacious adventures and I really don't want to numerate them here. 
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#5049
Posted: 2/23/2012 1:53:01 AM
Here's a nice assignment for you guys. Why does the Vatican have ambassadors from every country represented there. Why is the Vatican considered a separate country along with the Holy See. Can you tell me any other religion that has this status? No other Christian or non Christian religion has this status. Why?
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#5050
Posted: 2/23/2012 1:56:21 AM
Meanwhile we're still waiting for strong atheist to step forward and take up the challenge. My goal for this thread is to stop all the back and forth crap and let's start putting some work in. That way we can see who is for real and who is just interested in mental masturbation. There is a lot of going round and round. So either we start putting up or shutting up. 
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