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Author: [Systems & Strategies] Topic: Craps and Dice Control
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#26
Posted: 3/29/2014 4:32:01 AM
Get a small rosin bag.  

I am a fan of the flying V as I call it.  My best heater was in costa rica where the drinks were free and flowing.  I got kicked off the table because I was at the far corner and 1 of the two die did not hit the back wall, after I was warned twice.  I had max odds (10x) on all my $5 come bets except 4/10.  At first I was shocked because I had never seen such a thing.  To just switch shooters with a whole lot of money on the table.  Everyone tried to pass the dice back around to me but they said I could not shoot anymore.  I started saying every curse word I knew in Spanish and told them to give me all my money on the table.  $100 cashed out to $850 so that might have been a blessing because I had close to $350 on the table, but the table was hopping I was on 45-60 min tear but I don't remember exactly, like I said the drinks were flowing.  The only place I have been where they said I could not set the dice was Aruba.  I was the only one on the table and politely took my money off the table and walked away.  I am have been intending to throw the boxcar set for hardways.  I have been messing with hardway parlays with people who know the techniques.  $1 and 3 parlays on 6/8 parlays pays $999.  I have been soo close with other shooters not even setting for hardways.  Man I love craps!   

To those betting the "dark side", has anyone shooting ever said anything to you?   I may be guilty of that.  You will at least get a stare from me if I hit one or two.  I take it personally and I love to be challenged.  All in good fun though.  Plus I don't like to see people on the table pissing away money   There is nothing quite like being at a packed, hot table where everyone is cashing in.

There is also this dude I see who uses 3 chip racks, that are normally used for 1 person and stacks them with $25s.  He plays both sides.  Is there any potential profit in that?  It is my assumption he just does that to look cool while basically breaking even.
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#27
Posted: 3/30/2014 12:20:57 AM

Rosin bag...Now why didn't I think of that...Thanks for the tip..

Nobody ever says nutthin' if I choose to bet the "darkside" any particular day...Wouldn't it be rude to disparage the way a person chooses to play in a casino?...I know I would never say anything to anybody....Why start up trouble with strangers over what bets they choose to make.

I have never seen a person bet large amounts going both ways on a craps table. I have heard of a strategy that preaches this way of betting,...Seems to be a worthless idea and a boring way to play..

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#28
Posted: 3/30/2014 6:27:55 PM
If you go both ways, betting pass and dont pass, you would lose money i believe because on a 12 you just push on darkside bet, and lose on passline. I never play darkside but thats my understanding. 

I also saw this casino show that showed two guys, opposite sides of the table, one betting darkside, one betting passline. They racked up comp points and drank for cheap. But the program did show the casino personal catching on to what they were doing so i dont think this would work for too long anyways. 
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#29
Posted: 3/30/2014 7:11:48 PM

Betting wrong can be as profitable as betting right...It's called "gambling"  If that is not your style, cool...betting both ways however can produce a winning session if you know what you are doing..Albeit at a higher vig...

If you were a pit boss the only way you could catch two guys just betting to get comps would be if they each made the EXACT same bet every roll, and played for more than 45 minutes or so doing the obvious scam...

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#30
Posted: 4/1/2014 6:39:06 AM
Multiple times I was supposed to meet people that said they could control dice.  Either they didn't show or they just did not do a good job.  But the one that did show some promise was scolded by the pit boss' for not throwing the dice to the end or were busted for sliding them.  I don't think you can get away with this if the pit is watching closely. 
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#31
Posted: 4/1/2014 3:28:00 PM

[Quote: Originally Posted by Lippsman] Multiple times I was supposed to meet people that said they could control dice.  Either they didn't show or they just did not do a good job.  But the one that did show some promise was scolded by the pit boss' for not throwing the dice to the end or were busted for sliding them.  I don't think you can get away with this if the pit is watching closely.  [/Quote

I am highly skeptical that any persons alive can control the dice with any degree of long term success. Short term, sometimes yes, long term, absolutely no.

How about training a monkey to shoot dice. Only the monkey can throw the dice at the table, the patrons are there to just bet.

If a trained monkey threw the dice all day long there would be every variable possibility seen, just as with different humans passing the dice to the next shooter etc,.Why we think humans can control the dice is ridiculous...The MAIN factor in winning or losing is TIMING...

Get to your spot at the table when the dice are randomly hot..you win...Get to the table when the dice are randomly "choppy," you lose. Reality is: You need to be lucky in choosing a table to play at.

 

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#32
Posted: 4/7/2014 11:46:44 AM
ahhhhhh craps the oldest game ever way back to roman days

house edge is smallest built in 1.5% catch ahot shooter that can hit 4 numbers and hold dice for 20 mins your rich..
NO gambling bets like hard ways place bets and pass line with odds

a place bet pays instantly a come bet pays after that number is repeated then it's taken down a place bets stays and you can up it 1 unit after each hit

did this few times in casinos my own rolls $25 table 2 hrs walked away with $4000 profit.

asked if i wanted a room i said already staying here for weekend

so i said get me two cartons of cig's and free food for next two days

i will play again each day.

Nice when your winning
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#33
Posted: 4/18/2014 9:03:26 AM
Does anybody notice a difference between new dice with sharp edges and other dice that the edges are not so sharp? I do my best throwing and I notice the entire tables do better with the older dice.
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#34
Posted: 4/18/2014 9:54:58 AM
On my way to play some craps tonight, hoping for a good trip 
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#35
Posted: 4/18/2014 9:58:20 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by AceRothstein27:

On my way to play some craps tonight, hoping for a good trip 

Where are you playing ?
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#36
Posted: 4/20/2014 10:38:03 PM
I played at caesars in atlantic city. Really didnt roll too well but one thing i noticed was all of the hardways i was rolling and i do roll the hardways set.

 I did have two rolls that really limited the damage though. One roll where i hit 5 sixes and 5 eights including back to back hard 8s. Also has another roll where i hit 4 different points and go paid 24 to 1 on the fire bet. Besides those two rolls, i was getting killed most of the time, throwing a couple times and that was it before 7ing out. But even in those short rolls, i was always rolling a hardway set at least once. 

Who knows if it was "dice control" lol i had a lot of fun and didnt come home broke. In the end thats all you could hope for 
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#37
Posted: 4/21/2014 11:41:54 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by AceRothstein27:

I played at caesars in atlantic city. Really didnt roll too well but one thing i noticed was all of the hardways i was rolling and i do roll the hardways set.

 I did have two rolls that really limited the damage though. One roll where i hit 5 sixes and 5 eights including back to back hard 8s. Also has another roll where i hit 4 different points and go paid 24 to 1 on the fire bet. Besides those two rolls, i was getting killed most of the time, throwing a couple times and that was it before 7ing out. But even in those short rolls, i was always rolling a hardway set at least once. 

Who knows if it was "dice control" lol i had a lot of fun and didnt come home broke. In the end thats all you could hope for 

Well that's pretty much it, have fun with it and only play with fun money. Because really, in the long run you will lose money playing craps, unless you find someone that doesn't lay odds and will let you back up with their  wagers with free odds. 

The boring, but safe way I always play.  2 don't pass wagers with max odds, two don't come wagers with max odds.  House edge cut to almost zilch.

Now if it's a full table I will sometimes play pass and come, because I don't want a mass beatdown when I am  the only one winning at the end of the table.  LOL

But most of the time I will tuck myself in the corner and not say a word when everyone is getting their chips scooped up and some of them slide me way. 

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#38
Posted: 4/21/2014 12:49:57 PM
I only bet when i roll or when my friends roll because i dont want to be the guy who's yelling at strangers. But ill yell at my friends lol 

I really should bet against other rollers since most of the time i'm sitting their waiting for them to crap out anyway. It's funny because the dice usually do work their way over to me pretty quickly. 
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#39
Posted: 4/24/2014 1:22:07 AM
I was introduced to the game in the mid 80's by some friends but didn't get serious about it until 2002.One of the leading proponents of " Dice Control " at that time was Jerry Patterson, who was holding monthly classes in both Las Vegas and Atlantic City. Back then the cost of the two day" Parr Method "seminar ran $ 633.00 which included course material, discounted rates at an off strip hotel and a field trip to a casino at the end of the seminar with one of the instructors.The lead instructor for those seminars was Chris Pawlicki. Obviously you won't get many detractors who are going to shell out over $ 600 to attend a 2-day seminar, so your are surrounded by like " believers." So in between the theory of dice control, the instruction of setting the dice,throwing the dice,mixed in with a few betting progressions,breathing exercises and finally trying to achieve a " zen " like composure ( they referred to it as being in the " Zone " ) for throwing in the heat of battle that pretty much was what they taught.They also had what they called " practice rigs " for sale which was a three sided wooden structure ( imagine a dresser drawer with the front missing.It had the rubber diamonds that you will find in the legit craps tables and was lined with felt. You would then put the rig up on your kitchen table and practice throwing  into it from whatever distance you felt comfortable with.A few positive perks were that you could attend any future seminar as an alum for free and you were enrolled into a closed dice list server forum to keep abreast of up to-date dice action. I never saw Jerry throw the dice in class, Chris did as well as other team coaches. There were about 6 practice rigs set up so that everyone got a feel for throwing the dice the correct way.
At my second alumni seminar the next year, that is where I met what I call the heavyweights of Dice Control.These were current Parr alumni who would go on to promote their own style. That list would include Dominic " the Dominator " LoRiggio, Steve " Heavy " Haltom and Beau " Dice Coach " Parker. Funny how these proponents tend to all have nicknames.They all have their own websites now. So if you've gotten this far you are probably wondering if its worth the cost. Or is this really achievable to the average thrower of the bones? Informative yes, but practical no. Look at it another way, have you ever bowled a 300 game ? Few have and most never will. You could get yourself a practice rig, or a full sized used craps table and practice daily week in and week out trying to achieve a great Sevens-to-rolls Ratio. But then you go from the quiet of your practice set up to the real world of a casino.The table length and felt tightness very from casino to casino.Certain casinos will not let you set the dice.Pit crews will mock you, box men will ask you to hurry up.You are doing your best to concentrate and they are doing their best to interrupt you. Apart from that you have your fellow craps players shouting, crowding and causing havoc.Bottom line, very few can achieve any consistency in dice control or maintain it for any length of time. Yes, you may have a wonderful shooting session and make some serious $$. The next outing most likely will regress to the norm. Best advice I can offer is to just enjoy yourself, limit your losses and be grateful when the dice roll your way. I will answer any p.m.'s if there are any further questions.
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#40
Posted: 4/24/2014 6:07:48 AM
i mean i was believed it was a longshot that this actually worked but i just feel more confident rolling the dice my way than the average guy who chucks them across. 

You said you saw some of these guys roll, well how were there rolls? did they prove to have a solid sevens to rolls ratio or was that all bull? 

thanks
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#41
Posted: 4/25/2014 12:41:57 AM
There is no such thing as dice control. Anyone can 7 out in the first throw. The casino change the new set of dice everyday and they bounce differently as well.
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#42
Posted: 4/25/2014 9:46:00 AM
My wife and I both practice Dice Control and we throw better than most shooters at the table most of the time. My wife has especially gotten off many long rolls the past couple of months. There are also some clinkers in there. Roger Clemens gave up a home run now and then. I can't say it works but I don't think it hurts any.
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#43
Posted: 4/25/2014 10:42:44 AM
I haven't been to a craps table in probably 10 years but I was really into the dice setting for a while.  One thing that has been mentioned in this thread is if you don't hit the back wall they'll will call you out on it.  

I had a perfect throw right to where the table meets the back board and rolled numbers every time.   They always catch on to what you're doing and tell you to hit the wall.  Then you'll see someone roll sloppy and not even get close to the back wall and they never say anything.  

Setting works but it won't make you rich.  I love craps and I love to roll but I also know that I'm only gaining a small edge by setting.  If you're on the pass line for every shooter you're trying to break even on a cold table when you roll.  

My strategy has become very simple unless the table is hot.  

1) bet the dark side for every shooter, especially on a cold table.  Always bet don't pass or even don't come when the table is cold.  

2) bet the pass and 2 or 3 come bets when it's your turn and you're setting the dice.  

There's no way to get rich off the craps table because in any casino game math always wins.  The best you can do is try to minimize losses while waiting for some luck.  
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#44
Posted: 4/26/2014 5:28:35 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by AceRothstein27:

  i just feel more confident rolling the dice my way than the average guy who chucks them across. 

You said you saw some of these guys roll, well how were there rolls? did they prove to have a solid sevens to rolls ratio or was that all bull? 

thanks



Jerry P. was more like an Ed Sullivan type of character. An M.C. who went on to explain what was in store for the two day seminar.He spent about about 15 minutes to begin the seminar and then quietly retreated to the back of the room. You have to remember that when we all had a chance to practice our throws, we had all of the time in the world to get the grip that we were learning, so we were under no pressure. Chris P. ( who was the only speaking  instructor ) had a wonderful grip and toss, but they weren't there to establish any great SSR's. It was pretty well understood that the " inner circle " would go out later that night to an undisclosed casino and ply their wares. The students were on their own to practice whatever they cared to.In a real sense the inner circle were just regaling past moments of glory whenever they did have a " great shooting hand." As far as actually seeing one of the inner circle ( Jerry P. / Chris P. / Dominic / Steve H. or Beau P. ) throw the bones, I did see Steve throw at a place called Terrible Herbst Casino which was basically a locals casino with craps tables that were on the shorter side to help a " precision shooter " have an easier time of it.Steve was a stacker, don't recall what numbers he actually lined up, but the esssence of stacking was for both dice to hit the felt at the same time with the top one forcing the lower one down on whatever number was facing up at the time of the set. So in a sense the bottom die didn't have to hit the back wall while the top die did ( if you threw if perfectly ). Steve H. had no remarkable throws that session. If any of you guys would like links to learn more I can provide them in another post.
But by all means, if you are comfortable throwing the dice with a specific set you will be in a better positive frame of mind. Being as comfortable at the table playing a negative expectation game is important.
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#45
Posted: 4/26/2014 5:58:47 PM
I have dealt with Jerry P before.  He comes off as a flim flam salesman to me. Lots of smoke and mirrors. But personable. 
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#46
Posted: 4/27/2014 11:46:18 AM
QUOTE

Originally Posted by Allison_Road:

I was introduced to the game in the mid 80's by some friends but didn't get serious about it until 2002.One of the leading proponents of " Dice Control " at that time was Jerry Patterson, who was holding monthly classes in both Las Vegas and Atlantic City. Back then the cost of the two day" Parr Method "seminar ran $ 633.00 which included course material, discounted rates at an off strip hotel and a field trip to a casino at the end of the seminar with one of the instructors.The lead instructor for those seminars was Chris Pawlicki. Obviously you won't get many detractors who are going to shell out over $ 600 to attend a 2-day seminar, so your are surrounded by like " believers." So in between the theory of dice control, the instruction of setting the dice,throwing the dice,mixed in with a few betting progressions,breathing exercises and finally trying to achieve a " zen " like composure ( they referred to it as being in the " Zone " ) for throwing in the heat of battle that pretty much was what they taught.They also had what they called " practice rigs " for sale which was a three sided wooden structure ( imagine a dresser drawer with the front missing.It had the rubber diamonds that you will find in the legit craps tables and was lined with felt. You would then put the rig up on your kitchen table and practice throwing  into it from whatever distance you felt comfortable with.A few positive perks were that you could attend any future seminar as an alum for free and you were enrolled into a closed dice list server forum to keep abreast of up to-date dice action. I never saw Jerry throw the dice in class, Chris did as well as other team coaches. There were about 6 practice rigs set up so that everyone got a feel for throwing the dice the correct way.
At my second alumni seminar the next year, that is where I met what I call the heavyweights of Dice Control.These were current Parr alumni who would go on to promote their own style. That list would include Dominic " the Dominator " LoRiggio, Steve " Heavy " Haltom and Beau " Dice Coach " Parker. Funny how these proponents tend to all have nicknames.They all have their own websites now. So if you've gotten this far you are probably wondering if its worth the cost. Or is this really achievable to the average thrower of the bones? Informative yes, but practical no. Look at it another way, have you ever bowled a 300 game ? Few have and most never will. You could get yourself a practice rig, or a full sized used craps table and practice daily week in and week out trying to achieve a great Sevens-to-rolls Ratio. But then you go from the quiet of your practice set up to the real world of a casino.The table length and felt tightness very from casino to casino.Certain casinos will not let you set the dice.Pit crews will mock you, box men will ask you to hurry up.You are doing your best to concentrate and they are doing their best to interrupt you. Apart from that you have your fellow craps players shouting, crowding and causing havoc.Bottom line, very few can achieve any consistency in dice control or maintain it for any length of time. Yes, you may have a wonderful shooting session and make some serious $$. The next outing most likely will regress to the norm. Best advice I can offer is to just enjoy yourself, limit your losses and be grateful when the dice roll your way. I will answer any p.m.'s if there are any further questions.

 

So we have professional dice setters willing to teach you how to do it yourself for $633.

Also Just like the sports betting touts who call you with the "game of the month". Yeah, pay me big money and I will tell you will win the game tonight.

The people who pull this off have no shame in taking your money...If they are so successful and good in throwing dice or picking sportsbet winners why do they need to pry money from you or me.

All they need to do is bet on their own picks, or drive to a casino to shoot dice..If these touts are so good at what they claim they can do they would be fabulously wealthy and would not even give you the time of day unless you were their butler or chauffeur. 

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#47
Posted: 4/27/2014 8:57:20 PM
"If these touts are so good at what they claim they can do they would be fabulously wealthy and would not even give you the time of day unless you were their butler or chauffeur. "

Great point that people often dont realize. 

Honestly to put the craps and dice control thing to a rest, I enjoy setting the dice and throwing them like these "dice controllers" taught me on youtube. Even if it doesnt work, it makes the game more fun to me and that's really all that matters. Why chuck the dice like an animal when you could send a beautifully arcing pair of dice backspinning through the air? thats how i feel lol 
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#48
Posted: 4/27/2014 10:07:42 PM
"Honestly to put the craps and dice control thing to a rest, I enjoy setting the dice and throwing them like these "dice controllers" taught me on youtube. Even if it doesnt work, it makes the game more fun to me and that's really all that matters. Why chuck the dice like an animal when you could send a beautifully arcing pair of dice backspinning through the air? thats how i feel lol"
 
I agree as well....If you do not have fun and enjoyment at the dice table why take the bother and expense to go ..
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#49
Posted: 4/28/2014 1:25:24 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by AceRothstein27:

"If these touts are so good at what they claim they can do they would be fabulously wealthy and would not even give you the time of day unless you were their butler or chauffeur. "

Great point that people often dont realize. 

Honestly to put the craps and dice control thing to a rest, I enjoy setting the dice and throwing them like these "dice controllers" taught me on youtube. Even if it doesnt work, it makes the game more fun to me and that's really all that matters. Why chuck the dice like an animal when you could send a beautifully arcing pair of dice backspinning through the air? thats how i feel lol 

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#50
Posted: 4/28/2014 6:32:53 AM

Their are two sides to 'dice control' the phyisical; which has no probability, and the 'spirits' which has documented video, of phenominal 'dice control'

On May 23, 2009 Ms Patty Demouro threw 154 straight WINS, controling the dice for 3 hours 26 minutes, accomodating 22 out the box 11's... No 7's were thrown on all of the 154 initiated rolls. this took place at the Borgata Casino, Altantic City, N.J. This drew the interest of Claire Sudath, a writer for Time Magazine, who six days later pubished an account of what she later learned to believe as Ms DemourĂ  (who up to that time had never played craps, or thrown dice, she virtually had no knowledge of how the game is played) was spiritually possessed at the time she was throwing the dice (the spirits where initiating 'dice control' form the unknown) unknown to everyone except Johnny Capra from N.J. a notorious craps player who has won, and lost millions on LV and Atlantic City tables, was at Ms Demoura's side on all 154 rolls. Dr Thomas Cover of Stanford University has listed the odds of this happening at 1.56 trillion to 1...Claire Sudath contacted a collegue, Frank Scoblete who recently published "Beat the Craps out of the Casino's" who not only confered tha Johnny Capra played a major roll by unifying the spirits into her physical roll of the dice, thus "spiritual dice control"  Frank Scoblete goes further, in June, 2005 a pseudonym known only as "Captain" entered the 'oldest' running crap game in LV THE EL CORTEZ since 1946. The Captain (in full video documentation), hit on 147 continous rolls, and walked with a 6.3 million payout. so what do these have in common whith the spirits? after review their is a distince reflection in both films of both the Captain, and Ms Demoura they cannot be seen by the naked eye, but appear on film to be identical, enter the spirits (Discovery Channel >documented gambling phenominoms) I have no probable believe in 'physical' dice control, however, It's beyond resonable doubt that if one is able to make contact with the spiritual world of mysticology, that, and only that has the ability to "dice control' or if you can locate them, talk to Johnny Capra, or if you can find him, the Captain. or better yet read the book by Frank Scoblete (as mentioned above)

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