If Christ died on the cross for all of humanity

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Author: [General Discussion] Topic: If Christ died on the cross for all of humanity
smoothd20 PM smoothd20
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quote#5026
Posted: 2/22/2012 9:35:46 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by jagerfury:



Bigot. This from the guy who says he can't possibly be racist because he is black...
And you're the idiot that said I was racist against Black people assuming as you always do that I was white.
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quote#5027
Posted: 2/22/2012 9:40:04 AM
Jagerfury- In addition pointing out the corruption of the Catholic Church isn't a racist statement because Catholics can be of any race. But of course you don't know that because your view of the world is myopic you truly don't have a clue. But as usual your hypocrisy sees no limits. It's ok for you to criticize all Christians but the minute we do so we're racist or some kind of bigot.  You sir are truly a piece of work. 
SirJohnDrake PM SirJohnDrake
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quote#5028
Posted: 2/22/2012 1:18:29 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by HutchEmAll:


And to answer your question re. do I believe in God?  I can only answer honestly:  I don't know if He exists.  But as was stated by SJD, God will apparently judge you justly in the end.  And I believe I am living a just life.  And if I am condemned because he says I didn't believe in Him, I am going to ask Him straight up why some people who steal from others....and murder.....and cheat on their wives......are in heaven.  And why am I (who doesn't do any of those things) not allowed?  I'm going ask Him why he never gave me the ability to understand Him.  Why He allowed some to commit "crimes" against their fellow man yet still get into heaven. Where as I contribute to society and try to help my fellow man and I'm shunned.  I'm going to ask him how he could be so cruel as to require people to give more credence to him as opposed to the others they lived with on earth.  I'm going to ask why he forgives those who cause pain to others on earth.

I can't change who I am.  

That's what my plan is.  

You must understand everyone who is in heaven were all sinners when they lived on earth, of course the only exception was Jesus Christ.

Not anyone of us deserve to be in heaven but through the grace and salvation of our merciful Lord, He provided a way for anyone who wants it to be pardoned from their sins in order to be with Him in heaven.

Sinners (whether they were adulterers, murderers, liars, thieves, idolators etc.) who are allowed in heaven all have done what is required. 

They all had asked for forgiveness of their sins, accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord Savior and did away with their sinful ways while they were living on earth. This is how through the grace of our merciful Lord, He pardoned their sins and allowed them to have eternal life in paradise in His Kingdom of Heaven.

Meanwhile a person such as yourself, even though you claim to live a just life is still a person who sinned before, perhaps you lied or you stole something, whatever it was, you have sinned like everyone else in this world.

And so because you are a sinner and have never, or refuse to a ask the Lord for forgiveness of your sins and have not or will not accept Jesus Christ as your Lord Savior, you will not be allowed to enter God's Kingdom of Heaven. This is written in the bible and the bible is the Word of God.

So no matter how much you plead with Him or try to reason with Him, He will stand by His Word. Anyone who rejects Jesus Christ as their Lord Savior while they were living on earth will be condemned to hell for all eternity.

So you want to be saved? Well, it is perfectly clear what you must do. You must ask for forgiveness of your sins and accept Jesus Christ as your Lord Savior, do away with your sinning ways (which you claim you are cause you are living a just life now) then and only then will you be saved through the grace and salvation of our merciful Lord!  

HutchEmAll PM HutchEmAll
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quote#5029
Posted: 2/22/2012 3:24:14 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Rostos:

Fallacy of equivocation........



Based on what you BELIEVE, not what you KNOW.
HutchEmAll PM HutchEmAll
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quote#5030
Posted: 2/22/2012 3:33:46 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Rostos:

Hutch, you never answered my question,

Do you believe in God?


Sure I answered the question.  But it's a bad question.  The better question would be, "do you think it's possible for God to exist?"

"Belief" is too ambiguous.  I had a friend of mine die in high school when he believed he could swim across a lake when he was drunk. Was it possible?  Sure.  Likely?  Probably not.  

You don't KNOW that God exists any more than my friend in high school knew he could swim across that lake.  
HutchEmAll PM HutchEmAll
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quote#5031
Posted: 2/22/2012 3:42:06 PM
But to find 2 atheists who have converted to a theist philosophy or Christianity and asked them why.
_____________

I have 2 friends who have been down this road.  One of them was a gal who lived in my condo complex years back.  She would continually give me a hard time about pre-marital sex.  Then she ended up getting pregnant before she got married and told me it was a gift from God.   

What do their experiences as to how they got there have to do with me, by the way?    




HutchEmAll PM HutchEmAll
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quote#5032
Posted: 2/22/2012 3:44:12 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Rostos:

Fallacy of equivocation........


By the way, what are the two unrelated meanings we're discussing here.  
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quote#5033
Posted: 2/22/2012 5:33:11 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by HutchEmAll:


Sure I answered the question.  But it's a bad question.  The better question would be, "do you think it's possible for God to exist?"

"Belief" is too ambiguous.  I had a friend of mine die in high school when he believed he could swim across a lake when he was drunk. Was it possible?  Sure.  Likely?  Probably not.  

You don't KNOW that God exists any more than my friend in high school knew he could swim across that lake.  

Beliefs are derived from deductive reasoning....

Look at a married couple, do they have empriical or scientific evidence that they will be together till they die? Of course not, so why do they get married? Because of the faith and trust they have in each other..they dervied there faith fron there deductive reasoning, ie, do they get along, find each other attractive, have the same goals, ie kids, travel etc etc...If the answer is yes, then they are more likely to stay with each other making trust in each other more plausable.

Now apply this to God, look at the world around you, complexities, order, laws, natural beauty etc etc, do you deduct from this that it all happened by pure dumb blind luck with no reason for it at all or there was a creator behind it?

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quote#5034
Posted: 2/22/2012 5:45:47 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by HutchEmAll:


By the way, what are the two unrelated meanings we're discussing here.  

I mentioned that something cannot come from nothing in this naturalistic world..........How do we know this? Has anyone observed something coming from nothing? The laws of this world and physics of this world DO NOT allow something to come from nothing. It will be breaking physical laws.

But we do know the universe began to exist, it was born, from nothing??????

Then the typical atheist says well who made God like system said not knowing he is commiting the fallacy of equivocation.....

Remember by definition, God created the universe, meaning he is outside the universe, in another realm, by definition this is the supernatural realm.....

Do the laws and physics of the super natural apply to the natural world that we live in? We dont know, we will never know, therefore, to suggest that it is , is committing this fallacy of equivocation....

When i mention something cant come from nothing in this natural world then the atheist says then who made God? Why does the atheist just stop at that, why doesnt he ask, how does God breath is there is no oxygen in the supernatural or whatdoes he eat, making an assumption that he has to eat to survive or what does he drink etc etc....

The fallacy is trying to equivocate the laws and physics of this world to that of the supernatural which cannot be done because we dont know and will never know the laws of the supernatural..  

lbcake PM lbcake
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quote#5035
Posted: 2/22/2012 7:20:38 PM
Anyone who rejects Jesus Christ as their Lord Savior while they were living on earth will be condemned to hell for all eternity.




oh my
Rostos PM Rostos
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quote#5036
Posted: 2/22/2012 8:45:37 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by lbcake:

Anyone who rejects Jesus Christ as their Lord Savior while they were living on earth will be condemned to hell for all eternity.




oh my

TALK ABOUT COMPLETELY MISSING THE POINT.....

jagerfury PM jagerfury
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quote#5037
Posted: 2/22/2012 11:41:58 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by smoothd20:

Jagerfury- In addition pointing out the corruption of the Catholic Church isn't a racist statement because Catholics can be of any race. But of course you don't know that because your view of the world is myopic you truly don't have a clue. But as usual your hypocrisy sees no limits. It's ok for you to criticize all Christians but the minute we do so we're racist or some kind of bigot.  You sir are truly a piece of work. 

I called you a bigot for your bigoted statement about catholics dumb f%#k.

I call you a dumb f#$k for your illogical arguments.
SirJohnDrake PM SirJohnDrake
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quote#5038
Posted: 2/22/2012 11:51:20 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by lbcake:

Anyone who rejects Jesus Christ as their Lord Savior while they were living on earth will be condemned to hell for all eternity.




oh my

Come judgment day I'm sure you won't be rolling with laughter. Nothing funny about eternity in hell.

smoothd20 PM smoothd20
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quote#5039
Posted: 2/23/2012 1:24:17 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by jagerfury:


I called you a bigot for your bigoted statement about catholics dumb f%#k.

I call you a dumb f#$k for your illogical arguments.
Either you're drunk or you're mentally retarded. Which one is it because you can't seem to keep your lies straight. Initially you called me a racist because you thought I was white. Since I had to drop the bomb on your dumb behind you have now changed it to bigot.  Either way you're a hypocrite. You can criticize Christians but hell be damned if we do the same thing. If you would take your head out of your behind you would realize where I'm coming from but all you do on this thread is put people down. How does it feel to get a taste of your own medicine Assclown!
smoothd20 PM smoothd20
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quote#5040
Posted: 2/23/2012 1:35:56 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by HutchEmAll:

But to find 2 atheists who have converted to a theist philosophy or Christianity and asked them why.
_____________

I have 2 friends who have been down this road.  One of them was a gal who lived in my condo complex years back.  She would continually give me a hard time about pre-marital sex.  Then she ended up getting pregnant before she got married and told me it was a gift from God.   

What do their experiences as to how they got there have to do with me, by the way?    




Hutch I appreciate your efforts but you're not getting the exercise. It's not about knowing the people and making conclusions on your own. The exercise is about asking these individuals what changed their mind. That's what you want to into. The event that turned them around. Keep trying.
smoothd20 PM smoothd20
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quote#5041
Posted: 2/23/2012 1:48:00 AM
I must say that it is amazing the hypocrisy that some atheists have I mean really. With the exception of Mikniks and a few others most of the atheist are all over the place. It's ok for them to attack us with hate and vitriol but when I make a statement of fact about the Catholic Church suddenly that's wrong. I have nothing against Catholics themselves. My issues are with the Catholic Church as an organization. Anybody who has read this thread can see that I'm clearly against ANY religion that puts itself ahead of God. The Catholic Church does this. It doesn't make me a bigot against all Catholics but I am on the record with my feelings about the Catholic Church. For people with an education that actually read they can see my position is consistent. Even a few atheist have stated that. But for the uneducated like Jagerfury who likes to take the lazy man's way out by having knee jerk reactions to anything that he doesn't understand. This is just too much work for him. I understand he's a blowhard and he brings nothing to the table but constant negativity. It is what it is and history shows beyond a shadow of a doubt that my views on the Catholic Church are spot on. We haven't even gotten into the details of their more salacious adventures and I really don't want to numerate them here. 
smoothd20 PM smoothd20
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quote#5042
Posted: 2/23/2012 1:53:01 AM
Here's a nice assignment for you guys. Why does the Vatican have ambassadors from every country represented there. Why is the Vatican considered a separate country along with the Holy See. Can you tell me any other religion that has this status? No other Christian or non Christian religion has this status. Why?
smoothd20 PM smoothd20
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quote#5043
Posted: 2/23/2012 1:56:21 AM
Meanwhile we're still waiting for strong atheist to step forward and take up the challenge. My goal for this thread is to stop all the back and forth crap and let's start putting some work in. That way we can see who is for real and who is just interested in mental masturbation. There is a lot of going round and round. So either we start putting up or shutting up. 
D_Unit PM D_Unit
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quote#5044
Posted: 2/23/2012 1:59:05 AM
QUOTE

Originally Posted by smoothd20:

I must say that it is amazing the hypocrisy that some atheists have I mean really. With the exception of Mikniks and a few others most of the atheist are all over the place. It's ok for them to attack us with hate and vitriol but when I make a statement of fact about the Catholic Church suddenly that's wrong. I have nothing against Catholics themselves. My issues are with the Catholic Church as an organization. Anybody who has read this thread can see that I'm clearly against ANY religion that puts itself ahead of God. The Catholic Church does this. It doesn't make me a bigot against all Catholics but I am on the record with my feelings about the Catholic Church. For people with an education that actually read they can see my position is consistent. Even a few atheist have stated that. But for the uneducated like Jagerfury who likes to take the lazy man's way out by having knee jerk reactions to anything that he doesn't understand. This is just too much work for him. I understand he's a blowhard and he brings nothing to the table but constant negativity. It is what it is and history shows beyond a shadow of a doubt that my views on the Catholic Church are spot on. We haven't even gotten into the details of their more salacious adventures and I really don't want to numerate them here. 

Atheist push their beliefs and agenda more than most Christians. They are the epitome of hyprocrisy. Christians will always be vivlified for their beliefs more so than any other. I've come to accept it, and pray for the ones who violently oppose.

D_Unit PM D_Unit
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quote#5045
Posted: 2/23/2012 2:01:28 AM
I dont oppose any religion who preaches love and compassion. However for some reason Christians are the ones who are most attacked.
smoothd20 PM smoothd20
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quote#5046
Posted: 2/23/2012 4:50:58 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by D_Unit:

I dont oppose any religion who preaches love and compassion. However for some reason Christians are the ones who are most attacked.

True words that you speak D_Unit. 
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quote#5047
Posted: 2/23/2012 8:42:01 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by smoothd20:

Either you're drunk or you're mentally retarded. Which one is it because you can't seem to keep your lies straight. Initially you called me a racist because you thought I was white. Since I had to drop the bomb on your dumb behind you have now changed it to bigot.  Either way you're a hypocrite. You can criticize Christians but hell be damned if we do the same thing. If you would take your head out of your behind you would realize where I'm coming from but all you do on this thread is put people down. How does it feel to get a taste of your own medicine Assclown!


I called you racist for your racist comments. I called you a bigot for your bigoted comments. I call you an idiot for your illogical arguments. I could give a garbage if you are black, white, or hispanic. I don't judge by the color of your skin, but by the words which come out of your mouth.



HutchEmAll PM HutchEmAll
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quote#5048
Posted: 2/23/2012 11:39:34 AM
Now apply this to God, look at the world around you, complexities, order, laws, natural beauty etc etc, do you deduct from this that it all happened by pure dumb blind luck with no reason for it at all or there was a creator behind it?
_____________

Look at the famine....the earthquakes....the tsunamis......God behind those as well?
HutchEmAll PM HutchEmAll
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quote#5049
Posted: 2/23/2012 11:48:57 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by smoothd20:

Hutch I appreciate your efforts but you're not getting the exercise. It's not about knowing the people and making conclusions on your own. The exercise is about asking these individuals what changed their mind. That's what you want to into. The event that turned them around. Keep trying.

For the 84th time, I HAVE.  One of my friends just was approached by a guy and they got together to have coffee and talk about God. The message hit him and the rest is history.  He never had a "moment where God touched him."  And he was the person who got together with another friend over coffee every once in a while and eventually, she was on board.  

You can keep trying, but the story isn't going to change.  
HutchEmAll PM HutchEmAll
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quote#5050
Posted: 2/23/2012 12:12:14 PM
Remember by definition, God created the universe, meaning he is outside the universe, in another realm, by definition this is the supernatural realm.....
__________________

So something can be created from nothing in the supernatural realm?  And if you think so, how do you know?
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