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Author: [Gaming Industry - US] Topic: New form of sports wagering coming to Nevada
vanzack send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook | My Sportsbook: Pinnacle Sports |
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#51
Posted: 10/23/2012 7:39:38 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by petek:

fadeonly,

You said I skirted your previous question above so I looked back at your original question. What does exchange wagering offer you that you don't already have? I can't answer that until you tell me all of the places you bet at. If none of them are with a sports exchange company, I offer you many reasons in my original opening post.

Pete

Pete -

I think out of all of the direct questions you avoided - this is the most critical.  You keep calling your product an exchange and comparing it to exchange betting.  It clearly is not.  Why not address all of the concerns of everyone posting in this thread and tell us how your exchange isnt slanted towards the books having the edge?

Every advantage is for the SB in your model.  You are not an exchange as exchanges are currently defined.  You compare yourself above to online exchanges - but you are not comparable - apples to oranges.  It wont help to come back and explain the legality or the reasons you are setting it up this way - in order for your model to work you have to explain to the customers (us) why it is we would want to use your product.  I currently bet at exchanges, as do most here - so lets get past that - and lets stop pretending that your product is anything like an online exchange.

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#52
Posted: 10/24/2012 12:57:42 AM
Nick69 you are full of garbage if you think locals in Nevada get more action than the sportsbooks. Cantor Gaming gets millions of dollars in wagers every day. Tell me what local handles a few million.
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#53
Posted: 10/24/2012 1:12:53 PM

Cantor takes a bet but a large part of their handle comes from Floyd Mayweather and his pack of fellow people, Other than that, it's all square money from the tourists that couldn't pick a winner if they had the next day's paper.

Las Vegas sportsbooks could close tomorrow and no one would care. The few sharp bettors that still live in town have been betting offshore for years. The only action the sportsbooks take is from rube tourists and jagoff locals that come in to bet their five dollar four team parlays.

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#54
Posted: 10/24/2012 1:24:48 PM
Exchange wagering in my opinion is not sports betting. You are telling another person what your opinion is on a game and making a bet with another person not a bookie. If I were Betfair I would buck the US ban on sportsbetting and offer exchange wagering in the USA. If the Feds want to challenge them in court then so be it. If people in the USA can make money entering fantasy sports leagues which is nothing but opinions on player outcomes using their stats why can't I give my opinion on game outcomes on exchange betting websites?
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#55
Posted: 10/24/2012 1:38:45 PM
Betfair can and should start taking bets from US residents today and there's nothing the federal government can do about it. Betfair is licensed and chartered in a sovereign jurisdiction. The federal government has no say over whom any of these offshore sportsbooks take bets from as long as it's done on the internet. The internet is free territory even though the US thinks it controls that too.
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#56
Posted: 10/25/2012 12:03:17 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by vanzack:

Pete -

I think out of all of the direct questions you avoided - this is the most critical.  You keep calling your product an exchange and comparing it to exchange betting.  It clearly is not.  Why not address all of the concerns of everyone posting in this thread and tell us how your exchange isnt slanted towards the books having the edge?

Every advantage is for the SB in your model.  You are not an exchange as exchanges are currently defined.  You compare yourself above to online exchanges - but you are not comparable - apples to oranges.  It wont help to come back and explain the legality or the reasons you are setting it up this way - in order for your model to work you have to explain to the customers (us) why it is we would want to use your product.  I currently bet at exchanges, as do most here - so lets get past that - and lets stop pretending that your product is anything like an online exchange.

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#57
Posted: 10/25/2012 7:17:41 AM

I dont see how this benefits anyone but the book And why would Pete come on such a small sample of bettors here to promote this.Its another way for the casual bettor to place more action,which in turn always favors the house.He talks about the laying off with other books?Hasnt this been going on since the beginning?who doesnt lay off bets//////.In vegas  the big books ,havebeen layng off bets from the day they opened the doors.just not legally Now they can do it legally? so what How does that benifit me

,As far as the exchange thing  we already do that ,most games i can buy a half point to 2 points .already For me more options for the bettor  ,means more ways for  the house to win, just like teasers ,reverses,parlays,in general all these options the book came up with over the years ,always looks like its a good thing for the player,but we all know all these plays benifit the book in the long run Exchange betting is no diffrent

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#58
Posted: 10/25/2012 10:03:20 AM
Exchange Betting is much better than regular betting. Wouldn't you rather lay -107 on a team than -110. If your answer is yes than exchange betting is the only way to go. I'm not saying all odds will be that low but check Betfair out on a Saturday or Sunday and see how many games against the points that your laying less than -110. Over time your profit/ loss stats will keep you in the game longer laying less than -110 on games. Also, exchange betting on horses it 100 times better because you can bet horses to lose or offer your own odds on a short price favorite that you think will get beat and clean up when it loses.
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#59
Posted: 10/25/2012 10:50:07 AM
QUOTE

Originally Posted by josbran:

Exchange Betting is much better than regular betting. Wouldn't you rather lay -107 on a team than -110. If your answer is yes than exchange betting is the only way to go. I'm not saying all odds will be that low but check Betfair out on a Saturday or Sunday and see how many games against the points that your laying less than -110. Over time your profit/ loss stats will keep you in the game longer laying less than -110 on games. Also, exchange betting on horses it 100 times better because you can bet horses to lose or offer your own odds on a short price favorite that you think will get beat and clean up when it loses.

Josbran -

Nobody is debating that exchange betting is great for the bettor.

I think the discussion here has gotten a little muddy - but the point at hand is whether or not the OP idea is an exchange. I hold that it is not an exchange and cannot be compared to Betfair or MB.  When there is one group who can only buy, and one group who can only sell - and there is not total transparency - that is not an exchange.

If there was a true exchange opening in Nevada - I am sure there would be a lot of people interested.  But our govt wont allow that.

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#60
Posted: 10/26/2012 3:18:59 AM
Nick69 I currently live in Vegas. I have 250k offshore and wager daily with Cantor for five figures. You know much of a pain in the behind it is to get these bank wire withdrawals from South America every week and have to explain to my bank what the darn it is? Whoever lives in Vegas and chooses to bet offshore is receiving 600 dollar moneygrams and doesnt know real money from a pile of chicken feed. As for locals, I dont like to worry about whether my book is going to get handcuffed and marched into a court room.

Anyone that lives in Vegas and doesnt like to bet with the sportsbooks is either a small timer or flatout retarded
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#61
Posted: 10/26/2012 3:32:02 AM
QUOTE

Originally Posted by cowboyfan1325:

Nick69 I currently live in Vegas. I have 250k offshore and wager daily with Cantor for five figures. You know much of a pain in the behind it is to get these bank wire withdrawals from South America every week and have to explain to my bank what the darn it is? Whoever lives in Vegas and chooses to bet offshore is receiving 600 dollar moneygrams and doesnt know real money from a pile of chicken feed. As for locals, I dont like to worry about whether my book is going to get handcuffed and marched into a court room.

Anyone that lives in Vegas and doesnt like to bet with the sportsbooks is either a small timer or flatout retarded

What are your thoughts on the OP idea?

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#62
Posted: 10/26/2012 9:56:53 AM

vanzack,

This IS exchange wagering. It's just different than what's out there. I can only offer (create) processes that I own. Traditional Betfair exchanges (patents) are covered by that company globally. Within the United States, another person has the rights to that process but chooses not do to anything about it (check the US Patent Office). So here, this is what I have and let me tell you, Cantor wishes it was available now. Half the things they were doing would be legal with my method.

Pinnacle could have an agent in Nevada, post offers and Cantor could have taken them. How easy. I know you said there was no market for this but how wrong can you be? And look at the handle size this one company was doing.

I appreciate your candid remarks but now that we've seen what is going on behind the scenes, I'm pretty confident that my roll of the dice will have some wheels to it. This may not affect you since you're not in Nevada but when you see how the government can come in and take over those that are not playing by the rules, you might start to think that paying your taxes is a lot better than sitting in the cooler.

This is just an option for those who want it, not for those like you who don't. Give it time to breathe.

Pete

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#63
Posted: 10/26/2012 10:09:08 AM

Good luck Pete.  Let us know when it gets off the ground.

 

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#64
Posted: 10/27/2012 7:43:54 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by petek:

Advantages? You're funding an account with a real brick and mortar legal establishment where you'll never have to worry your account will be confiscated or you can be prosecuted. I work with the law in my business. That's my job.

Pete

Can I come to Nevada "ONCE" to fund the account, then take care of business at home ? Guess that is the real question here. Other than that, it would be great if someone lived there and could take a bankroll to the establishment once and work from there is place of maing deposits all the time. But if you live in vegas or anywhere in the state it should not be a big deal. It guys in other states that need help.

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#65
Posted: 10/27/2012 7:53:27 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by petek:

vanzack,

This IS exchange wagering. It's just different than what's out there. I can only offer (create) processes that I own. Traditional Betfair exchanges (patents) are covered by that company globally. Within the United States, another person has the rights to that process but chooses not do to anything about it (check the US Patent Office). So here, this is what I have and let me tell you, Cantor wishes it was available now. Half the things they were doing would be legal with my method.

Pinnacle could have an agent in Nevada, post offers and Cantor could have taken them. How easy. I know you said there was no market for this but how wrong can you be? And look at the handle size this one company was doing.

I appreciate your candid remarks but now that we've seen what is going on behind the scenes, I'm pretty confident that my roll of the dice will have some wheels to it. This may not affect you since you're not in Nevada but when you see how the government can come in and take over those that are not playing by the rules, you might start to think that paying your taxes is a lot better than sitting in the cooler.

This is just an option for those who want it, not for those like you who don't. Give it time to breathe.

Pete

If you can make it work, Im in... Anything to be able to place a bet without worrying if I am getting paid or arrested. Looks the 250K guy and his pinnacle are gone. Not only minutes after posting. That is sad to see someone lose all that money and with someone he thought would never get arrested. Got to think he has lost it all... Keep me in the loop...

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#66
Posted: 10/29/2012 11:30:08 AM
@petek - "Check the patent office" - WTF does that mean? Don't cite s*** like that w/out explanation. WHO ALLEGEDLY (I STRESS the latter) is the "other person" who owns the US patent, and, moreover, why in the world would they want to do that? The only conceivable reason would be because they want to stifle it to keep their own market going. EXPLAIN. 
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#67
Posted: 10/30/2012 9:50:22 AM

%^$%,

Easy does it! No need to get in a huff. Just ask.

You can go to: http://www.uspto.gov/

Scroll down and "search by number": 8282471

That's my patent. The "person to person" patent is owned by a person named Aquilino (who apparently lives in New Jersey) . I can't answer your questions to him.

Pete

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#68
Posted: 10/30/2012 9:52:26 AM

Pipe-Light,

Anyone will be able to fund an account. All that is required is you are within Nevada's borders at the time you want to make an offer.

Pete

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#69
Posted: 10/30/2012 12:26:33 PM

i am a matchbook client and dont understand why someone with the credibility of buffet or helu doesnt validate this type of wagering by backing the operation with the credibility and guarantees of his own name.

matchbook takes out roughly a one percent charge for every play. that equates to a 365 percent return on gross sales with minimum overhead. they do not have any of their own working capital involved other than the cost of upgrading servers. the problem with pete is he is just another peter, paul or pablo with no crediblity.

if someone like helu or buffet would start this type of operation it would be instantly profitable on name recognition alone.

a guy like petek...not so much.

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#70
Posted: 10/30/2012 12:39:46 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Qncyk1:

matchbook takes out roughly a one percent charge for every play. that equates to a 365 percent return on gross sales

Ignoring the rest of your post - what does the above mean?

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#71
Posted: 10/30/2012 1:10:30 PM

worded incorrectly. matchbook makes a one percent profit on yearly gross sales.

 

 

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#72
Posted: 10/30/2012 11:25:28 PM
How often do books have different waves of action? Book 1 with team A is at 65%  Book 2 with team A is more then likely around 60%. 
My question is how often is book 2 or 100 going to have 30% action on team A? So if majority of books are getting the same amount of action on one side, who is going to take the other to offer the lower juice or even lower lines?
People are going to low ball every offer. If the line is at +4 everyone is going to ask for +5 or -3 and more then likely with lower juice. There is no middle.
I like the idea of changing the game. Although I think it needs more work.
My initial reaction to this theory is it will not work as everyone is going to want to move lines and juice in their favor. The books are going to be open for middles and loses.


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#73
Posted: 10/31/2012 1:11:22 AM

Pete:

This question is a bit off topic, but I have been curious about it for awhile and an answer from a professional in the sports wagering business would be much appreciated.

Will there ever be a "live betting" market run online and legal in the state of nevada.  I am thinking of a template much like the WSEX futures market, where prices of shares related to a pointspread or money line fluctuate as the actual game is being played.

It seems that the software for running such an exchange that would facilitate free and open trade in this fashion could be easily accessible and employed;  it has already been built and is used in our CME Commodities markets on the electronic Globex exchange.

For my money, this would be a monster in the gaming world...the markets would be huge with books and players being involved in the buying and selling of shares within a given contest thus setting market price; the markets could be run and overseen using the CME group's commodities markets as a template.

Has there been any talk at all about the development of a live , legal, Nevada-based futures market based on sporting contests?

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#74
Posted: 11/1/2012 10:35:39 AM

bigvern1013,

You have to be very careful when using the term "online". Most people don't realize that regulatory statutes first drummed up specifically stated that "online" use is prohibited (I'm talking specifically in Nevada now.) So someone (me?) has to challenge that order which will take a couple of years to overturn. Hence, we have applications that have been approved like my idea under the VPN heading or the like. Not "online" (and there's a difference by definition)

The idea itself is terrific. It's up to those who own those ideas (and there are many with a variety of patent ownerships) to get on the ball and begin to craft the procedure.

I know Nevada gets knocked continually from everything A-Z when it comes to sports wagering, but it does not preclude the fact that the Nevada Gaming Control Board is very high tech savvy and very open to new ideas. It's up to those who want those ideas to come to fruition to move on them. Cantor Gaming has been very aggressive with this market and I'm always looking forward to what they may do next. General talk of market based wagering is at a minimum in the public sector still. I think there has to be a balance between what ideas can be popular and what ideas could in fact, drive the sportsbooks out of their own business. P2P exchange wagering is great and popular globally but that might put a dent in the sportsbooks handle. Hence, I thought of the P2B version which includes that market. Not to create "an advantage" for the book, rather/also, an option for the player to have something new if they want it. The general public, before this recent Cantor uproar, didn't realize just how much the market for "laying" off really is.

We all know Nevada is a small player when it comes to putting things into practice and amount of money handled compared to the offshores. No doubt Nevada's influence is larger than its own model. If New Jersey and Delaware can create and expand it's sports betting market, everything moves up. Ideas like the one you mentioned is a natural.

But remember, because of regulations and the governing bodies that any state will have with sports wagering, change is slow. Nevada has been particularly slow but I think we'll evolve quickly very soon.

There are two things in Nevada that are continually resisted: Change and soccer wagering. (That's a joke!)

Pete

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#75
Posted: 11/5/2012 11:54:43 PM

Pete,

Thank you for the input.....and yes I agree that it does seem as if nevada is a bit slow on making any changes that will upset the apple cart.

Oh well,  I am sure that when the bottom line is attractive enough, then some of these things will come to fruition.

Take it easy and best of luck with your endevour.

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