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Author: [Gaming Industry - US] Topic: New form of sports wagering coming to Nevada
vanzack send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook | My Sportsbook: Pinnacle Sports |
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#26
Posted: 10/20/2012 5:22:38 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by vanzack:

And I didnt even mention the tracking / tax implications for a large bettor who uses a single account number on US soil.....

Pete -

I would love to hear your thoughts on this one too.

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#27
Posted: 10/20/2012 5:58:54 PM
He seems to have skirted my earlier question as well.  As already mentioned, sites like Betfair and Matchbook have been doing this for years for ALL bettors, not just high rollers.  This sounds like another house edge to me.
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#28
Posted: 10/20/2012 8:16:14 PM

Maybe something got lost in the sauce. Your opinions are well received but I think you're advancing this far beyond what you may understand at this time.

Exchange wagering is a very successful way of doing business. All I'm doing is making it available in Nevada and changed the format to INCLUDE sportsbooks, which is exactly my business.

Nothing more. To have grave doubts about its success would be to argue the existing exchange formats. That's ridiculous. This will be available to whoever wants it. Even my clients, the sportsbooks don't have to use it. It's an additional tool they can use as it is for bettors who want a different line (at their own price of their choosing).

I'm not avoiding any issue. I'm just announcing exchange wagering in Nevada that's not been available before. Either enjoy it, or walk away.

Advantages? You're funding an account with a real brick and mortar legal establishment where you'll never have to worry your account will be confiscated or you can be prosecuted. I work with the law in my business. That's my job.

Pete

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#29
Posted: 10/20/2012 8:45:30 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by petek:

Maybe something got lost in the sauce. Your opinions are well received but I think you're advancing this far beyond what you may understand at this time.

Exchange wagering is a very successful way of doing business. All I'm doing is making it available in Nevada and changed the format to INCLUDE sportsbooks, which is exactly my business.

Nothing more. To have grave doubts about its success would be to argue the existing exchange formats. That's ridiculous. This will be available to whoever wants it. Even my clients, the sportsbooks don't have to use it. It's an additional tool they can use as it is for bettors who want a different line (at their own price of their choosing).

I'm not avoiding any issue. I'm just announcing exchange wagering in Nevada that's not been available before. Either enjoy it, or walk away.

Advantages? You're funding an account with a real brick and mortar legal establishment where you'll never have to worry your account will be confiscated or you can be prosecuted. I work with the law in my business. That's my job.

Pete

Good luck.

Sounds like you have it figured out.

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#30
Posted: 10/20/2012 8:50:41 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by petek:

Maybe something got lost in the sauce. Your opinions are well received but I think you're advancing this far beyond what you may understand at this time.

Exchange wagering is a very successful way of doing business. All I'm doing is making it available in Nevada and changed the format to INCLUDE sportsbooks, which is exactly my business.

Nothing more. To have grave doubts about its success would be to argue the existing exchange formats. That's ridiculous. This will be available to whoever wants it. Even my clients, the sportsbooks don't have to use it. It's an additional tool they can use as it is for bettors who want a different line (at their own price of their choosing).

I'm not avoiding any issue. I'm just announcing exchange wagering in Nevada that's not been available before. Either enjoy it, or walk away.

Advantages? You're funding an account with a real brick and mortar legal establishment where you'll never have to worry your account will be confiscated or you can be prosecuted. I work with the law in my business. That's my job.

Pete

Ah darn.  I cant resist....

Exchange wagering works because it is open to EVERYONE.  Thats an exchange, it is an open marketplace.

Your "exchange" is inherently unbalanced.  It clearly favors the sportsbooks for all of the reasons I list, and the ones you avoid to discuss.  My "grave doubts" dont contradict the concept and success of existing exchange formats - because what you are proposing doesnt even resemble existing exchange formats.  Your "exchange" is a one way marketplace.

I dont know why you seemingly refuse to acknowledge this - but I wish you nothing but success.  I would like nothing more than to be proven wrong.

 

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#31
Posted: 10/21/2012 12:27:51 AM

vanzack,

I see where you are missing some angles. In your first question, you fail to realize that your $100,000 offer is just one of thousands of offers on both sides of a game on the VPN. Any SB could take your offer and match it to $100,000 worth of offers on the other team right on the site, irregardless of action at the book. Your offer is easily taken any time of the week by any book. I guess you assumed there were absolutely no offers on the other team whatsoever on the VPN. Possible, but improbable.

On your second point, I think we're actually in agreement and not far off from each other. I don't expect any offer to be too far off the current line. Mostly shaded by the money line, but depending on the nature of the game, a point differential is nothing to be so miffed about, especially if its a college football game and the spread is 20+ points or higher. Really, a bookmaker is going to be scared to take -24 when he has -25 1/2 at his book? I think you underestimate aggressive large limit bookies.

Your third point about trust factor. I'm missing your point. Trust about what? I'm not making light of anything, I'm just confused as to what point you are exactly making.

Any form of wagering like this offers the gambler an opportunity to grab a line of his/her choice. That is not available here in Nevada yet. That's what I'm giving them.

Maybe this is not for you on an assortment of levels, but we do have a market for this. Please read my very first sentence I wrote you in my very first post to you. "This is NOT for the average American gambler". I never said it was from the beginning so you're fighting your own words trying to make sense of something I never intimated.

Pete

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#32
Posted: 10/21/2012 1:26:45 AM
Pete,

Am I understanding that I could sell points for + juice on all bets as long as my offer was fair from a value standpoint?

So instead of betting the Browns at +2.5 tomorrow I could make an offer of Browns -2.5 at + money and someone may take it?


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#33
Posted: 10/21/2012 1:28:40 AM
I think its silly we have to lay -110 juice here in NV fwiw, anything that will attempt to reduce that has my support.
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#34
Posted: 10/21/2012 1:34:36 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by petek:

Hi. Pete Korner here, owner of The Sports Club, Nevada’s largest Oddsmaking Firm.

Just want to throw an idea that’s possibly coming down the road and see what the general feeling would be with bettors. After three years, I just received my US Patent for a new way for Nevadans (or those visiting Nevada) to bet on sports. It’s a take-off of what’s known as exchange wagering but in this version, players (bettors) can only make offers while my clients (the licensed sportsbooks in Nevada) are the only ones who can accept an offer.

I think it’s a win-win-win situation but would like your take. This came out of situations my clients face every week. There are three elements that I think everyone will be satisfied.

First, sportsbooks sometimes need another option, besides the walk-up traffic, to generate more handle. A separate pool of offers on both sides of a game can create a safe way for books to balance action and take the risk out of a game or day. Also, they can cherry pick offers on both sides of a game and cut a profit with zero risk. The books will also have the ability to lay off to other sportsbooks, something they’ve never had the ability to do.

Second, this is great for bettors of all kinds. Think of it, you can now get the line you want at odds you want without shopping around. Create middles for yourself with offers that will be seen not by one sportsbook, but pretty much the entire family of Nevada sportsbooks. Nevada will be “the place” to plunk down a million-dollar bet as close to 20 hubs can take part or all of the offer.  And let’s be real, if you’re a bookie in any city, wouldn’t you jump at something like this where you can lay off your money and balance the action as well? (get a friend in Nevada quick).

I can tell you right now after talking to many of the directors here in the state, some will be pretty aggressive in snatching up offers if they’re anywhere close to their current lines at their books.

Thirdly, this will be a boon for the state with handle rising possible two, three or four times in the near future. Revenues will be much higher and I’m sure the state of Nevada will like that to tax.

Investigations, approvals, security systems, all of that stuff is being handled right now. You will have to be in Nevada to do this but you don’t have to be a resident, just within the borders when placing an offer. It'll be secured by a VPN.

Comments good and bad are welcome!

 

Pete Korner


Like Van said, you're not offering much to anyone other than the people already in Vegas and presumably playing as a professional and paying professional taxes. However, I'm getting the feeling you're hinting that this COULD be more than that. 

I only have only one question..

Does "within the borders" include using a mobile device based out of Nevada? For example, a phone with an area code beginning with 702? If that's the case, you have something here. 


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#35
Posted: 10/21/2012 1:34:41 AM

I don't think that would be an offer that would be taken. I think if you're a bettor trying to get the best of the number, you'll have an opportunity to see how far off the line you can make an offer but don't expect a bookmaker to be that aggressive.

Pete

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#36
Posted: 10/21/2012 1:43:28 AM
How far off am I in suggesting this model sounds like matchbook except instead of a global exchange its only open to the books with each other and gamblers with the books?


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#37
Posted: 10/21/2012 1:44:03 AM

Hello Mr. Korner,  

Currently, do you have any employment opportunities available? I am very interested in becoming a part of your Oddsmaking firm. 

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#38
Posted: 10/21/2012 8:57:20 AM

walktheline,

Yes. You can play it on mostly anything.

Pete

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#39
Posted: 10/21/2012 8:59:59 AM

vegasrebel417,

You're right on.

 

knicks031,

Send a resume to my website with CONTACT US. Always looking for talented people. (www.esportclub.com)

Pete

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#40
Posted: 10/21/2012 9:51:12 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by vegasrebel417:

How far off am I in suggesting this model sounds like matchbook except instead of a global exchange its only open to the books with each other and gamblers with the books?


Nah - not much like Matchbook.

Think about it - how will a gambler know what a true market is?  He doesnt see the other offers, so he doesnt really know where to price his offer.  This is another advantage for the SB in this model.

I want to bet 10K on the Jets-3.  The Jets are currently -3 -110 and the Ravens are +3 -110 on the other side.  How do I know where to price my offer if I cant see what is out there?  At Matchbook or Betfair, you see the offers out there - you see that the current midpoint is Jets -3 -102 because there are offers out there on the Jets -103 and the Ravens +101.

But without that visibility, it gives the books every advantage to maximize their spread.

Look - if people use this and Petes company does great with this - super.  I just think Pete is severely overestimating the ignorance of people who bet decent size wagers.  Everything about this model is slanted towards the SB.  I am one of the people he says would benefit from this and as described I would never use this - and I dont think I am unique.

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%^$%
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#41
Posted: 10/21/2012 10:33:05 AM
Briefly:

I agree w/vanzack on most points, chiefly being is that the bet is one way. I also agree w/him that most bettors don't care about reduced juice. However, I do. Petek, please advise what you believe the vig (hold) will be. IMO, if it's not 1% or less (obviously I am only referring to small/average bets), it's a joke, since, at times at other exchanges in the past, you could even get the vig if someone took your offer.

I must also add, good luck w/that idea of being able to bet from a pc "but only w/in the NV borders". There are probably already a million teen hackers who cracked this before it's even coming out.




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#42
Posted: 10/21/2012 11:09:47 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by %^$%:

Briefly:

I agree w/vanzack on most points, chiefly being is that the bet is one way. I also agree w/him that most bettors don't care about reduced juice. However, I do. Petek, please advise what you believe the vig (hold) will be. IMO, if it's not 1% or less (obviously I am only referring to small/average bets), it's a joke, since, at times at other exchanges in the past, you could even get the vig if someone took your offer.

I must also add, good luck w/that idea of being able to bet from a pc "but only w/in the NV borders". There are probably already a million teen hackers who cracked this before it's even coming out.





That's the point, I think.

Pete, I understand that you can play from "almost anything." What I was referring to is how are you going to determine where a wager was placed from? 

If it's from a computer, it's obviously going to be from an IP address. As far as mobile devices, how are you going to determine that? That's why I asked specifically about the area code of the phone number. What I'm gathering is that it is hypothetically possible for a non-Vegas resident to use this service, being held responsible for their own actions of course.
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#43
Posted: 10/21/2012 5:05:53 PM
There are already 3 mobile betting apps legal in the NV borders that I can use via Iphone (Cantor, William Hill, Stations Sports Connection)


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#44
Posted: 10/21/2012 5:19:27 PM

many of us have absolutely no interest in working "with the law"--that's why we gamble off-shore, and would continue to do so even if congress allowed nevada to adapt internet wagering.

we want to become like obama and romney ands screw over the taxman.

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#45
Posted: 10/21/2012 10:04:02 PM

Nevada's about twenty five years behind the rest of the world when it comes to sports betting. That's because it's run by a gaming commission that doesn't know the first thing about gambling and the sports book operators don't know the first thing about sports and even less about sports betting.

I know locals in Las Vegas that write more action in one day than the sportsbooks in the state of Nevada write in a whole week. This new form of wagering will have zero impact on sports betting in the state of Nevada. None.

 

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#46
Posted: 10/23/2012 6:50:35 PM

Wow! Such despise and hatred from posters! Nothing has changed in the last 3 years I see. LOL. That's OK, I'm used to critical remarks and take nothing personally because your rants are against the system I have, not me....I hope!

I need for everyone to understand something I should have clarified at the beginning. I'm in no position to give a lot of details until I get the OK from the Gaming Control Board. I don't want to jump the gun because approvals are pending and I don't want to be presumptuous in thinking anything is a lock to get this underway in a timely manner. Gaming works on their schedule, not ours. And that's the way we do things in Nevada.

First, no one's out "to get you". This is an acceptable way of sports wagering and there's advantages for everyone, not just the sportsbooks. This is simply another form of exchange wagering. I set it up this way because there is a need. I know this because I'm in the middle of 17 sportsbook hubs in this state and this "separate pool" would be great for a lot of situations. You're blasting a system you haven't even seen yet. All I'm asking is what you think of exchange wagering in Nevada? For most of you, it probably won't mean a thing because you won't be able to play.

Geez, why all the hate filled responses? I don't mind someone saying its an idea that they don't like but a reason why would have been nicer. Not these hack job, back-seat responses to something you haven't even seen yet. Is this the norm for introducing something new to the system and a little different from the other exchange companies?

I personally know this has a market. I understand you don't have my 26 years of experience as an oddsmaker in this state and contacts to the many sportsbooks and excellent Directors who run them. You don't have my perspective. But relax, all I'm asking is if you like the idea of exchange wagering or not? If not, why?

Pete

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#47
Posted: 10/23/2012 6:56:27 PM

walktheline,

It's going to be very tough to hack this system, if at all. The Gaming Control Board likes what it sees in our security system and the company we're using is a global resource. Simply having a proxy server in the state has no shot of getting into our VPN.

Pete

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#48
Posted: 10/23/2012 7:01:00 PM

nick69,

Your response is 25 years old.

Pete

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#49
Posted: 10/23/2012 7:09:30 PM

fadeonly,

You said I skirted your previous question above so I looked back at your original question. What does exchange wagering offer you that you don't already have? I can't answer that until you tell me all of the places you bet at. If none of them are with a sports exchange company, I offer you many reasons in my original opening post.

Pete

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#50
Posted: 10/23/2012 7:34:07 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by petek:

Wow! Such despise and hatred from posters! Nothing has changed in the last 3 years I see. LOL. That's OK, I'm used to critical remarks and take nothing personally because your rants are against the system I have, not me....I hope!

I need for everyone to understand something I should have clarified at the beginning. I'm in no position to give a lot of details until I get the OK from the Gaming Control Board. I don't want to jump the gun because approvals are pending and I don't want to be presumptuous in thinking anything is a lock to get this underway in a timely manner. Gaming works on their schedule, not ours. And that's the way we do things in Nevada.

First, no one's out "to get you". This is an acceptable way of sports wagering and there's advantages for everyone, not just the sportsbooks. This is simply another form of exchange wagering. I set it up this way because there is a need. I know this because I'm in the middle of 17 sportsbook hubs in this state and this "separate pool" would be great for a lot of situations. You're blasting a system you haven't even seen yet. All I'm asking is what you think of exchange wagering in Nevada? For most of you, it probably won't mean a thing because you won't be able to play.

Geez, why all the hate filled responses? I don't mind someone saying its an idea that they don't like but a reason why would have been nicer. Not these hack job, back-seat responses to something you haven't even seen yet. Is this the norm for introducing something new to the system and a little different from the other exchange companies?

I personally know this has a market. I understand you don't have my 26 years of experience as an oddsmaker in this state and contacts to the many sportsbooks and excellent Directors who run them. You don't have my perspective. But relax, all I'm asking is if you like the idea of exchange wagering or not? If not, why?

Pete

Pete -

Once again - with all due respect - if you KNOW there is a market for this, and your 26 years of experience and contacts in the industry assure you that this is a great idea - then why are you soliciting opinions on a sports gambling site?

Seems kind of strange to me that you would actually value the opinions of potential users rather than accusing them of not having the experience you have or an understanding of what your product is. 

Go build it and see if they come.  My guess is that your 26 years of experience dont really relate to the person on the other side of the counter - because thats where I have 26 years of experience and is also where you have failed to adequately satisfy my concerns with your product - and from my fairly extensive list of contacts on my side of the counter - they would have the exact same concerns.

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