Messages

Forum Index : Gaming Industry - US : Messages Page 1 of 4  1 2 3 4  
Author: [Gaming Industry - US] Topic: New form of sports wagering coming to Nevada
petek send a private message View Space | Friends | Playbook |
petek
Participation Meter
Prospect
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 25
Location:
#1
Posted: 10/20/2012 11:35:21 AM

Hi. Pete Korner here, owner of The Sports Club, Nevada’s largest Oddsmaking Firm.

Just want to throw an idea that’s possibly coming down the road and see what the general feeling would be with bettors. After three years, I just received my US Patent for a new way for Nevadans (or those visiting Nevada) to bet on sports. It’s a take-off of what’s known as exchange wagering but in this version, players (bettors) can only make offers while my clients (the licensed sportsbooks in Nevada) are the only ones who can accept an offer.

I think it’s a win-win-win situation but would like your take. This came out of situations my clients face every week. There are three elements that I think everyone will be satisfied.

First, sportsbooks sometimes need another option, besides the walk-up traffic, to generate more handle. A separate pool of offers on both sides of a game can create a safe way for books to balance action and take the risk out of a game or day. Also, they can cherry pick offers on both sides of a game and cut a profit with zero risk. The books will also have the ability to lay off to other sportsbooks, something they’ve never had the ability to do.

Second, this is great for bettors of all kinds. Think of it, you can now get the line you want at odds you want without shopping around. Create middles for yourself with offers that will be seen not by one sportsbook, but pretty much the entire family of Nevada sportsbooks. Nevada will be “the place” to plunk down a million-dollar bet as close to 20 hubs can take part or all of the offer.  And let’s be real, if you’re a bookie in any city, wouldn’t you jump at something like this where you can lay off your money and balance the action as well? (get a friend in Nevada quick).

I can tell you right now after talking to many of the directors here in the state, some will be pretty aggressive in snatching up offers if they’re anywhere close to their current lines at their books.

Thirdly, this will be a boon for the state with handle rising possible two, three or four times in the near future. Revenues will be much higher and I’m sure the state of Nevada will like that to tax.

Investigations, approvals, security systems, all of that stuff is being handled right now. You will have to be in Nevada to do this but you don’t have to be a resident, just within the borders when placing an offer. It'll be secured by a VPN.

Comments good and bad are welcome!

 

Pete Korner

quote
2169 send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook | My Sportsbook: Las Vegas Hotel and Casino |
2169
Participation Meter
Banned
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 10748
Location: Massachusetts
#2
Posted: 10/20/2012 12:04:12 PM
Will it ever go online? 
quote
petek send a private message View Space | Friends | Playbook |
petek
Participation Meter
Prospect
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 25
Location:
#3
Posted: 10/20/2012 12:07:23 PM

You can access it from anywhere (PC or otherwise) on our VPN as long as you are within Nevada's borders.

Pete

quote
vanzack send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook | My Sportsbook: Pinnacle Sports |
vanzack
Participation Meter
Legend
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 50447
Location: Equatorial
              Guinea
#4
Posted: 10/20/2012 12:10:17 PM

Welcome to online gambling circa 2002.

Leave it to Vegas to be 10 years behind the times.  This is a non-event to the average American gambler. 

quote
petek send a private message View Space | Friends | Playbook |
petek
Participation Meter
Prospect
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 25
Location:
#5
Posted: 10/20/2012 12:19:10 PM

vanzack,

You are correct. This is not for the average American gambler. Nevada behind the times? For sure, but that's what regulatory environments face sometimes. But this is new in the sense that anyone can walk up to even the smallest sportsbook in the state and plunk down as much as you want and they may be able to take the wager where they WOULDN'T before. Isn't the global complaint about Nevada is they won't take a wager? Well, now go right ahead and post it.

Pete

quote
si1ly send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook |
si1ly
Participation Meter
Banned
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 12061
Location: Florida
#6
Posted: 10/20/2012 12:23:03 PM
It's a step in the right direction if nothing else.

quote
petek send a private message View Space | Friends | Playbook |
petek
Participation Meter
Prospect
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 25
Location:
#7
Posted: 10/20/2012 12:30:55 PM

If you're a bettor who plays every day (be it for $10, $100 or $1000) wouldn't you want to get the best of the line with every play? Tired of laying -110 each way? Here's your outlet to get what you want. You're never late on a steam play. Just post what you want and there's an excellent chance it will get picked up by one of 20 sportsbook hubs in the state.

Pete

quote
vanzack send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook | My Sportsbook: Pinnacle Sports |
vanzack
Participation Meter
Legend
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 50447
Location: Equatorial
              Guinea
#8
Posted: 10/20/2012 12:41:10 PM
Pete,

Hang around. Watxhing games. But have long response coming.
Posted using a mobile device.
quote
petek send a private message View Space | Friends | Playbook |
petek
Participation Meter
Prospect
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 25
Location:
#9
Posted: 10/20/2012 12:44:22 PM

vanzack,

It's a long day for me. I'll be around for sure. Your comments (good and critical) will be very welcome and please ask questions! Thx.

Pete

quote
DiscoD69 send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook |
DiscoD69
Participation Meter
Captain
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 7897
Location: Canada
#10
Posted: 10/20/2012 12:51:58 PM
quote
FadeOnly send a private message View Space | Friends | Playbook |
FadeOnly
Participation Meter
All-Star
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 14159
Location: Pennsylvania
#11
Posted: 10/20/2012 1:02:05 PM
I currently play online and locally.  I do not live in Nevada.  What can this offer that I already don't have the capabilities of doing?  
quote
petek send a private message View Space | Friends | Playbook |
petek
Participation Meter
Prospect
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 25
Location:
#12
Posted: 10/20/2012 1:06:57 PM

FadeOnly,

You're never prisoner to any line. This type of process allows you to bet only the number and odds you select. You always get the best of a situation. As long as your offer isn't so far off the current consensus, there's a pretty good chance it will be scooped up by one of the sportsbooks.

Pete

quote
WilliamMunny send a private message View Space | Friends | Playbook |
WilliamMunny
Participation Meter
Veteran
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1926
Location: Maryland
#13
Posted: 10/20/2012 1:12:12 PM

when will vegas have online gambling. The feds are open to it and some states have legalized online gaming. Once the feds shut down the offshore boys I believe it will set up nicely for a regulated taxed online gaming industry to prosper

 

thoughts

quote
redbook1 send a private message View Space | Friends | Playbook |
redbook1
Participation Meter
Covers Rehab
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1033
Location:
#14
Posted: 10/20/2012 1:16:38 PM
what have you been doing since 2009?
quote
petek send a private message View Space | Friends | Playbook |
petek
Participation Meter
Prospect
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 25
Location:
#15
Posted: 10/20/2012 1:36:55 PM

Gaming and federal regulators have been moving forward but slowly. Casino style gaming will come first particularly because the stigma of sports wagering still has a grip on the moral majority. Right now, I'm interested in launching all sorts of technologies in Nevada and any other state that can break through the federal grip. It's maddening for all of us interested in sports wagering, but when it comes, it'll come on with tremendous popularity and windfall for the governing bodies.

Since 2009, I've been trying to keep The Sports Club the leading oddsmaking firm in Nevada which I've done since 2005 and cultivating new ideas to get into the public light like this one. More to come afterwards.

Pete

quote
vanzack send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook | My Sportsbook: Pinnacle Sports |
vanzack
Participation Meter
Legend
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 50447
Location: Equatorial
              Guinea
#16
Posted: 10/20/2012 1:52:07 PM

Pete -

Lets lift up the blanket and look at this a little bit closer....

First - this is not anything that will help the average guy.  We briefly talked about this earlier - but the average covers poster does not live in Nevada, and couldnt really care less about saving on juice.  Yes - you read that right.  I too am amazed at this fact, and it took a long time for this simple fact to sink in - but the vast majority of recreational gamblers just dont care what price they pay for a bet - and in essence dont care about profitability either.  They only care about action.  They care simply about getting a bet down. 

So lets move on and talk about your market - a very small market - people who "live" in Nevada and who want to use a service such as yours...

These are the realities as I see them:

1.  You write that this platform will help people get in "million dollar wagers" - or at the very least remove the complaint that Vegas "doesnt want to take real bets".  How is your platform going to entice a SB to take a real bet?  You only allow the SB to match an offer.  So if a SB had a 10K limit at -110, why are they going to take a 100K offer at -105?  I dont understand that.  The ONLY way they will do this is if they have 100K in offers on the other side.  Your platform doesnt remove the corporate structure and mentality of these SB's, it simply gives them better visibility to increase their handle while being just as conservative.  So that 100K offer at -105 will sit and sit and sit until they can match the other side.  And lets be honest - that isnt going to happen very often with your limited marketplace.

2.  Anyone who bets of size - whether they are in Nevada or not - CAN ALREADY BET AT REDUCED JUICE WITH RELATIVE EASE.  What does this do that many online options already do for them?  With the issue discussed above in point #1, and in points to come - why would an above vegas limit bettor choose to use this service when they know that they will only be matched if it is in the SB's best conservative interest?  Any bet that you can match, could most likely get matched at Pinnacle, Betfair, or Matchbook at a lower price with no hassle.

3.  The SB's can profile the players and move lines because of it.  Lets take an example - someone who lives in vegas - bets or creates steam - and bets above limits.  So here comes account #133854 putting up 200K offers on your portal for NYJ -3 -105.  The books have already identified this account to be a winner, or at the very least a steam creator - so what has this done?  Effectively - every book is now going to let that offer sit but either move the line on air or at the first sign of real action - be able to move quickly.  So what you have done is help the books anticipate steam - and take the only benefit right out of the bettors hands.

So in the end - the subset you are trying to appeal to - the bigger bettors who Vegas limits eliminate from their market - are the exact bettors who would avoid this like the plague.  Sure - you will have the lazy vegas guy who now can bet his 100 bucks a game without leaving his couch - but from what you wrote - that is not your target or who you think you are going to attract.  The bigger bettors you seek would give up their only advantage by having to make offers that are visible and not mandatory by the SB's.

I dont see how your platform suddenly changes the SB fear of taking large wagers.  Just because your platform is there, Harrahs isnt suddenly going to become loose at their SB - especially for a lower house hold!  Nope - thats not the draw for the SB - the draw for the SB is that they can MATCH action BOTH sides at a time - "just think of it, you SB's no longer need to take a big bet on one side and wait for the other side to get bet - you dont have to take any action until you have BOTH sides covered!" - great for the SB - terrible for the bettor.  And it wont take long for the bettor to realize this, and then you have a marketplace of 100 dollar beer drinking covers members and your handle doesnt go up at all.

Tell me where I go wrong with this.

quote
vanzack send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook | My Sportsbook: Pinnacle Sports |
vanzack
Participation Meter
Legend
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 50447
Location: Equatorial
              Guinea
#17
Posted: 10/20/2012 1:53:09 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by petek:

FadeOnly,

You're never prisoner to any line. This type of process allows you to bet only the number and odds you select. You always get the best of a situation. As long as your offer isn't so far off the current consensus, there's a pretty good chance it will be scooped up by one of the sportsbooks.

Pete

I dont buy this.

If this was true, they would be offering it now.

quote
vanzack send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook | My Sportsbook: Pinnacle Sports |
vanzack
Participation Meter
Legend
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 50447
Location: Equatorial
              Guinea
#18
Posted: 10/20/2012 2:05:20 PM

And I didnt even mention the tracking / tax implications for a large bettor who uses a single account number on US soil.....

quote
vanzack send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook | My Sportsbook: Pinnacle Sports |
vanzack
Participation Meter
Legend
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 50447
Location: Equatorial
              Guinea
#19
Posted: 10/20/2012 2:06:40 PM

Maybe Norwich can hold on here for 15 more minutes....

quote
vanzack send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook | My Sportsbook: Pinnacle Sports |
vanzack
Participation Meter
Legend
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 50447
Location: Equatorial
              Guinea
#20
Posted: 10/20/2012 2:07:12 PM
Wrong thread for post #20 above - sorry about that....
quote
topshow send a private message View Space | Friends | Playbook |
topshow
Participation Meter
Prospect
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 332
Location: United Kingdom
#21
Posted: 10/20/2012 2:11:36 PM
we in the uk have had a betting exchange called betfair for about 15 years now a very good way to bet for those who cant bet with bookmakers (barred for winning etc etc) allowing you to bet with other members of the public who have a different opinion to yourself
quote
vanzack send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook | My Sportsbook: Pinnacle Sports |
vanzack
Participation Meter
Legend
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 50447
Location: Equatorial
              Guinea
#22
Posted: 10/20/2012 2:16:51 PM
QUOTE

Originally Posted by topshow:

we in the uk have had a betting exchange called betfair for about 15 years now a very good way to bet for those who cant bet with bookmakers (barred for winning etc etc) allowing you to bet with other members of the public who have a different opinion to yourself

Fortunately for you, you live in a free country.

If you live in Iran, North Korea, or the USA - you are unable to bet on sports unless it is Jai Alai or horse racing.

But anybody who bets seriously (which is who the OP is trying to attract) are citizens of the world for the purposes of sports betting already.

quote
petek send a private message View Space | Friends | Playbook |
petek
Participation Meter
Prospect
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 25
Location:
#23
Posted: 10/20/2012 2:44:40 PM

vanzack,

Great post and I will answer them in just a bit.

Pete

quote
petek send a private message View Space | Friends | Playbook |
petek
Participation Meter
Prospect
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 25
Location:
#24
Posted: 10/20/2012 3:56:30 PM

vanzack,

1) This is an instant for the sportsbooks at the genesis of this idea. When will a sportsbook take an offer that doesn't match? Easy.

Example: Sportsbook X is up for the day entering the last game of the night. They're so heavy on one side of the game that a loss takes away most to all of their day's profits. The director decides to take his win and run. The director will balance the action despite the juice difference and take away the decision making. At most he loses a sparse amount on that juice difference but comes out big for the day.

2) Reduced juice is only one aspect of a betting line. Maybe everyone is at -3 and you want -2 1/2 at whatever juice. That's now a possibility. And now, this will be legal for Nevada residents and visitors. The options you listed are not legal in Nevada.

3) Books won't have knowledge of who's putting up the offer. Likewise, the bettor won't know who matched theirs. Hence, no profiling! Matched offers are by need, nothing else. Totally unbiased.

Matching bets now comes from two venues for the sportsbooks allowing plenty of more action. If someone comes up to the counter and wants to place a wager above their normal limits, the SB can now look at this additional pool of wagers and can take the wager over the counter and match it through the VPN.

SB's in Nevada will more likely take a large football wager at the beginning of the week where they can work to balance that action over the entire week. When a whale comes to town and wants to plunk a big wager 30 minutes before kickoff, the SB can immediately look to see if they can match this and not risk an entire day on one wager so late in the week. Options like this are great for the books and allow bettors what they want.

Cantor Gaming, upon their arrival in Nevada spoke of increasing volume and settling for smaller holds so I beg to differ on that. More handle will increase profits at a lesser hold percentage. No one has a problem with that here.

Pete

quote
vanzack send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook | My Sportsbook: Pinnacle Sports |
vanzack
Participation Meter
Legend
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 50447
Location: Equatorial
              Guinea
#25
Posted: 10/20/2012 5:16:50 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by petek:

vanzack,

1) This is an instant for the sportsbooks at the genesis of this idea. When will a sportsbook take an offer that doesn't match? Easy.

Example: Sportsbook X is up for the day entering the last game of the night. They're so heavy on one side of the game that a loss takes away most to all of their day's profits. The director decides to take his win and run. The director will balance the action despite the juice difference and take away the decision making. At most he loses a sparse amount on that juice difference but comes out big for the day.

2) Reduced juice is only one aspect of a betting line. Maybe everyone is at -3 and you want -2 1/2 at whatever juice. That's now a possibility. And now, this will be legal for Nevada residents and visitors. The options you listed are not legal in Nevada.

3) Books won't have knowledge of who's putting up the offer. Likewise, the bettor won't know who matched theirs. Hence, no profiling! Matched offers are by need, nothing else. Totally unbiased.

Matching bets now comes from two venues for the sportsbooks allowing plenty of more action. If someone comes up to the counter and wants to place a wager above their normal limits, the SB can now look at this additional pool of wagers and can take the wager over the counter and match it through the VPN.

SB's in Nevada will more likely take a large football wager at the beginning of the week where they can work to balance that action over the entire week. When a whale comes to town and wants to plunk a big wager 30 minutes before kickoff, the SB can immediately look to see if they can match this and not risk an entire day on one wager so late in the week. Options like this are great for the books and allow bettors what they want.

Cantor Gaming, upon their arrival in Nevada spoke of increasing volume and settling for smaller holds so I beg to differ on that. More handle will increase profits at a lesser hold percentage. No one has a problem with that here.

Pete

Pete-

With all due respect - you totally avoided the issues.

1.  You give one example of why a SB might want to take more action.  But lets take the other 99% of the time.  If I put a 100K offer up on Wed for the current line at -105, NOBODY is going to touch it.  If I put up a 100K offer 2 hours before gametime, and no book has an inbalance that would be favorable for them to take it - NOBODY is going to take it.

The ONLY scenario that would benefit the bettor putting out the offer is if a book happens to have an inbalance - and even in that case - doesnt it stand to reason that that book would lay that off by themselves?  In other words - if your platform only allows books to accept the offers - then why would they wait for a gambler to hopefully put out an offer, when they could put out the offer themselves?

It doesnt make sense.

2.  Seriously?  Your answer is that someone wants to buy or sell points and your platform will allow them to do that?  Come on.  That is such a stretch.  So now your platforms market is buyers and sellers of points?  And you mean to tell me that SB's are going to somehow accept any offer that is not in line with their current buying and selling of points?  Sorry, I dont get this at all.

3.  So I understand, books wont know what account is putting up the offer?  That will be opaque?  You are going to have a serious trust issue with gamblers if this is the case - they arent going to believe you no matter what you tell them.

Sounds to me like what you are building here should already exist.  It sure sounds to me like a trading platform amongst SB's so they can lay off their business - between each other.  If this doesnt currently exist, and you are providing this service - that sounds fine.  But I still have yet to understand what you are offering the GAMBLER.

What is it exactly?  Who is your demographic?  If I am an above Vegas limit gambler - based on what I have written in this thread - what can you offer me?

Cantor gaming has been the most progressive in vegas.  But talk is cheap.  You can talk about legality all you want - the simple truth is that anyone who bets anywhere near vegas limits is betting offfshore too.  And if they are already betting offshore, they can get what you are offering easier and with more reliability already.

quote
Forum Index : Gaming Industry - US : Messages Page 1 of 4  1 2 3 4  
You have entered the forum as a GUEST. 
You must login/register to post or reply.