Industry in distress: How did it come to this?

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Author: [The Archives] Topic: Industry in distress: How did it come to this?
sharper45 PM sharper45
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Posted: 2/7/2007 1:34:55 PM
Great Article....hope that same thing doesn't happen in Canada. 
 
sharper45 PM sharper45
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Posted: 2/7/2007 1:36:47 PM
 How much Vegas 'grease' lubricated this law into coming.    Well done Las Vegas. 
Joe Public PM Joe Public
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Posted: 2/7/2007 2:18:01 PM
I've been out of town and just caught up to this thread, and first, it should be said that in a sea of unreadable articles around these parts, you did pen a good one, Joe.  Nice work.

This Joe always likes it when other Joes promote the good of the name.

That said, I don't want to be a wet blanket here either, but the Sunday Ticket idea smacks to me of one of those fan walkouts.  It's a good idea in theory, but it's going to fall apart in execution.  Not to be a d*ck, but I have the Ticket and I'm not going to cancel it, and I'm as upset about this thing as anybody. 

Sadly, the Ticket idea is one of those cutting off your nose to spite your face things.  Now, if you are one of many who doesn't care to watch the NFL without a bet on it and are going to cancel your subscription anyway, then, sure, all of you canceling on the same day is a nice gesture, but really I think that's going to be about it. 

Right now the NFL is the 800 lb. gorilla and, as mentioned above, the number of subscribers overall would swallow up the few hundred, even thousand or two that protest. 

The other thing I wonder about is this.  Do we really need publicity?

One of the things I agree with in the article, that I've been saying for some time, is that the promotion and advertising that specific companies have done has been a killer to us.  I personally want to beat the marketing department at Sportsbook.com with a blunt object for about 27 consecutive hours.  The stuff some of these companies have done is akin to having Vito stand outside a police station with a whiteboard asking for action it's that unbelievably stupid.

The truth is, it's easier politically and faux-morally to condemn gambling across the board and accept a fight against it, either tacitly or overtly, than to stand up for it.  In part because of the stigma, but also because again, as mentioned above, gamblers for the most part enjoy their anonymity.

But what gamblers have in this fight is money.  And money, in many ways in this country, is still speech (yes, I'm a liberal, and yes, I just said that). 

So, in my opinion, what we need to do is put that money to good use and get a lobby.  The poker players--who some sports guys blame for all of this--aren't our enemy, and nor are we theirs.  Same with the horse folk.  There should be room for us all on the same bus because once one of us gets thrown in the dock, there's no reason they won't eventually come for the others whenever they feel like it. 

I think it's time we use our money to find our voice and pay for democracy the way all the other lobbies do. 

As the article says, we're at an impasse, but that doesn't mean the only way to go from here is up.  If we do nothing, there's a very good chance that impasse becomes isolation, that isolation becomes illegality, and then everyone who doesn't want to drive 600 miles or fly four hours to a corporate casino somewhere suddenly becomes a criminal.
THAKZZA PM THAKZZA
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Posted: 2/7/2007 3:08:49 PM
I'm still waiting for tha gov't to actually prove that they can police this without throwing half it's citizens in jail for nothing.  Especially when their dealing with spending another zillion dollars on the war in a Iraq.  Oh my bad that's not as important as stopping online poker
Breaker PM Breaker
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Posted: 2/8/2007 5:46:35 AM
Don't know if this is gambling related, but I wouldn't be surprised:
 
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070208/SPORTS0102/702080396/1127
NBA in general has experienced a dip -- games on ABC are down 16.1 percent, and TNT's ratings fell 7.1 percent.

ESPN's numbers also have been flat.

ZonaCats PM ZonaCats
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Posted: 2/8/2007 2:00:11 PM
What about hitting the US where it hurts? It's economy. If we withdrew all of our funds and transferred them to foreign financial firms, if the amount was large enough, if enough people followed suit, what would the US do?

I'm talking about savings accounts, 401K plans, stock, bonds, etc.... and invest in foreign resources. There will be transfer fees but that's the price we would pay to make a statement.

If we can't choose to do what we want with our OWN money in the US, lets move it elsewhere (not necessarily to fund our gambling) and make a statement.

10,000 people moving $50,000 each is half a billion. That has to get their attention......right?
THAKZZA PM THAKZZA
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Posted: 2/8/2007 2:13:49 PM
Oh it's tha 12 billion that tha industry was bringin in that got their attention in tha first place.
cd329 PM cd329
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Posted: 2/8/2007 5:37:16 PM
Sorry but i totally disagree with whoever wrote this piece about why online gambling got banned.
It got banned for 3  reasons, and it has nothing to do with polticians being made weak in the publics eye.  Hell most people in this country dont even know about online gambling.
heres the 3 reasons, whether you agree or not.
 
1. the mob was losing billions of dollars to the offshore books, that money once belonged to them.  They werent going to sit back and keep watching their gambling empire got slaughtered to the offshores.
2.the indian casinos are a major player in getting this bill passed.  with online gambling banned, you will see all kinds of new bettors joining the casino ranks  Read the bill, it even gives the damn indian tribal police the power to help enforce the ban.
3. horse racing industry.  they need new gamblers to survie and hopefully all these new addcited gamblers we have in our country, will be looking for things to bet on, thus maybe making them into horse gamblers, in turn saving the racing industry for the wealthy who control this game.
This ban is about money and whos pockets need to be filled, has nothing to do with making politicians looking weak.
People say why didnt our politicians just make it legal and collect the taxes, well folks if you dont know the real reason for that which i will explain, the first thing you need to do is go learn how our counrty operates.
If politicians made it legal then they wouldnt collect the huge friggin kickbacks they are getting from the 3 groups above to make it illegal. You see our government would just be collecting all the taxes, thus bypassing the politicians from actually making any money from gambling being illegal.
There is always more money to be made for people in power {politicians} to make something illegal, then it is to make it legal.  Why do you think drugs arent legal in our country? Cause theres more money, jobs and power to be made keeping it illegal.
Some parts of the artcile were okay, but for the most part the author is pretty clueless as to how things work in government
rushnrv PM rushnrv
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Posted: 2/8/2007 10:25:49 PM
I've been an onling gambler for a number of years, and a member of covers as well. I've never been much of a forum reader or poster, but I believe this issue warrants something different.  I've read most of this post, and I agree that most of the ideas brought up are good ones (NFL Sunday Ticket boycott, orginization of rallies, etc.)  I believe that if we could get everyone on the same page, it would have a great impact and help our cause significantly.

I believe we should stop talking about what to do, and actually do something.  Everyone who reads this post should write their congressman. Let your views be heard, construct a well written letter that shows we are not "criminals" but are American's who feel our right to live as we choose is being infringed on.  The link below will take you to a site that listed all Representatives who took part in the vote on the bill in question.  Find out how your politician voted.

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=h2006-363

I'll be finishing the letter I've been working on this weekend.  If you want a copy to send to your representative please give me a way to deliver it to you, and I'll be happy to send you a copy, and make the process easier for all.

I think organization is a brilliant idea to protect our rights as free Americans, however, that takes time.  Why not do something now?


cd329 PM cd329
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Posted: 2/8/2007 11:17:37 PM
You can write and send all the letters you want to your politicians, its not gonna change anything.  Theres to many dollars being funneled into politicians pockets for them to care about what us online gamblers want.  You see if this was effecting a larger portion of the people in the country like say banning alcohol, then getting on the politicians case would work.  You gotta remember only online gambling has been banned.
So all the people that go to casinos, play bingo, buy lottery tickets, go to the racetrack etc etc, they are all still able to do their form of gambling, so they dont give a rats behind about us sports bettors. 
Those 3 groups i talked about up above have to many dollars to make sure the politicians do what they want done and not what we want done.
We arent gonna see legal online sports betting in this country for a very long time.  Maybe the indians will get involved, they certainly have the cash to pay the politicians off to allow it to happen.  Just look at all the indian casinos that we have in this country compared to regular casinos.  Reason for that is becuse of politicians getiing paid off to let them open up casinos.
THAKZZA PM THAKZZA
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Posted: 2/9/2007 1:57:45 AM
I actually agree with that cd329.  Bettors, and books have to show the gov't no matter what they do, they can't stop people from betting and books from providing a avenue to bet with.  That's how prohibition was brought down.  It just makes the gov't look good for passing that law (under everyone's noses I might add) when books and third parties pull out of the US market.  Besides, shouldn't the gov't actually bring charges against a bank or a person for online betting before everyone panics? 
rushnrv PM rushnrv
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Posted: 2/9/2007 9:14:33 AM
In all honesty, I know writing letters to representatives won't get a repeal of the law. There's two few of us, we don't have enough money, and there's more pressing issues at the current moment. However, I'm still going to write mine and I encourage others to do the same. When it comes down to it, I want my voice to atleast be heard; and writing a letter really doesn't take too much time, effort, or money from any of us.  
99club PM 99club
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Posted: 2/9/2007 8:45:02 PM
Besides writing your elected reps, you can post a message directly to the House subcommittee with jurisdiction here.

The Senate subcommittee that has jurisdiction is chaired by Sen. John Kerry. 

The full Senate committee over Kerry's subcommittee is chaired by Sen. Inouye from Hawaii.  Ever wonder why Hawaii is one of the two states that does not have any form of legalized gambling?  He's why.  He doesn't even let gambling lobbyists into his office.  He's a good man and I have great respect for him, but I disagree with him on this issue.

Garthvader PM Garthvader
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Posted: 2/11/2007 3:45:57 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by cd329:

Sorry but i totally disagree with whoever wrote this piece about why online gambling got banned.
It got banned for 3  reasons, and it has nothing to do with polticians being made weak in the publics eye.  Hell most people in this country dont even know about online gambling.
heres the 3 reasons, whether you agree or not.
 
1. the mob was losing billions of dollars to the offshore books, that money once belonged to them.  They werent going to sit back and keep watching their gambling empire got slaughtered to the offshores.
2.the indian casinos are a major player in getting this bill passed.  with online gambling banned, you will see all kinds of new bettors joining the casino ranks  Read the bill, it even gives the damn indian tribal police the power to help enforce the ban.
3. horse racing industry.  they need new gamblers to survie and hopefully all these new addcited gamblers we have in our country, will be looking for things to bet on, thus maybe making them into horse gamblers, in turn saving the racing industry for the wealthy who control this game.
This ban is about money and whos pockets need to be filled, has nothing to do with making politicians looking weak.
People say why didnt our politicians just make it legal and collect the taxes, well folks if you dont know the real reason for that which i will explain, the first thing you need to do is go learn how our counrty operates.
If politicians made it legal then they wouldnt collect the huge friggin kickbacks they are getting from the 3 groups above to make it illegal. You see our government would just be collecting all the taxes, thus bypassing the politicians from actually making any money from gambling being illegal.
There is always more money to be made for people in power {politicians} to make something illegal, then it is to make it legal.  Why do you think drugs arent legal in our country? Cause theres more money, jobs and power to be made keeping it illegal.
Some parts of the artcile were okay, but for the most part the author is pretty clueless as to how things work in government
 
Yah, this is the sad reality of it.  The govt sets the moral agenda and they are all so crooked.
bogieking PM bogieking
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Posted: 2/11/2007 7:23:57 PM
when the DOJ changes hands in 2008, the new administration will re-prioritize what they attack.  That will be the time to fix the situation.  As long as the Bushies/chritian fundys are in charge nothing is going to change.
Breaker PM Breaker
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Posted: 2/12/2007 5:31:10 AM
2009 might be the year, but that shouldn't stop us from laying the foundation right here right now.
Anyone from the Covers staff know what the status is?
JoeMacDonald PM JoeMacDonald
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Posted: 2/12/2007 9:50:37 AM
Update...

I haven't forgotten about this.

Right now, we are trying to figure out the best way for us, as a company, to proceed.

We are putting together a plan of action for us to begin following this, and similar, issues in the future. This way, we hope to do a better job of both keeping our readers informed, along with informing the larger public.

On that point, our marketing team did a fantastic job of disseminating this column. It got picked up by a number of blogs and made the Top 20 in a number of political blog/news trackers.

So already we can see that there is a certain amount of mainstream curiosity, if not outright interest, in this issue.

The one thing I think everybody above agrees upon is the need to play the political game and form (or support) a lobby or industry group, such as the Poker Players Alliance.

To that end, we are currently evaluating possibilities.

We should have a lot of this completed within a short period. Some new opinion pieces should also be posted soon.

Thanks for the participation!


northport PM northport
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Posted: 2/12/2007 9:54:11 AM
thanks for the update
Breaker PM Breaker
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Posted: 2/12/2007 3:02:58 PM
Excelent news, Joe, thanks!
taurus PM taurus
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Posted: 2/12/2007 6:57:57 PM
Let's keep this rolling. I think it's a long roll up a steep hill, but we have to start somewhere. Just remember, if there is one thing more important to our Congressmen and Senators than having their pockets lined, it's getting re-elected. Make sure you never vote again in favor of anyone who voted FOR the gambling bill. Make sure you vote for the other candidate. Go hold a campaign sign for the other candidate on astreet corner. Even donate money to hjis or her campaign. And go back to that earlier excellent post in this  thread and let the congressman or senator know that you disapprove of their vote on this issue if they voted in favor. My guy voted NO , but there are two reps in my small state who voted YEAH. I'm politely letting each of them know how I feel about their voting to restict my freedom.
Judger PM Judger
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Posted: 2/12/2007 10:49:28 PM
Joe, I sent an email message to service@coversexperts.com and asked that it be forwarded to you. I await your response with great anticipation.
 
Matador, I really like your idea of a single weekend NFL Ticket boycott and if it comes to fruition, I will run with it to the best of my ability. This grass roots concept has real legs, IMO. 
gman1962 PM gman1962
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Posted: 2/16/2007 5:23:13 PM
BOYCOTT THE NFL SPONSORS....all of them....Buy a different brand of beer, different car, truck, etc.....We can all live with Doritos and Coors light for a while.
 
The important thing is to STOP BUYING THEIR PRODUCTS...a couple of weeks of real boycotting and they will act. I promise.
 
I love football as much as the next guy...but without gambling...there would be no NFL as we know it.
taurus PM taurus
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Posted: 2/16/2007 9:06:22 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by gman1962:

BOYCOTT THE NFL SPONSORS....all of them....Buy a different brand of beer, different car, truck, etc.....We can all live with Doritos and Coors light for a while.
 
The important thing is to STOP BUYING THEIR PRODUCTS...a couple of weeks of real boycotting and they will act. I promise.
 
I love football as much as the next guy...but without gambling...there would be no NFL as we know it.
Very Nice.  But it is not going to get Congress to write a new law authorizing Internet Gambling.
THAKZZA PM THAKZZA
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Posted: 2/16/2007 10:33:06 PM
Well it's clear that tha gov't could care less what we think.  Otherwise tha bulshit law would not have gotten passed in tha first place.  But when yu have people who stand to gain tha most from online gambling being illegal (or at least hard to fund) funding girl behind politicans, what tha darn do yu expect?  I'm going to bet online.  I've made more doing it last year than I did workin a fuckin job, which is what tha gov't really doesn't like.  They want their undeserved 30%.  Anyway until they start busting down doors of regular people who do this in tha privacy of their homes, and get away with by convincing us that it's more important to bust a gambler than a terrorist, then darn em, I'll do what tha darn I wanna do.
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quote#100
Posted: 2/17/2007 10:10:05 AM
Here's a question for you....
 
Is Congress going to do anhything about the money that Netteller stole from me and thousands of others?
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