Unions

Question

Well, Just got back from work. I (as I have stated before), am a contract employee with the Post Office.

I am a city carrier and run about 1.5 routes a day.

I was very happy in my position. No benefits, but the pay ($22 an hour) made up for it.

Now the Postal Union. (a division of the AFL-CIO), has decided that I should be a union member, and be brought onto a career path. My overtime will be gone, the ability to go above and beyond will be gone, and my new rate of pay is $16.25

Fantastic. 27% pay decrease

Still no benefits.

But at least I have union representation.

With representation like this I can not afford to stay. I would make more money sitting on the couch collecting unemployment.

Thank you for justifying everything I have always thought about unions.

rick3117 · Answer

Well, Just got back from work. I (as I have stated before), am a contract employee with the Post Office.

I am a city carrier and run about 1.5 routes a day.

I was very happy in my position. No benefits, but the pay ($22 an hour) made up for it.

Now the Postal Union. (a division of the AFL-CIO), has decided that I should be a union member, and be brought onto a career path. My overtime will be gone, the ability to go above and beyond will be gone, and my new rate of pay is $16.25

Fantastic. 27% pay decrease

Still no benefits.

But at least I have union representation.

With representation like this I can not afford to stay. I would make more money sitting on the couch collecting unemployment.

Thank you for justifying everything I have always thought about unions.

rick3117 · Answer

That was typed in haste.

I do not know if I will leave yet.

Unemployment in WV = 445 a week. Plus I will not have to pay for daycare $125 a week. I can also go back to school which would be +220 a week in GI bill. for a grand total of $625 a week.

Or I could keep working for $640 a week, and have to pay child care @ $125 a week. For a grand total of $515 a week.

I know what the right thing to do is.

My morals tell me one thing, but practicality and business sense tell me another.

Quite the quandry.

dl36 · Answer

soooooo....If the unions are not effective and instead result in less pay... then  the idea that they result in too much money and benefits going to workers is untrue...  So to use the union talking point that they are bankrupting the government/companies is simply a lie...  The reality as your numbers show is that unions actually do a disservice to the members and collect unions dues while the company profits...People that bitchh and whine and moan about greedy unions are just plain lying...  Like you have shown us, unions do not result in cushy pay/benefits/pensions etc... Its all scam... pro-union supporters and anti union whiners are talking out of their fools...Thank you for justifying everything I have always thought about unions.

rick3117 · Answer

I do not want to make a blanket statement, but my employment was negotiated by myself and management and I was happy with the terms.. Now I do not see how I can stay. The union is the only thing that happened in between.

I have been a Foreman for a excavation company, a weld inspector on coal fired power plants, and a city carrier for the post office.

Of the three encounters I have had in my life ( I am now thirty) I have been screwed by the union in every instance.

I am beginning to think it is a trend.

ruffcutter2006 · Answer

why no benefits?

rick3117 · Answer

I can get them after a year.

rick3117 · Answer

I have Health under my wife&#x27;s plan plus the VA and contribute to my own investments for retirement.  I would just rather work for money.

ruffcutter2006 · Answer

if you refuse the work you still get unemployment?

dl36 · Answer

rick,I respect you because you dont make blanket statements and instead speak from your own personal perspective and experience...You stand out from the "Cart before horse" story tellers that take a prescribed talking point or view and then Spin some tall tale or story only to get caught in lie, after lie, after lie...I get what you are saying from a numbers/mathematical break down of your situation...But unions also help with things beyond just dollars and cents...  This would be lay offs, work conditions, vacations etc...My personal experience of unions is not good either...  I worked for a huge non-profit known for screwing its employees so they leave and can bring in the next batch of employees to screw.... most people like me did it to gain the necessary clinical experience and hours to get certification/licensure...So at first the union people show up and of course the employer wont let them in so they just started popping up at our homes and places of residence uninvited....  It seemed a little creepy... kinda like how the psychopathic stalker on this site read, follow and catalog everything I post...But in the end the workers decided not to go with the union... and the union lost interest because in the end the county and state broke up the agency because it was too big and too stupid mirroring government itself...My wife works in the medical/clinical field and is part of a guild/union...  as far as pay and benefits goes they get paid more then the non-unionized employees at other places doing the same job...  and they the benefits are literally out of this world... which is good because we get family coverage and allows me to own my own business and not have to worry...But the union really values seniority on everything...  vacations, lay offs, you name it... how ever possible to screw the newest employees...  but if you think about it, it actually benefits the employer because of the retention as once people gain seniority they dont want to leave because they get first choice on vacations...So from what I can see, there are pros and cons to unions.. so my view falls in the middle leaning more towards anti-union...  but this is from and independent, real life perspective like your&#x27;s...and not some contrived cut/pasted fantasy land talking point from a blog/chain-email/fox"news"-msnbc...

captjohn67 · Answer

i think i would go back to school, but i might change that decision tomorrow

rick3117 · Answer

Ruffcutter. I am under contract until April. No matter what I have to take a layoff.  Then they will rehire me if I want the position. But I will be laid off thus qualify for Unemployment.

bowlslit · Answer

Originally posted by DL36:Post #3If the unions are not effective and instead result in less pay... then &#xD;&#xA; the idea that they result in too much money and benefits going to &#xD;&#xA;workers is untrue...  So to use the union talking point that they are &#xD;&#xA;bankrupting the government/companies is simply a lie.Post #9My wife works in the medical/clinical field and is part of a &#xD;&#xA;guild/union...  as far as pay and benefits goes they get paid more then &#xD;&#xA;the non-unionized employees at other places doing the same job...  and &#xD;&#xA;they the benefits are literally out of this world.-------------------------------------------------------------------------------Do you always prefer to contradict yourself or is this just an oversight by you?

mattbrot · Answer

What will the benefits be after a year?  Will you get 401K match, child tuition help etc... What will the pay raise / promotion situation be?  These are questions that you need to make sure you ask. Taking an immediate pay cut with potential upside is a different story.There is a difference between no benefits at all and waiting out a year until they are available.

bowlslit · Answer

What were you saying about your wife&#x27;s bennies and pay that was &#x27;Out of this world&#x27; ? Post # 12.I&#x27;m patiently waiting for this answer.

rick3117 · Answer

Here is what I heard from the union pres. In my district.

We were getting paid good money as contractors because we didn't need health insurance or retirement.

Union said that we don't contribute to pensions and they do not like that. So the union has been pushing to kill the contractor designation so that they can negotiate our wages, and collect dues.

That is part of the pay cut. The other half is the fact that they have to become compliant with 2014 deadline for obamacare. Meaning we have to be offered health insurance. (Which does me no good as I have VA and am on my wife's).

So to recap. The cut money will be spent on the union to cut my wage, and for socialized health care. After my tax increase. My take home pay will be about 1,050 less a month.

Thanks union
Thanks Obama.

dl36 · Answer

Yup makes sense.Thanks for talking about reality here.It sounds like the union is screwing you along with the employer at the same time.Once again... The idea that unions are bankrupting companies and government does make sense if they facilitating you not getting benefits.The reality is that this sounds more corporate like Walmart that will offer crappy benefits and then expect the tax payers to pick up the tab on the rest.With this model, it seems like corporations would benefit the most from Obama care as now they can pass the buck to the tax payer.Funny how works out. ( thumbs down emoticon)

dl36 · Answer

Bowslit,This whole reality based perception thing seems to be really giving you fits...My first post was commenting on Ricky&#39;s experience,I also commented on what I have seen with my wife and my own experience.And therefore based on personal real life experience there are different conclusions.It would be ignorant to think that all unions in all sectors are completely identical. This where you get hung up in your &quot;cart before horse&quot; arguments.  Rick and others talk reality and the draw conclusions.You how ever take a prescribed, over simplified view and then desperately scour the net for any possible story that might side with the view you have been prescribed and the cut/paste it here.This independence in personal thought and view point seems be something you struggle with.  This type of freedom seems to baffle you.But it is par for the course for &quot;you guys&quot;... Your fantasy land logic just seems to be sticking out the worst in the forum right now.Covers knows ; )Like I always said... It&#39;s HOW you think that is so concerning.

TheGoldenGoose · Answer

Seems like a no-brainer to me. Collect your unemployment (you're EARNED it), further your education, spend some quality time with your children, help your wifey more around the homestead. How is this a losing scenario? Working for other people is highly overrated. Ask ANYBODY in their later years of life if they wished they worked harder and longer days. How many people would say yes? You never hear anybody say they wished they had worked longer and harder instead of getting a better education and spending time with their family.

bowlslit · Answer

DL&#xD;&#xA;I have never scoured the internet looking for bad union stories. The topic just happens to come up regularly enough. (difficult for you to imagine I know)&#xD;&#xA;I have never, EVER said that all union scenarios are bad. As a matter of fact, its quite ignorant for you to assume that I speak about ALL unions when I talk about any of them.&#xD;&#xA;Since I have had experience with the local steelworkers union, (shocking to you huh?)  I have enough experience to know how the &#x27;usual&#x27; union system works. ( I know its hard for you to wrap your head around the fact that someone else knows something too. GET OVER YOURSELF YOU behind)&#xD;&#xA;I personally heard a union rep say that he didn&#x27;t care if our manufacturing plant made a profit or not. His only care was that the parent company &#x27;Had deep pockets&#x27; and making a profit wasn&#x27;t necessary in his eyes.&#xD;&#xA;The fact that union representation has been in steep decline for years speaks volumes for what I&#x27;ve been saying about them.&#xD;&#xA;The fact that your wifes bennies are &#x27;Out of this world&#x27; speaks volumes as well. Skyrocketing healthcare costs....Hmmm.&#xD;&#xA;(dumbass emoticon)

dl36 · Answer

Show me one thread where you say unions are good...GameSetMatch

bowlslit · Answer

[Quote: Originally Posted by dl36] Show me one thread where you say unions are good...Stiln&#xD;&#xA;Lets &#xD;&#xA;Dock&#xD;&#xA;OK.[/Quote]&#xD;&#xA;I&#x27;ve never said that ALL unions are bad. Thats what I said in post #19.

bowlslit · Answer

[Quote: Originally Posted by bowlslit]  Originally posted by DL36:Post #3If the unions are not effective and instead result in less pay... then &#xD;&#xA; the idea that they result in too much money and benefits going to &#xD;&#xA;workers is untrue...  So to use the union talking point that they are &#xD;&#xA;bankrupting the government/companies is simply a lie.Post #9My wife works in the medical/clinical field and is part of a &#xD;&#xA;guild/union...  as far as pay and benefits goes they get paid more then &#xD;&#xA;the non-unionized employees at other places doing the same job...  and &#xD;&#xA;they the benefits are literally out of this world.-------------------------------------------------------------------------------Do you always prefer to contradict yourself or is this just an oversight by you?  [/Quote]So that&#x27;s it? Your whole repudiation of this is going to be from that angle that I can&#x27;t ask you why you contradicted yourself when you said that If the unions are not effective and instead result in less pay... then &#xD;&#xA; the idea that they result in too much money and benefits going to &#xD;&#xA;workers is untrue...  So to use the union talking point that they are &#xD;&#xA;bankrupting the government/companies is simply a lie. because you think I have always implied that all unions are bad and there can possibly be no good unions.Sounds like a perfect case of deflection to me.I wonder if you were even smart enough to figure out that you contradicted yourself in post 3 and post 9. I bet not.

Rush51 · Answer

Only an idiot would say unions are good.    As much as we hear about unions, their participation rate is declining by the tens of thousands.   Go look at the figures over the past 15 Year to prove the point.  Michigan is making great strides, eh ?!?! Go stand on your own two feet... and quit depending on some Union Boss to tell you how to think. Troll.

bowlslit · Answer

&#x2B;1Did you like how he contradicted himself post #3 and post #9?     &#x27;No, Unions are not causing employers to go bankrupt, but my wifes bennies from a union job are &#x27;OUT OF THIS WORLD&#x27; "

rick3117 · Answer

To be fair the unions worked great for the older generation in the post office. They keep their raises and are ensured all their benefits (as they should be, they worked for them).

The point is that it is clear that the new generation of workers is definitely bearing the brunt of these cuts.

The entry level pay for carriers is even lower than it was a decade ago.

Has the cost of living gone down?

We will have less so that the previous generation can retire with more.

I hope my generation never puts the screws to another generation like this one has.

Unions

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