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Author: [Politics] Topic: What did we learn
ApocalypseLater send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook |
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#101
Posted: 11/8/2012 12:41:14 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by ilsp2003:


how the hell do you know that blacks voted for Obama because he is black




how the hell do you NOT know that?  what world do you live in?  is this just an issue of naivete?  or wanting to think the best of huma nature?

we live in the real world, my friend... garbage isn't that complicated, especially if you OBSERVE...

give it a shot!  you'd be amazed what you can learn...
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#102
Posted: 11/8/2012 12:44:24 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Crusher13:



How bout you Matt and K? I would absolutely LOVE to hear, for the record of course, what/how last nights results will affect America's future

I don't feel like anything is going to change in America. I didn't vote for either of these two clowns. I voted third party for two reasons: because I don't have any significant faith in Obama or Romney and because I think the two party political system in America needs to be opened up to better represent the vast diversity of its citizens. 

Neither of these guys really represent what I am interested in, or in other terms, they each marginally represent my views....barely. 

I would consider myself a fiscal conservative(seems to be a popular phrase these days) however I don't think inflating the military budget while slashing social programs(like planned parenthood) is the way to save money. I would actually like to see it in reverse. End the wars, re-fools overseas bases and assignment and worry about our own country rather than trying to police the world and spread American imperialism, which is the real reason most of the world hates us. 

Also, I don't want anyone telling me how I should live my life according a religious book of any kind. I don't want to hear about I have to live to someone else's moral religious standard. I'm pro choice, and don't give a garbage about happy marriage. If happy people want to get married, good for them. Give them the same equal rights as traditional married couples. 

One thing I refuse to do however, is to blame Obama for everything that is wrong with this country. Is he our savior? Abso-friggin-lutely not! Is he more trustworthy than anything, and I mean anything, the GOP put out there? Yes and that was decided the second they let their choice of candidate essentially become a crazy religious person like Perry and Bachmann, or a hypocritical adulterer like Gingrich and ignored its best candidate: Ron Paul. 

Sorry if I don't want to jump on your band wagon of blaming the world on Obama, because his first term isn't and shouldn't be judged in a vacuum. This country has been running deficits for almost the last 30 years, even under your savior Reagan it was. The national debt has been growing the entire time. It didn't just start four years ago. 
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#103
Posted: 11/8/2012 12:48:48 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by ilsp2003:



because black people voted for Obama does not mean they are racists. Black people have voted for only white presidents in the past. Clinton, Kerry, Gore, Dukakis, Mondale, and Carter are not black


why should Black people vote for a guy whose religion believe that being black is a curse?








how much do YOU know about American History... because it appears you are unaware that 2008 was the first time a black candidate has ever run for President... did you know this?

maybe this will make it simpler... how many times has the black population ever voted AGAINST a black candidate?  in the combined 2008 and 2012 elections... how many black votes were cast AGAINST Barrack Obama?

now... how many were cast FOR him?

regarding the religion comment... gee!  i was under the impression that Obama is the same religion as all those football players who thank Jesus after they score a touchdown...




my God i am becoming more terrified to live in this country every day...
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#104
Posted: 11/8/2012 11:00:14 AM
QUOTE

Originally Posted by Slovak:

2 million more African Americans and 2 Million more Hispanics voted in the 2008 election than they did just 4 years earlier. So now this 94% of the Black vote seems more relevant doesn't it?


 

Sure, that's a contributing factor. What I don't understand is why certain people(not you) just like to single this out as if that's why GOP lost without looking at others. For instance, Asian Americans overvehemently supported Obama this time around. While I am sure there are quite a few, they don't normally fit the "entitlement, welfare" mode. As a matter of fact, they are traditionally more conservative and in line with its ideology. Women also supported him with a big margin.

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#105
Posted: 11/8/2012 12:44:04 PM
I don't think the significant increase is the only reason why Obama got reelected, Obama was the better of 2 evils IMO. Also, more than half a million more Asians came out and voted in 2008 as well. but it kind of makes you question the true priority of the American people by race. They never voted before, but just because a black man is running they decide to register and go out and vote?




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#106
Posted: 11/8/2012 3:02:49 PM
Slovak, maybe they are more in touch with politics due to social media and want to take a more active role. Just an idea.
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#107
Posted: 11/8/2012 3:15:58 PM

it is one thing to speculate... but speculate reasonably... do you really believe THAT is why?  and besides, why did they just SUDDENLY want to take a more active role in 2008 and 2012?  social media is not something that has popped up in the last decade...

 

how exactly do you make it through the world, if you are considering EVERY single possible reason for every scenario, even the ones that are miniscule beyond description, as if they are just as likely as the obvious reason...

 

PARSIMONY, folks!  look into it...

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#108
Posted: 11/8/2012 3:23:22 PM
Facebook, MySpace, twitter did pop up in the last decade. Lots of people, especially younger ones that are into technology, are on these forms of social media. It's no secret that Asians are pretty big into technology. Sorry to stereotype big it does have some truth.

Like I said, just an idea.
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#109
Posted: 11/8/2012 3:51:24 PM
i think it's a pretty big reach, ktrain...


i don't really have time to look these things up, but i'm sure this information is available, so maybe someone else can look into it and share the results:


How many black voters cast their vote for Obama in 2008?
How many black voters cast their vote against Obama in 2008?
How many black voters cast their vote for Obama in 2012?
How many black voters cast their vote against Obama in 2012?

Now...

How many black voters cast their vote for EITHER candidate in 2004?
How many black voters cast their vote for EITHER candidate in 2000?
How many black voters cast their vote for EITHER candidate in 1996?
How many black voters cast their vote for EITHER candidate in 1992?


i would venture to guess that the entire number of black votes cast in the previous 4 elections, does not even come close to the number of black votes cast for Obama in EITHER 2008 OR 2012...


i don't think you can dismiss those numbers with your social media argument... i don't think logic supports it to begin with... we may have only had social media for a decade or so, but we've all had TVs for 50+ years... and we've all had the right to vote for 80+ years...
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#110
Posted: 11/8/2012 3:57:58 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by bunny651:

 

Sure, that's a contributing factor. What I don't understand is why certain people(not you) just like to single this out as if that's why GOP lost without looking at others. For instance, Asian Americans overvehemently supported Obama this time around. While I am sure there are quite a few, they don't normally fit the "entitlement, welfare" mode. As a matter of fact, they are traditionally more conservative and in line with its ideology. Women also supported him with a big margin.




first, i (personally) and not looking into this to find a reason why Romney lost... that is not the issue... the issues are (a) that there is an irresponsibility factor to voting for someone PURELY based on the color of their skin... and (b) there is a dangerous precedent being set here for all future elections... this is what Civil Wars are made of... this country has not been more divided since the 1900s...


second, the distributions of Asian and Latin Americans are not as skewed... Asians and Hispanics were more of a 3:1 distribution... African Americans were close to a 20:1 distribution... please do NOT try to suggest those distributions are saying the same thing... that is statistical nonsense!!!


for comparison (since some people are suggesting that Whites only voted based on color)... the distribution of White Males who voted for Romney, to those who voted for Obama, is a 3:2 ratio... well within expected values of statistical variance...


so let's get our math straight here...
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#111
Posted: 11/8/2012 5:25:48 PM
Apocalypse,

I was more referring to Slovaks comments about Asian voter turnout increase.

My comments weren't directed towards black voter turnout.

I think they vote democrat because for different reasons, not social media.
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#112
Posted: 11/8/2012 5:56:12 PM
 Who cares? It is a problem to an extent I agree. But guess what -- it is called the way it is. And it is not likely to change in the near future.

So a better and more productive discussion should be what steps are the repubs going to take to try to appeal / not alienate these groups so that they can remain competitive with various populations of voters (young, hispanic, black, asian) that are only going to grow in terms of % of voters in future elections.   
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#113
Posted: 11/8/2012 6:36:11 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by mattbrot:

 

So a better and more productive discussion should be what steps are the repubs going to take to try to appeal / not alienate these groups so that they can remain competitive with various populations of voters (young, hispanic, black, asian) that are only going to grow in terms of % of voters in future elections.   



this won't be an issue come next election... as bad as Obama was in his first term, his 2nd term will be much much worse!  even the brain-washed masses who have been gurgling his juice for the past 4 years will be jumping ship before the next election...

this garbage ain't that complicated!  no different than the Bush years... he was terrible in his first 4 years, but he got re-elected... by the end of 8 years you couldn't find anyone who had admitted to voting for him in either election... gonna be the same garbage 4 years from now...


this is why the 2-party scam works... there aren't 2 parties... it is bullshit!  yes, their political rhetoric before the election paints them as Democrat or Republican, but once they get into the White House they couldn't give a garbage about those ideals... it's a friggin smoke screen that people just love to eat up...

4 years from now, the Democrats will be personae non grata... just like the Republicans were 4 years ago... people will be ashamed to admit they were ever Democrats in 4 years... you can take that to the bank!  even the black population will be separating themselves from Obama, saying things like "well, we should have known... he isn't really black"... friggin sheep!

you want advice... find a line on the Republicans to win the next election, because right now people are actually (inexplicably) buying into the fact that the Republican party can't win elections anymore...

unbelievable how easily manipulated these people's minds are...
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#114
Posted: 11/8/2012 6:38:56 PM
this is no different than a football team that everyone puts stock into... then they go belly-up in a big game, and everyone thinks they can't win a football game anymore...

everyone wants to make excuses, and over-react, and condemn them to eternal failure...

doesn't work that way... ever!  this is no different...
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#115
Posted: 11/8/2012 6:44:20 PM
watching a report on FoxNews right now... interesting stat:


GWB won 60% of the White Male vote in 1988, and took 400 electoral votes...

Romney won 60% of the White Male vote in 2012, and got about half as many electoral votes...




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#116
Posted: 11/8/2012 6:55:50 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by ApocalypseLater:







how much do YOU know about American History... because it appears you are unaware that 2008 was the first time a black candidate has ever run for President... did you know this?

maybe this will make it simpler... how many times has the black population ever voted AGAINST a black candidate?  in the combined 2008 and 2012 elections... how many black votes were cast AGAINST Barrack Obama?

now... how many were cast FOR him?

regarding the religion comment... gee!  i was under the impression that Obama is the same religion as all those football players who thank Jesus after they score a touchdown...




my God i am becoming more terrified to live in this country every day...


How about you review your post # 101 and confirm that you are posting nonsense.

there is NO evidence to confirm that black people voted for Obama because of race because they have always supported Democrat presidents who were white.

they still voted for a Democrat President who is 1/2 black and 1/2 white and you are jumping to conclusion.

 you are watching Fox news report


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#117
Posted: 11/8/2012 6:59:25 PM
ApocaypeLater, are you that guy with

‘Put the White Back in the White House’ tea shirt


http://colorlines.com/archives/2012/10/the_racist_white_house_is_white_meme.html

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#118
Posted: 11/8/2012 7:18:26 PM
QUOTE

Originally Posted by ilsp2003:



How about you review your post # 101 and confirm that you are posting nonsense.

there is NO evidence to confirm that black people voted for Obama because of race because they have always supported Democrat presidents who were white.

they still voted for a Democrat President who is 1/2 black and 1/2 white and you are jumping to conclusion.

 you are watching Fox news report


Want to watch them scatter? I've asked this question numerous times and, while getting plenty of personal attacks, have yet get one answer.

Let's say they are right to s certain extent. Let's hypothesize that 90% of blacks vote Dem. Now let's say that 95% of blacks voted for Obama. That would mean that 5% of blacks voted for Obama because of skin color.

If we assume for one moment that is true, would they then deny that 5% of whites voted for Romney because he was white, or for that matter, any other candidate because he/she was white? I would guess the number is much higher than 5%.

But it hardly means that all whites are racist...far from it. Yet, they continue to harp on blacks being racist.

Quite interesting.....

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#119
Posted: 11/8/2012 7:22:45 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by djbrow:

Want to watch them scatter? I've asked this question numerous times and, while getting plenty of personal attacks, have yet get one answer.

Let's say they are right to s certain extent. Let's hypothesize that 90% of blacks vote Dem. Now let's say that 95% of blacks voted for Obama. That would mean that 5% of blacks voted for Obama because of skin color.

If we assume for one moment that is true, would they then deny that 5% of whites voted for Romney because he was white, or for that matter, any other candidate because he/she was white? I would guess the number is much higher than 5%.

But it hardly means that all whites are racist...far from it. Yet, they continue to harp on blacks being racist.

Quite interesting.....





You made a very good point
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#120
Posted: 11/8/2012 7:23:33 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by djbrow:

Want to watch them scatter? I've asked this question numerous times and, while getting plenty of personal attacks, have yet get one answer.

Let's say they are right to s certain extent. Let's hypothesize that 90% of blacks vote Dem. Now let's say that 95% of blacks voted for Obama. That would mean that 5% of blacks voted for Obama because of skin color.

If we assume for one moment that is true, would they then deny that 5% of whites voted for Romney because he was white, or for that matter, any other candidate because he/she was white? I would guess the number is much higher than 5%.

But it hardly means that all whites are racist...far from it. Yet, they continue to harp on blacks being racist.

Quite interesting.....




on top of that, given our history and the obvious exclusion of a legitimate black candidate for so many years, on the racist/prejudice/impropriety scale, i wouldn't compare a black person voting for a black president with a white person voting against a black president if both made the decision based on race alone. 
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#121
Posted: 11/8/2012 7:37:56 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by ApocalypseLater:

watching a report on FoxNews right now... interesting stat:


GWB won 60% of the White Male vote in 1988, and took 400 electoral votes...

Romney won 60% of the White Male vote in 2012, and got about half as many electoral votes...





I do not understand what the  is for.

This proves the point that the white male vote is not the same % of total voters as in the past. Or put in other terms the minority vote is becoming a greater % of total votes. 
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#122
Posted: 11/8/2012 7:48:29 PM
DJBrow, it isn't about the % numbers per party, that is a given and always has been it is about the fact that 5 million more minorities came out and voted in 2008 than in previous years.

It's not about the 90% or 95%, it was about 2 million more blacks voted in 2008 than in 2004.

Where were these people before in previous elections?

Do you honestly believe that if a white democrat was running in 2008 that 5 million more minorities would have come out and voted?
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#123
Posted: 11/8/2012 7:58:59 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by ClubDirt:




on top of that, given our history and the obvious exclusion of a legitimate black candidate for so many years, on the racist/prejudice/impropriety scale, i wouldn't compare a black person voting for a black president with a white person voting against a black president if both made the decision based on race alone. 



this is literally the only legitimate argument that has been made in opposition of mine and Slovak's point... and in fact, many friends of mine who are black have basically said this exact thing...

but all this says is that they are JUSTIFIED (at least in their minds) for voting for a black candidate SOLELY based on the color of his skin... but it still means they voted for him on the color of his skin...



i don't have the time or energy to engage in any arguments with people who simply aren't grasping the significance of the statistical date, or how to evaluate it... i can't take you to school here in this forum... you will either wake up to reality before it's too late, or you won't... it will have no impact on me or the world as a whole, regardless...

there is a point of no return, and we passed it awhile ago...
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#124
Posted: 11/8/2012 8:07:27 PM
QUOTE

Originally Posted by Slovak:

DJBrow, it isn't about the % numbers per party, that is a given and always has been it is about the fact that 5 million more minorities came out and voted in 2008 than in previous years.

It's not about the 90% or 95%, it was about 2 million more blacks voted in 2008 than in 2004.

Where were these people before in previous elections?

Do you honestly believe that if a white democrat was running in 2008 that 5 million more minorities would have come out and voted?

Actually, it was the youth vote that propelled Obama. And it is always about percentages.

299,398,484 total population
225,746,457 total population over 18 years
122,394,724 total number of voters
54% of population voted.

Between 22 and 24 million young Americans ages 18–29 voted, resulting in an estimated youth voter turnout (the percentage of eligible voters who actually cast a vote) of between 49.3 and 54.5 percent.

This is an increase of 1 to 6 percentage points over the estimated youth turnout in 2004, and an increase of between 8 and 13 percentage points over the turnout in the 2000 election. The all-time highest youth turnout was 55.4 percent in 1972, the first year that 18-year-olds could vote in a presidential election.

Sixty-six percent of young voters cast their ballot for Barack Obama, the largest-ever showing for a presidential candidate in this age group.

Source(s):

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/… http://thetartan.org/2008/11/10/news/ele… & CNN.com
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#125
Posted: 11/8/2012 8:22:08 PM
it is becoming very tiring for me to constantly be the smartest man in every thread. The pressure builds up over time. 

All that aside

Again -- why even argue the % vs the actual numbers? who cares. it is what it is and is not going to change. And is a senseless argument.

The bigger question is why do 95% of blacks (regardless of what the absolute # the 95% adds up to be) always vote for the democrat? And more importantly what will the repubs do to try to narrow the gap? Do not give me the 4 year and people are going to hate the dems crap. Blacks, Hispanics, and youth vote democrat. It is what it is. So what are the repubs going to do to narrow this gap????
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