Messages

Forum Index : Politics : Messages Page 3 of 4  1 2 3 4  
Author: [Politics] Topic: CHICAGO TEACHERS STRIKE
14daroad send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook |
14daroad
Participation Meter
Captain
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 9261
Location: Virginia
#51
Posted: 9/13/2012 11:41:03 AM

Wallstreet,

the charter schools in Chicago graduate more students with less funding.

 

quote
wallstreetcappers send a private message View Space | Friends | Playbook |
wallstreetcappers
Participation Meter
Covers Linesmen
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 49968
Location: United States
#52
Posted: 9/13/2012 11:58:09 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by 14daroad:

Wallstreet,

the charter schools in Chicago graduate more students with less funding.

 


That is a completely misguided myth on multiple fronts.

We have discussed charters here before and the evidence is not convincing or long term and it has many errors in its early conclusions.

Charter schools are sought out by parents wanting a different environment for their kids..they are not on the same platform as traditional schools..people have to seek them out.

Now..consider that the parent who is seeking out alternative educational avenues are VERY inclined to be in tune with what the kiddo is doing in school..thus I would expect a MUCH MUCH higher success rate for a charter school, as I would expect a much higher result for say Phoenix Country Day prep school..

Country Day is an elite private school here that costs about 25k a year and you have to be accepted to go there..it is better than any other school I've ever seen including the highly ranked public school we went to in Pennsylvania.

So wouldnt you expect a charter school to have better results irregardless of ANY learning going on at the school? The profile of the kids going to the charter school is dramatically different than those in the same public school.

Charter schools lack the even weakened public school offering and I will never take my kiddo to one.

If you were to instead take half of the average public schools population and bus them to the charter school, the results would be identical on a larger scale.


quote
14daroad send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook |
14daroad
Participation Meter
Captain
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 9261
Location: Virginia
#53
Posted: 9/13/2012 2:28:43 PM
That is a completely misguided myth on multiple fronts.
 
No, sir, it is an actual fact.
Graduation rate for Chicago Charter schools is 76%.
 
Note: CPS spent $14K per pupil in 2011.
 
quote
14daroad send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook |
14daroad
Participation Meter
Captain
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 9261
Location: Virginia
#54
Posted: 9/13/2012 2:32:13 PM

A 2009 Rand Corporation study found that students who attended Chicago’s “multi-grade” charters (including middle- and high-school grades) were more likely to graduate and go to college than their peers. In a September 2011 study of ACT results by the Illinois Policy Institute, 14 of the top 25 performing open-enrollment high schools, and 9 of the top 10, were charters.

quote
wallstreetcappers send a private message View Space | Friends | Playbook |
wallstreetcappers
Participation Meter
Covers Linesmen
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 49968
Location: United States
#55
Posted: 9/13/2012 2:34:59 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by 14daroad:

That is a completely misguided myth on multiple fronts.
 
No, sir, it is an actual fact.
Graduation rate for Chicago Charter schools is 76%.
 
Note: CPS spent $14K per pupil in 2011.
 

Did I say it wasnt a fact?

Do you understand what the word myth means?

It means the fact is not completely transparent..it lacks detail and a history.

Of course a charter school should have better results, the POOL is better..the parents seeking out charters are not the average public school parent..

It would be comparable to saying that kids who were taught how to read and do math at an early age score better than those who dont..

The conclusion is so obvious and it is a hollow and irrelevant statistic.

Charters are not the answer..the answer is having parental involvement and participation, having the kids learning before school and at home.

My kiddo has access to a program that few in our area do and because of that program and our diligence at home she is two grades in front of her peers.

Instead of pointing fingers at unions and public schools, try actually attempting to fix things and help others.

I know how to get the scores up and graduation rates up..it has absolutely nothing to do with charter schools and everything to do with what happens at home.
quote
lordspoint send a private message View Space | Friends | Playbook |
lordspoint
Participation Meter
All-Star
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 13066
Location: Connecticut
#56
Posted: 9/13/2012 4:40:18 PM

wall

some people should never be allowed to have children.as a Thate being said as a society we will never get 100% parental involvement. This would venture a guess that such involvment nose dives in poorer districts.

But in regard to the topic at hand these teachers need some sort of accountabilty. Standardized testing? Thats a joke, thats not even teaching kids to think; it just teaches how to memorize and take a test. I am very against such tests and have to agree with the teachers that that is a garbage indicator of a teachers performance.

 

quote
14daroad send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook |
14daroad
Participation Meter
Captain
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 9261
Location: Virginia
#57
Posted: 9/13/2012 5:06:52 PM
Instead of pointing fingers at unions and public schools, try actually attempting to fix things and help others.


So I guess accountability is a bad thing?
Pretending these people deserve a raise is a good thing?

t has absolutely nothing to do with charter schools and everything to do with what happens at home.


Well isn't that convenient. So are the teachers responsible for anything or are they just merely bystanders?
quote
14daroad send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook |
14daroad
Participation Meter
Captain
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 9261
Location: Virginia
#58
Posted: 9/13/2012 5:11:34 PM
Of course a charter school should have better results, the POOL is better..the parents seeking out charters are not the average public school parent.

Then who are they?

The pool of students for charter schools is expanding. Charter schools already enroll about 12 percent of Chicago students. 
4,700 students are on the waiting list
quote
lordspoint send a private message View Space | Friends | Playbook |
lordspoint
Participation Meter
All-Star
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 13066
Location: Connecticut
#59
Posted: 9/13/2012 5:14:39 PM
Charter schools are publically funded lest anyone think otherwise
quote
wallstreetcappers send a private message View Space | Friends | Playbook |
wallstreetcappers
Participation Meter
Covers Linesmen
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 49968
Location: United States
#60
Posted: 9/13/2012 7:23:06 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by lordspoint:

Charter schools are publically funded lest anyone think otherwise

Thats correct..so instead of teachers and unions getting money, the private sector skims off the top for profit which is a terrible idea.

14, that is the point..people read headlines and fail to really research on their own, just looking for the quick fix.

Down here they have a good solution to bad schools..they have open borders. I do not live in the district where my kiddo goes to school..we researched the demographics, scores, parent ratings of all schools in a 30 min radius and went with the one we felt best served our goals..

No need for profit driven charter schools if you have open borders and attentive parents.

I've seen kids in classes with GREAT teachers do poorly because of personal issues, bad study habits..bad home life. I've seen kids do great in classes with teachers I would not want to be in..

The family accounts for the majority of the results in a classroom. You can have a great school and still have disruptive, bad student results..and vice versa.

Of course many play the blame game and fail to take responsibility for their kids and results.

Now if a school is known for bad administration or bullying or bad teachers, having open borders solves all of those issues and the school which is leaking admissions will have to answer to the district and state which seems to bring change (at least around here).
quote
djbrow
RSI Wagerline RSI Rating
send a private message View Space | Friends | Playbook | My Sportsbook: BookMaker |
djbrow
Participation Meter
Covers Linesmen
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 13546
Location: United States
#61
Posted: 9/13/2012 9:08:22 PM
You better believe charter schools are publically funded. From a purely practical standpoint, EVERY school is publically funded.
quote
lordspoint send a private message View Space | Friends | Playbook |
lordspoint
Participation Meter
All-Star
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 13066
Location: Connecticut
#62
Posted: 9/13/2012 9:34:51 PM
Open borders only solves problems if schools with X distance have enough room for additional students.
If for profit schools work in poor neighborhoods then it should be looked at and tried in maybe a broader scale.

I agree that parental involvement is a big part of the solution just as lack of is a big part of the problem.
Posted using a mobile device.
quote
14daroad send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook |
14daroad
Participation Meter
Captain
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 9261
Location: Virginia
#63
Posted: 9/14/2012 8:55:27 AM

Down here they have a good solution to bad schools..they have open borders.

That is very interesting. But, how, exactly, does that work? I mean, do they have a limit and/or wait lists? What if there is a rush to to the "good" school?

Are you (theoretically) responsible for transportation or do they provide buses?

quote
wallstreetcappers send a private message View Space | Friends | Playbook |
wallstreetcappers
Participation Meter
Covers Linesmen
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 49968
Location: United States
#64
Posted: 9/14/2012 12:31:52 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by 14daroad:

Down here they have a good solution to bad schools..they have open borders.

That is very interesting. But, how, exactly, does that work? I mean, do they have a limit and/or wait lists? What if there is a rush to to the "good" school?

Are you (theoretically) responsible for transportation or do they provide buses?


Correct on all you said.

I dont even live in the district where we run up to school.

Theoretically I could run up an hour away to a school if I wanted to. The reasoning is that schools are state funded so it doesnt really matter.

Anyone living outside the school boundaries are required to bring kids in themselves..I have several friends who also drop their kids and pick up, they also came for the demographic profile and the rating of the school..they also supplement at home and their kids are also a grade plus above in math and science.

Yes the school has open enrollment and theoretically a school could be too full, but that hasnt happened yet and I had several other schools in mind.

We had some neighbors when I lived in a different part of town years ago that would truck their kiddo 45 minutes each way to a school they wanted her to be in.


quote
14daroad send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook |
14daroad
Participation Meter
Captain
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 9261
Location: Virginia
#65
Posted: 9/14/2012 1:18:50 PM

Wallstreet,

I am suprised one of the schools isn't over capacity! At least if it is a good one. The states I've lived in draw bondaries by locality & counties and so the richer counties/areas end up having the better schools (and higher property taxes).

quote
lordspoint send a private message View Space | Friends | Playbook |
lordspoint
Participation Meter
All-Star
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 13066
Location: Connecticut
#66
Posted: 9/14/2012 1:23:16 PM

Ct schools are only partially state funded. The rest is town funded and that is why open borders are not really applicable here.

My town attracts residents just becuase of the school system.......you pay for it with high taxes but its a choice

 

quote
wallstreetcappers send a private message View Space | Friends | Playbook |
wallstreetcappers
Participation Meter
Covers Linesmen
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 49968
Location: United States
#67
Posted: 9/14/2012 1:31:50 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by lordspoint:

Ct schools are only partially state funded. The rest is town funded and that is why open borders are not really applicable here.

My town attracts residents just becuase of the school system.......you pay for it with high taxes but its a choice

 


Thats the point I tried to make to Koaj for years..that the quality of your locale can be effected by the educational environment..people want to live in areas of high educational quality, and you cannot charter school high quality education..

The best education is with lower class sizes, full and rich school schedules and a positive environment.

Probably the greatest thing I miss about living in PA is the awesome district and school we were attending.

I would pay double the property tax if I knew it went to fund education and to expand and enrich the experience for the kids. 

Here the state keeps stripping the educational budgets, every single year and so every year you see these props that the districts have to get passed so that the massive funding gaps get filled and class sizes dont keep bursting, programs keep being dropped.
quote
lordspoint send a private message View Space | Friends | Playbook |
lordspoint
Participation Meter
All-Star
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 13066
Location: Connecticut
#68
Posted: 9/16/2012 9:18:56 PM
Wall
They just opened a charter school iny town. I don't know of any town residents who are going to attend but it will give parents of other towns with shitty schools a choice. There is another magnet school in a neighboring town so parents have numerous choices.
Posted using a mobile device.
quote
lordspoint send a private message View Space | Friends | Playbook |
lordspoint
Participation Meter
All-Star
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 13066
Location: Connecticut
#69
Posted: 9/16/2012 9:19:49 PM
http://m.yahoo.com/w/legobpengine/news/chicago-teachers-union-continue-strike-230003667.html?.b=index&.ts=1347844523&.intl=US&.lang=en&.ysid=oDi5JhjPUHEsriYDaVYkycfP

"Our members are not happy," Lewis said. "They want to know if there is anything more they can get."

But it's all about the kids right?
Posted using a mobile device.
quote
wallstreetcappers send a private message View Space | Friends | Playbook |
wallstreetcappers
Participation Meter
Covers Linesmen
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 49968
Location: United States
#70
Posted: 9/16/2012 11:15:15 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by lordspoint:

Wall
They just opened a charter school iny town. I don't know of any town residents who are going to attend but it will give parents of other towns with shitty schools a choice. There is another magnet school in a neighboring town so parents have numerous choices.

Charters claims are made off the backs of the obvious..that parents who seek alternative options that include having to shuttle their kids out to school every day are also the same kind of parents who are involved in the class and are involved at home..thus the odds are that kid at home has more instruction and higher expectation than the average, the mean student of the school in question.

It makes perfect sense..so I am calling bullsh!t on Charter schools and their watered down for profit scheme.

quote
Killer_B send a private message View Space | Friends | Playbook |
Killer_B
Participation Meter
Veteran
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3417
Location: Arizona
#71
Posted: 9/17/2012 12:59:24 AM
$76K + A+ benefit package and the $76K is the "average" a year for 1,050 hours of actual class time and a 60% graduation rate? Where do I sign up for that? Grading papers, is that some kind of hardship for the 2 months a year they have off. Public unions should be banned nationwide. The politicians have no business negotiating with our money and can't keep a budget. It has to stop.
quote
lordspoint send a private message View Space | Friends | Playbook |
lordspoint
Participation Meter
All-Star
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 13066
Location: Connecticut
#72
Posted: 9/17/2012 11:27:44 AM

wall

I think the kids and/or parents who want out of their garbage schools should have a choice.

My state doesnt have open borders so charter is the next best thing. I understand why you call their scheme bullshit but at least families who want to get away from failing schools can.

The true "public" schools will be left with smaller enrollment and therefore can maybe help those kids who were born into garbage situations. Maybe they can reach them and turn their lives into a positive.

Of course, I am sure this would be frowned upon by the teachers union bc their membership #'s would drop as they had to get rid of people.

And I would like to call bullshit on their demand that any teacher who gets let go due to a school being closed should be offered 1st right at openings at other schools.....bullshit, compete for the job like anybody else!

 

quote
wallstreetcappers send a private message View Space | Friends | Playbook |
wallstreetcappers
Participation Meter
Covers Linesmen
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 49968
Location: United States
#73
Posted: 9/17/2012 12:34:43 PM
lords,

I disagree about closing schools. If a teacher was working at a school where due to whatever reason the school shut down I think it is fair to give the current teacher first dibs on moving to another school.


quote
lordspoint send a private message View Space | Friends | Playbook |
lordspoint
Participation Meter
All-Star
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 13066
Location: Connecticut
#74
Posted: 9/17/2012 1:18:48 PM

why should teacher A be giving the inside track over teacher B?

shouldnt there be an interview process where all applicants are evaluated and hired after a selection process?

 

quote
wallstreetcappers send a private message View Space | Friends | Playbook |
wallstreetcappers
Participation Meter
Covers Linesmen
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 49968
Location: United States
#75
Posted: 9/17/2012 1:32:47 PM
No..

Its like a company who is closing an office to consolidate, if there are openings at other offices then always the employee has the option of relocating to the other office.

I dont see any rationale for what you are suggesting..not trying to put you down but giving the option to keep an existing job at another location is very common practice.
quote
Forum Index : Politics : Messages Page 3 of 4  1 2 3 4  
You have entered the forum as a GUEST. 
You must login/register to post or reply.