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Author: [Politics] Topic: National Math and Science Initiative... exxxonmobile propaganda adds?
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#1
Posted: 5/24/2012 4:56:09 AM
Some one gave me a link to the exxonmobile website that talks about the USA ranking 25th in the world in math... 

1.Lets solve this

2. Lets invest in our teachers

3. theres no medal for that

4. Lets do whats best for our students

I am wondering what they have to gain here?  Is this image/perception points?  Or is it actually advantageous in the long term prosperity of the company that specifically math and science improve to help with oil/gas and being future oriented?  Or is this from past and history of rockefellerian tradition of investment in education?


45 states have joined together to ensure consistent academic standards across America. (Basically of all of america except...Texas, Nebraska, Wisconsin, Virginia)

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#2
Posted: 5/24/2012 7:58:40 AM
It's tax deductible...
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#3
Posted: 5/24/2012 7:17:10 PM
So it is all about the money in the end... no vision for the future... no tradition of giving to education...

What is most interesting to me is that on the map the states that refuse to increase standards and are happy with USA ranking 25th in math...

It is always interesting to me that certain groups of people want america to get smarter (especially in things like math and logic) while other groups would prefer that america "get on their level"
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#4
Posted: 5/24/2012 8:16:03 PM
Education is a minefield of stupidity. 

Between the Unions, mandated tests, forced curriculum, and overall watered down stupidity of many of the teachers.  We are doomed. 

The answer is not in money necessarily.  


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#5
Posted: 5/24/2012 9:00:19 PM
  just the dumbing down of America
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#6
Posted: 5/25/2012 12:32:19 AM
did I hear (see) someone say unions?
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#7
Posted: 5/25/2012 1:42:37 AM
or more evidence that OJ was innocent
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#8
Posted: 5/25/2012 1:30:30 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by dl36:

So it is all about the money in the end... no vision for the future... no tradition of giving to education...

What is most interesting to me is that on the map the states that refuse to increase standards and are happy with USA ranking 25th in math...

It is always interesting to me that certain groups of people want america to get smarter (especially in things like math and logic) while other groups would prefer that america "get on their level"
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#9
Posted: 5/25/2012 8:13:20 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by rick3117:

Education is a minefield of stupidity. 

Between the Unions, mandated tests, forced curriculum, and overall watered down stupidity of many of the teachers.  We are doomed. 

The answer is not in money necessarily.  




What is the answer in your opinion?

"No Child Left Behind" was all about mandated testing, forced curriculum to teach towards mediocre benchmarks...

and teachers being taught to teach in this manner to keep funding of their school and essentially their job...

I hope we are not doomed and I am hoping that america can embrace what exxonmobile is trying to promote here
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#10
Posted: 5/26/2012 7:53:43 AM
I think our entire society has to change.  I think that summers need to be shorter and the school days need to be longer.  I think that there should be more advanced placement, and better screening for aptitude (not just testing).  The scariest thing I think we need to face is that there is a chance that we will leave some children behind.  I think teaching the class to the least intelligent kid makes a baseline of mediocrity,  I think creating a curriculum for the least motivated is a travesty.  

More college credit courses, less govt mandates.  

Stop making the individual schools pay out the nose to the crony insiders for testing, when it does little to no good. 
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Posted: 5/26/2012 8:30:18 AM

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#12
Posted: 5/26/2012 5:51:24 PM
rick...

in the history of the 21st century... shorter school days/years and furloughs have been the trend...  the exact opposite of what you are talking about for progress... along with less schools/larger class sizes

with the brilliance of  no child left behind... AP classes and specialty classes were not the focus, but rather then teaching to the dumbed down benchmarks of the mediocre standards that funding hinged on...

So the money that was spent on testing was seeing if a school should be funded rather then trying to screen for aptitude... plus a focus on that absolutely scares certain groups of people as minorities and non-english speakers would do better on tests that were more universal in nature... plus like you said.. the testing is just another form of the blank check and senseless spending that the 21st century is used to...

So the curriculum for the least motivated and the benchmark teaching style is what the government mandated with making the funding dependent on this type of evaluation of performance... universities then feel in line pumping out a generation of teachers that were taught this method because it would help them keep their jobs in the "no child left behind" education philosophy...

So I ask since the route of the neo-con has resulted in such a devastating effect on education and students of that era... how so we get the long school years/days?  cutting funding doesnt seem logical to get there...

I like what exxonmobile is doing with emphasizing math and science... not only because it will help their industry but help the country as a whole to compete with other countries (becasue the numbers show that "no child left behind" era failed)...

But like I said math/science are scary to certain groups because it is a more level playing field...

I used to play soccer with a south american guy that was a teacher who taught spanish immersion classes... and over one of many beers we all had after games/practices he explained to me that the kids in immersion already know spanish because that is what is spoken at home... but if they are not taught things like math/science in their language they will fall behind quickly and end up so far behind by the time their english may catch up that they have no chance...

So the theory is to develop their understanding of logic, math, critical thinking in their only language early so that when their english catches up they are ready to compete...

I told him about my early academic work doing intelligence testing/screening for high IQ children using "qualitative" assessments rather then qualitative ones...  which in a nut shell involved cognitive tasks that looked at how you think instead of how much you can regurgitate or how well you speak...

and this was designed to find the einsteins that would fail in the traditional system with traditional testing... but also since it was based on a qualitative of developmental pattern it we tried testing a small sample of mexican/hispanic children and found the numbers to be very similar to the overall caucasian test groups and in fact was able to to identify some high IQ kids that would not test that way because of language... so in some ways it could help look for  the mexican/hispanic einstein with the brain power and ability to help our science/math/industry... rather then the probable life path he/she would have taken if they fell behind and the dropped out of school...

So I agree with you whole heartedly about testing for advance placement/aptitude, not testing for mediocre/insider BS.. I devoted a part of my life in the past to the idea...

The transference was also that if we looked at how high IQ people thought... why not teach their critical thinking/analytic/pattern recognition style of thinking to normal IQ kids to help them think and eventually achieve at a higher level... but once again like I said earlier in the thread... there seems to be some agenda that america "get on their level"
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#13
Posted: 5/26/2012 7:23:44 PM
Dl36 you are one of the brightest posters on here. You should make posts like that more often.
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#14
Posted: 5/27/2012 8:56:19 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by dl36:

rick...

in the history of the 21st century... shorter school days/years and furloughs have been the trend...  the exact opposite of what you are talking about for progress... along with less schools/larger class sizes

with the brilliance of  no child left behind... AP classes and specialty classes were not the focus, but rather then teaching to the dumbed down benchmarks of the mediocre standards that funding hinged on...

So the money that was spent on testing was seeing if a school should be funded rather then trying to screen for aptitude... plus a focus on that absolutely scares certain groups of people as minorities and non-english speakers would do better on tests that were more universal in nature... plus like you said.. the testing is just another form of the blank check and senseless spending that the 21st century is used to...

So the curriculum for the least motivated and the benchmark teaching style is what the government mandated with making the funding dependent on this type of evaluation of performance... universities then feel in line pumping out a generation of teachers that were taught this method because it would help them keep their jobs in the "no child left behind" education philosophy...

So I ask since the route of the neo-con has resulted in such a devastating effect on education and students of that era... how so we get the long school years/days?  cutting funding doesnt seem logical to get there...

I like what exxonmobile is doing with emphasizing math and science... not only because it will help their industry but help the country as a whole to compete with other countries (becasue the numbers show that "no child left behind" era failed)...

But like I said math/science are scary to certain groups because it is a more level playing field...

I used to play soccer with a south american guy that was a teacher who taught spanish immersion classes... and over one of many beers we all had after games/practices he explained to me that the kids in immersion already know spanish because that is what is spoken at home... but if they are not taught things like math/science in their language they will fall behind quickly and end up so far behind by the time their english may catch up that they have no chance...

So the theory is to develop their understanding of logic, math, critical thinking in their only language early so that when their english catches up they are ready to compete...

I told him about my early academic work doing intelligence testing/screening for high IQ children using "qualitative" assessments rather then qualitative ones...  which in a nut shell involved cognitive tasks that looked at how you think instead of how much you can regurgitate or how well you speak...

and this was designed to find the einsteins that would fail in the traditional system with traditional testing... but also since it was based on a qualitative of developmental pattern it we tried testing a small sample of mexican/hispanic children and found the numbers to be very similar to the overall caucasian test groups and in fact was able to to identify some high IQ kids that would not test that way because of language... so in some ways it could help look for  the mexican/hispanic einstein with the brain power and ability to help our science/math/industry... rather then the probable life path he/she would have taken if they fell behind and the dropped out of school...

So I agree with you whole heartedly about testing for advance placement/aptitude, not testing for mediocre/insider BS.. I devoted a part of my life in the past to the idea...

The transference was also that if we looked at how high IQ people thought... why not teach their critical thinking/analytic/pattern recognition style of thinking to normal IQ kids to help them think and eventually achieve at a higher level... but once again like I said earlier in the thread... there seems to be some agenda that america "get on their level"

Agreed.  Furthermore, institutions that are rigidly married to the dogma of failed educational models should be abolished.  IE the department of education.  It is in their interest to keep the status quo. 
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#15
Posted: 5/27/2012 11:34:15 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by rick3117:

I think our entire society has to change.  I think that summers need to be shorter and the school days need to be longer.  

I think that there should be more advanced placement, and better screening for aptitude (not just testing).  The scariest thing I think we need to face is that there is a chance that we will leave some children behind.  I think teaching the class to the least intelligent kid makes a baseline of mediocrity,  I think creating a curriculum for the least motivated is a travesty.  

More college credit courses, less govt mandates.  

Stop making the individual schools pay out the nose to the crony insiders for testing, when it does little to no good. 


Not sure I agree with you on this one my friend. You do make some good points on aptitude testing which is something that doesn't seem to be very common.

Perhaps you will find this an eye opening, and most of all informative read.

Longer class times and trying the 'same old same old' is probably not the answer. Both our countries could use a little innovation in education initiatives.

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#16
Posted: 5/27/2012 11:48:49 AM
Greg Palast exposing the Bush and Obama education failures, testing stupidity, and cronyism it takes to ruin a country's chances at success. 

Link 
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#17
Posted: 5/27/2012 2:49:59 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by rick3117:


Agreed.  Furthermore, institutions that are rigidly married to the dogma of failed educational models should be abolished.  IE the department of education.  It is in their interest to keep the status quo. 


When I first said that I was supporting Ron Paul I thought about his idea of getting rid of the dept of education considering how much I value education and think it is vital to our being competitive in the world...

That is why I like the fact that a company like exxonmobile is putting some emphasis on promoting fields that would actually help them be competitive in their field... makes sense for them from a business and national stand point...

I actually did not go the fafsa route for my post graduate degree...  I was given a grant... which was like a loan, but rather then paying it back in money all I had to do was work in the field 2 years for every year they subsidized my education...

I also got funding from a former employer that saw promise with my hard work and performance that also subsidized my education... 

While I was doing an internship (usually never paid) for my program I was given a paid position because the company encouraged me to take a job position which ended up being mutually beneficial because they paid me less because I did not have my degree completely and was "double dipping" and rather then doing free work to get hours for my degree I was getting paid in a real position... once I finished my degree there was no problem finding a job because I already had one...

Point being my experience is that private companies will help pay for and support education for people that look like they can benefit them... which is simply just good business... It also rewards the best and brightest rather then just teaching to the lowest common denominator...

leaving everything up to the dept of education results in teaching with the moronic practices dictated by the government does not translate into jobs or competitiveness in the world market place...

I shutter to think what the "no child left behind" education era will not only do to the intelligence of that generation, but how it will effect business. innovation and the economy...
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#18
Posted: 5/27/2012 3:35:17 PM
It is not fortuitous that the future state of education is superlatively sliding in the West under intense austerity pressure. Education has a strong pull on the govt purse, and in a sphere of economic-growth decayed economies, politicians are seeking to fracture disbursement channels. Education systems are structured to assemble specific types of adroit-citizenry; however, the antiquity of the current workshop is still assembling the previous decade's prototype. The bulk of the current reform is exculpated as a cost-cutting agent, instead of innovative policy transformation that renders necessary a turbulent phase, where the state of wedlock to the existing architecture of the system is torn down and the infallibility of refinement for the new skilled economy can be established. In the current climate, policy-makers have obliterated public innovative-expectations that place a premium on students, replacing them with more homeopathic ones that bow to the invisible agenda, where profiteers collect billion from programs like No Child Left Behind, tapping into federal funds for private investors when statute law pledges a plunder from profits to corporate clients. The education system requires innovation for survival, as policy and especially planning fail in that any strategy to subsist must directly confront the reality of the natural law to fail/collapse that protract from the science relevant to the review of living organisms and human enterprise into our social and economic establishments.
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#19
Posted: 5/28/2012 7:35:55 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by rick3117:

Greg Palast exposing the Bush education failures, testing stupidity, and cronyism it takes to ruin a country's chances at success. 

Link 


interesting article... starts off with...

"This month marks the 10th anniversary of the passage of No Child Left Behind.
Before George W. Bush invaded Iraq he knew he would have to invade our classrooms first.

While the occupation of Iraq has ended the brutal occupation of our classrooms by the Forces of Stupid remains."



We should discuss this further...some good opinions there
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#20
Posted: 5/29/2012 8:20:04 AM
The bottom line is that just as with every ill in our country there are those that profit from the status quo.  Yes, people actually profit (as per the article I posted), from the arbitrary mandatory testing that funnels money out of our schools and away from the students to corporate cronies. 
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Posted: 5/29/2012 9:43:16 AM
The architects of “No Child Left Behind” manipulated a methodical system which has been in all manner and ways bane in the sphere of education, into a prosperous trade in the sphere of corporate profits. No Child spawned a “high-stakes” model for testing through which the corporate endowed could swindle education funds. The marriage of education to corporate business was not only an acquisition where the private sector was confer of a benefit, but those in compliance and obedient to the Bush circle all were rewarded in the triumphant implementation of “outcome-based-education”. G.W’s inaugural senior education advisor transitioned from a public bureaucrat into a private sector lobbyist, steering corporate clients to the promise of federal funds. The figures indicate the senior advisor rendered in excess of four-million dollars by 05’ securing lobbying contracts. All this while the Dept. of Defense was confronting recruitment decline by spending thousands of millions of your tax dollars on programs modeled to charm, bait and hook potential recruits from the Pentagon’s youth harvesting penetration of the school room.
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#22
Posted: 5/29/2012 4:54:05 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by selkooth:

It is not fortuitous that the future state of education is superlatively sliding in the West under intense austerity pressure. Education has a strong pull on the govt purse, and in a sphere of economic-growth decayed economies, politicians are seeking to fracture disbursement channels. Education systems are structured to assemble specific types of adroit-citizenry; however, the antiquity of the current workshop is still assembling the previous decade's prototype. The bulk of the current reform is exculpated as a cost-cutting agent, instead of innovative policy transformation that renders necessary a turbulent phase, where the state of wedlock to the existing architecture of the system is torn down and the infallibility of refinement for the new skilled economy can be established. In the current climate, policy-makers have obliterated public innovative-expectations that place a premium on students, replacing them with more homeopathic ones that bow to the invisible agenda, where profiteers collect billion from programs like No Child Left Behind, tapping into federal funds for private investors when statute law pledges a plunder from profits to corporate clients. The education system requires innovation for survival, as policy and especially planning fail in that any strategy to subsist must directly confront the reality of the natural law to fail/collapse that protract from the science relevant to the review of living organisms and human enterprise into our social and economic establishments.


Thank you skeltooth for taking the time to respond to my thread...

I think on some level the funding of education is important... but where it comes from is a different issue that perhaps this thread brings up with exxonmobile...

I understand the concept of the down economy leading to the idea of cost cutting and putting education on the chopping block... and perhaps reforms in education are needed, but simply  taking money away is not an answer as is simply throwing money at the problem...

Perhaps with innovation/science/progress/enterprise leading the way and companies backing this goal is the way to go because  no child left behind has shown us that government will seek to exploit the education rather then facilitate success... and is willing to threaten the the long term prosperity and economy...

But success in education requires an understanding of a longer term developmental paradigm that the creators of no child left behind lack in their shortsightedness and some would claim actual plot to put the sabotage the country and put it into a "dark ages"....
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#23
Posted: 5/30/2012 2:13:42 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by rick3117:

Greg Palast exposing the Bush and Obama education failures, testing stupidity, and cronyism it takes to ruin a country's chances at success. 

Link 

The core of No Child Left Behind is the early-age test. And here's what they're testing. The following is taken from the actual practice test given eight-year-olds in the State of New York in 2006. The test determined which children should advance, which should be left behind in the third grade.

Ready, class? The year 1999 was a big one for the Williams sisters. In February, Serena won her first pro singles championship. In March, the sisters met for the first time in a tournament final. Venus won. And at doubles tennis, the Williams girls could not seem to lose that year.

And here's one of the four questions:

The story says that in 1999, the sisters could not seem to lose at doubles tennis. This probably means when they played

A two matches in one day

B against each other

C with two balls at once

D as partners

OK, class, do you know the answer? (By the way, I didn't cheat: There's nothing else about "doubles" in the text.) For your information, I got this from a school in which more than half the students live below the poverty line. There is no tennis court. There is no tennis court in any of the poverty area schools of New York. But out in the Hamptons, every school has a tennis court. In Forest Hills and Westchester there are as many tennis courts as the schoolkids have live-in maids. Which kids are best prepared to answer the question about "doubles tennis"? The eight-year-olds in Brownsville who've never seen a tennis match or the kids whose mommies disappear for two hours every Wednesday with Enrique the tennis coach?

This sound alot like classism... I am not one to be quick to play the race card like the alias/alias supporters on here... but I could see how this looks like "No rich child left behind"
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Posted: 5/30/2012 9:57:48 AM
One factor the govt view as a well-grounded agent to advance social mobility is education. The govt does sponsor steep spending levels on selected disbursement channels in education to the financial disadvantaged, which could be viewed as a strategy to advance social mobility, assisting to refine the potential of gifted individuals from less fortunate backgrounds. From time to time, a govt has the comfort of being judged on a sole maneuver, a political checkmate, and in the realms of education where a govt has the power to act, comes a view that govt need to do something and be seen to worry about the status of the less fortunate, since everyone has a vote. The strategy of action triggered from this view has produced policy failure, and only made the issue of inequality more severe through vote purchasing. Both society and the economy are not physical systems which can be placed on scales and measured precisely, so, economics rather than the shades of politics that are currently guiding the policy of education, would be a more suitable apparatus. If failed policy and collapsed planning have subjected the system to a decree where the only entitlement of education for a student is the one they can afford to purchase, maybe the economy requires recalibration. Why Germany is an export machine is in the superiority of the configuration of its banking system to which their smaller companies are endeared with the same level of access to financial assets as more prominent companies. An advantage over the U.S. in that Germany’s workforce is more productive, skilled and endowed with a greater income capacity at the manufacturing level than their American counterparts. The political pollution that business has to operate in the American system forces big business to behavior in the way that it does, to survive. The identical pollution is decaying small business and purging the middle class. The Dept. of Defense was mentioned in my previous post, for within the "No Child Act" is a provision which grants military recruiters access to students’ records.
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#25
Posted: 5/30/2012 5:05:28 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by DiscoD69:



Not sure I agree with you on this one my friend. You do make some good points on aptitude testing which is something that doesn't seem to be very common.

Perhaps you will find this an eye opening, and most of all informative read.

Longer class times and trying the 'same old same old' is probably not the answer. Both our countries could use a little innovation in education initiatives.



disco... what is your solution?
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