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[Politics] Topic: George Zimmerman Case Discovery |
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14daroad |
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#151 Posted: 5/23/2012 8:45:10 AM QUOTE Originally Posted by mattbrot:
I kind of agree here. It is funny how all the focus seems to be on whether or not Zimmerman was justified in shooting Trayvon based on self defense in response to the fight.
However, a HUGE question to me and one that I imagine will come up in the trial (although I know nothing about the the the legal process and so I could be completely off here) is why the hell did he feel it was necessary to approach Trayvon and get close enough to get in a fight with him in the first place? Regardless of who initiated the fight it could of been avoided if Zimmerman notified Trayvon from a distance that the police have been notified.
People like to say that Trayvon put himself in that position by acting "suspiciously" but can't the same be said for ZImmerman? Why did he put himself in that position?
There is no evidence anywhere, at all, that Zimmerman approached Martin.
So that is the answer to your question. |
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#152 Posted: 5/23/2012 8:49:43 AM QUOTE Originally Posted by dl36:
arguing with people who insist zimmerman is innocent is like people who will insist that OJ was 100% innocent...
The will only see facts that back up their preconceived notion... and regardless what you say the remained convinced that you are wrong unless you agree with them that he is innocent...
Can you please provide an example of this?
Which "facts" are being ignored? |
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#153 Posted: 5/23/2012 10:41:40 AM QUOTE Originally Posted by 14daroad:
There is no evidence anywhere, at all, that Zimmerman approached Martin.
So that is the answer to your question.
no evidence to the contrary either
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cashin |
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#154 Posted: 5/23/2012 10:42:03 AM The fact remains that Z went looking for trouble where no trouble existed & he created & brought that trouble on himself & when things went badly for him, he shot & killed an innocent 17 yr old kid who was doing nothing wrong.
I seriuously doubt Martin (who was staying with his Dad not far from where it happened) was out that nite looking for someone to beat up & the way he fought tells me he felt he was in danger from this stranger who never identified himself & was stalking/following him for no reason, regardless of how the altercation started. Also, doubt seriously that Z had no other recourse but to shoot & kill - |
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bowlslit |
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#155 Posted: 5/23/2012 1:26:17 PM QUOTE Originally Posted by cashin:
The fact remains that Z went looking for trouble where no trouble existed & he created & brought that trouble on himself & when things went badly for him, he shot & killed an innocent 17 yr old kid who was doing nothing wrong.
I seriuously doubt Martin (who was staying with his Dad not far from where it happened) was out that nite looking for someone to beat up & the way he fought tells me he felt he was in danger from this stranger who never identified himself & was stalking/following him for no reason, regardless of how the altercation started. Also, doubt seriously that Z had no other recourse but to shoot & kill -
Sentence one is no fact on two counts. Zimmerman didn't go looking for trouble and we don't know for sure that Trayvon wasn't casing the joint. (two meanings)
I don't believe Trayvon was looking for someone to beat up either. The whole thing is a tragedy. He crossed a line from just giving Zimmerman a beat down to pounding his head into the ground which could have caused brain trauma or worse.
Why do you give Trayvon enough slack to take it beyond a beat down? Since Trayvon had no signs of injury from Zimmerman, whay grounds did he have to punch him in the first place? The gun wasn't out or he would have mentioned it to his girlfriend.
No other recourse, what if the next blow knocks him out? The attackee has no burden to assume the attacker will be nice. |
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bowlslit |
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#156 Posted: 5/23/2012 1:31:50 PM QUOTE Originally Posted by dl36:
Ive been commenting on this topic not being political, but it seems the linesmen are trying to keep the obsessive flooding of the this by the alias/alias supporters away from the rest of the forums...
Like the OJ case... alot of people will argue endlessly how he is innocent regardless of facts, or alternate perspectives... Just some people are bent on trying to assimilate any possible detail that would justify or confirming the preconceived assumption...
If the glove does not fit... you must acquit 
I think by now we are all sick and tired of your antics. All you seem to do is comment on the commentors and provide little original thought of your own.
Dont even bother trying in vain to explain yourself, we're not buying it. Just quit the bullshit and provide some value to the forums from NOW on. |
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#157 Posted: 5/23/2012 1:41:11 PM QUOTE Originally Posted by bowlslit:
Sentence one is no fact on two counts. Zimmerman didn't go looking for trouble and we don't know for sure that Trayvon wasn't casing the joint. (two meanings)
I don't believe Trayvon was looking for someone to beat up either. The whole thing is a tragedy. He crossed a line from just giving Zimmerman a beat down to pounding his head into the ground which could have caused brain trauma or worse.
Why do you give Trayvon enough slack to take it beyond a beat down? Since Trayvon had no signs of injury from Zimmerman, whay grounds did he have to punch him in the first place? The gun wasn't out or he would have mentioned it to his girlfriend.
No other recourse, what if the next blow knocks him out? The attackee has no burden to assume the attacker will be nice.
Well, the only thing I've heard of the girfriends acct is that they were talking & M told her about Z following him & that he thought he'd lost him. She told him to run & he said no, I'll just walk fast. And then the exchange between the 2 that was different from Z's version and some rustling & then the phone went dead. As if it was Z who approached M not the other way around. But we've been over this before... |
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#158 Posted: 5/23/2012 2:01:10 PM Beyond that, why would anyone believe Z's version of how it started anyway? Martiin could have tried to get away from him & Z held or grabbed him for all we know if even to just hold him there til the cops came. Here's a 17yr old kid being watched & followed by an older man he doesn't know from Adam - so if Z did threaten him or grab him, not hard to see why Martin would have popped him in the face & maybe think he was fighting for his life. |
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#159 Posted: 5/23/2012 2:19:32 PM [Quote: Originally Posted by cashin]
Well, the only thing I've heard of the girfriends acct is that they were talking & M told her about Z following him & that he thought he'd lost him. She told him to run & he said no, I'll just walk fast. And then the exchange between the 2 that was different from Z's version and some rustling & then the phone went dead. As if it was Z who approached M not the other way around. But we've been over this before...
[/Quote
Please remind me why it even matters if Zimmerman was following Trayvon?
When did having someone following you give you grounds to pound their head into a sidewalk? |
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#160 Posted: 5/23/2012 2:20:21 PM Also, kinda doubt he was casing houses while talking all the time to his gf on his cell in his Dad's fiance's neighborhood where he was staying. Much more likely he was just watching the gm & wanted to get out of the house to smoke a lil reefer, get some skittles/tea & talk to his girlfriend - |
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#161 Posted: 5/23/2012 2:22:55 PM QUOTE Originally Posted by cashin:
Beyond that, why would anyone believe Z's version of how it started anyway? Martiin could have tried to get away from him & Z held or grabbed him for all we know if even to just hold him there til the cops came. Here's a 17yr old kid being watched & followed by an older man he doesn't know from Adam - so if Z did threaten him or grab him, not hard to see why Martin would have popped him in the face & maybe think he was fighting for his life.
People with guns don't go around involving themselves in a tussle. Anyone who gets in a wrastling match is stupid for being close enough for that match to start.
There is no evidence to suggest that Zimmerman was lying. What is unbelievable and material that you believe is false and why? |
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#162 Posted: 5/23/2012 2:25:40 PM QUOTE Originally Posted by cashin:
Also, kinda doubt he was casing houses while talking all the time to his gf on his cell in his Dad's fiance's neighborhood where he was staying. Much more likely he was just watching the gm & wanted to get out of the house to smoke a lil reefer, get some skittles/tea & talk to his girlfriend -
Since he had already been found with burglary tools we can assume that he is always casing. Especially since his stay was short term instead of long term. Where is your common sense and why are you so adamantly protectecting the dude who thinks fistfights come before verbal confrontation? |
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#163 Posted: 5/23/2012 2:35:49 PM QUOTE Originally Posted by mattbrot:
no evidence to the contrary either
Actually, George Zimmerman's statement is contrary evidence.
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#164 Posted: 5/23/2012 2:36:44 PM QUOTE Originally Posted by cashin:
Beyond that, why would anyone believe Z's version of how it started anyway?
Because every available piece of actual evidence supports Zimmerman's account.
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#165 Posted: 5/23/2012 2:40:43 PM QUOTE Originally Posted by cashin:
Well, the only thing I've heard of the girfriends acct is that they were talking & M told her about Z following him & that he thought he'd lost him. She told him to run & he said no, I'll just walk fast. And then the exchange between the 2 that was different from Z's version and some rustling & then the phone went dead. As if it was Z who approached M not the other way around. But we've been over this before...
It seems commonly accepted that Zimmerman lost sight of Martin.
So, why didn't Martin just run back to the townhouse?
And, if Martin's girlfriend actually hear part of this encounter and it was so scary, why did she contact nobody in the Martin family, no law enforcement agency, no attorney, or nobody in the media?
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#166 Posted: 5/23/2012 2:57:57 PM QUOTE Originally Posted by 14daroad:
Because every available piece of actual evidence supports Zimmerman's account.
What evidence?
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#167 Posted: 5/23/2012 3:02:36 PM QUOTE Originally Posted by mattbrot:
What evidence?
Um,
1. The injuries he suffered.
2. Witness statement saying Martin was beating him "MMA Style"
3. The distance of the shot that was fired to kill Martin.
All support Zimmerman which lend credibility to his statements regarding the event. |
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#168 Posted: 5/23/2012 3:09:53 PM Mattbrott,
Why does it matter that Zimmerman approached Trayvon? Is there a law on the books that prohibits such an activity?
Is there a law that prohibits assault? Who bears the evidence that an assault took place? |
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#169 Posted: 5/23/2012 3:37:37 PM QUOTE Originally Posted by bowlslit: Mattbrott,
Why does it matter that Zimmerman approached Trayvon? Is there a law on the books that prohibits such an activity?
Is there a law that prohibits assault? Who bears the evidence that an assault took place?
It matters because we do not know the nature of how he approached him. If he approached him in an aggressive nature looking for a fight than he just simply got his behind kicked.
It matters because if he approached him in an aggressive nature than maybe the story can be flipped. That is that maybe Trayvon was "standing his ground" and in the process of doing so just happened to kick Zimmerman's behind. I am not sure what the law's stance is on this but I guess that an "assault" and being in on the losing end of a fight between two men are two different things.
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#170 Posted: 5/23/2012 3:39:44 PM QUOTE Originally Posted by 14daroad:
Um,
1. The injuries he suffered. This is just evidence that he got his behind kicked. It tells us nothing about how the event went down.
2. Witness statement saying Martin was beating him "MMA Style" You mean these witnesses (this story came out about 5 hours ago)?
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/trayvon-martin-shooting-witnesses-change-stories-ahead-zimmerman-133743219.html
3. The distance of the shot that was fired to kill Martin. This is evidence that they were close to each other. This can be viewed any number of ways.
All support Zimmerman which lend credibility to his statements regarding the event. |
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#171 Posted: 5/23/2012 3:40:25 PM link from above post is not good. Just copy and paste into your browser.
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/trayvon-martin-shooting-witnesses-change-stories-ahead-zimmerman-133743219.html
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#172 Posted: 5/23/2012 3:43:12 PM QUOTE Originally Posted by mattbrot:
It matters because we do not know the nature of how he approached him. If he approached him in an aggressive nature looking for a fight than he just simply got his behind kicked.
It matters because if he approached him in an aggressive nature than maybe the story can be flipped. That is that maybe Trayvon was "standing his ground" and in the process of doing so just happened to kick Zimmerman's behind. I am not sure what the law's stance is on this but I guess that an "assault" and being in on the losing end of a fight between two men are two different things.
We know some of the circumstances about the confrontation from Trayvons girlfriend. Trayvon asked him why he was following him and Zimmerman responded with "What are you doing around here?
Doesnt sound all that aggressive to me?
Makes more sense that Zimmerman was sucker punched.
Do you give Zimmerman ANY benefit of the doubt for having called police MANY times before and no similar outcomes? |
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#173 Posted: 5/23/2012 3:46:11 PM QUOTE Originally Posted by mattbrot:
link from above post is not good. Just copy and paste into your browser.
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/trayvon-martin-shooting-witnesses-change-stories-ahead-zimmerman-133743219.html
Read this story already and dont give it much credence. I'll believe witness statements as close to the incident as possible....before alterier motives take hold.
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#174 Posted: 5/23/2012 4:26:37 PM QUOTE Originally Posted by bowlslit:
We know some of the circumstances about the confrontation from Trayvons girlfriend. Trayvon asked him why he was following him and Zimmerman responded with "What are you doing around here?
Doesnt sound all that aggressive to me?
Makes more sense that Zimmerman was sucker punched.
Do you give Zimmerman ANY benefit of the doubt for having called police MANY times before and no similar outcomes?
Trouble is, that's not what Z said. In his version, he said Martin came up from behind & the side as he was goin back to his car & said something to the effect of "you got a problem, homie" to which he replied "no' & then T supposedly said "well, now you do" & then sucker punched him. And also something like, "now you're gonna die". Total bs imo -
Z had serious anger probs & was also prejudiced & overzealous to say the least. The # of 911 calls, & some of his aquantainces as well as some of his past co-workers & neighbors all attest to that. And in his 911 call, he shows that he thought T was already up to no good & that he was going to try to stop another fool who always gets away.
Trayvon was no angel & he may have liked to play the cool, tough gangsta type which so many do these days, but he was well-liked, not known for getting into fights at school & had never even been arrested. And in the jewelery/screwdriver deal, he was only questioned, not arrested & they never even called his parents or school about it so they must have believed him. |
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#175 Posted: 5/23/2012 4:31:50 PM QUOTE Originally Posted by 14daroad:
Because every available piece of actual evidence supports Zimmerman's account.
Maybe, but in this case it doesn't tell the story of what happened exactly or the how & why. |
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