Trayvon Martin shooting: no grand jury for Zimmerman

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Author: [Politics] Topic: Trayvon Martin shooting: no grand jury for Zimmerman
dl36 PM dl36
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Posted: 4/9/2012 10:31:23 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by ClubDirt:



you have to understand how it works, particularly with this prosecutor.  she doesn't give a garbage about a grand jury.  she wants to make her own decision.  besides, if she is going to charge second degree murder or manslaughter, she doesn't need a grand jury and grand juries are almost never used for those charges. 

she also couldn't give a garbage about the sanford police department.

now, i'm not saying she will or won't charge him.  only she knows that.  however, and i'm sure the media will darn it up and distort this in every possible way, but don't assume from this story that he won't be charged.  if anything, it's more likely he will be charged, ujust with second degree murder or manslauughter. 




It is only the racist wackos that have been spun into a tizzy about this whole thing
cashin PM cashin
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Posted: 4/10/2012 1:22:09 AM
QUOTE

Originally Posted by depeche2:

I think this guarantees he will be charged.  If the prosecutor wasn't sure if she could charge she'd go to grand jury to see if they agreed.  This signals to me that she thinks a GJ is unnecessary because she has what she needs.  But it won't be first-degree.  It'll be a lesser charge.  I say charges are filed by the end of the week.

That sounds about right. In a high profile deal like this, I'm sure they want to build as strong a case as possible before charging him.

bowlslit PM bowlslit
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Posted: 4/10/2012 10:24:13 AM

Hopefully Angela took a look at Trayvons twitter account to see what kind of a person he really was. Just the same she looked at Zimmermans history to see the same.

Anyone who has taken the time to read the last 150 or so tweets from the alleged twitter account will see that Trayvon is not the innocent little lad the liberal media has tried to paint him as.

Meanwhile, Zimmerman had allegedly mentored a couple of black students and was accused of assaulting a police officer.

“I was arrested in July of 2005 for assault on a law enforcement officer and resisting arrest with violence.  Both charges were immediately dropped to resisting arrest without violence, and then dropped all together.

“I was in an altercation with an undercover officer that was taking part in an ATF sting for underage drinking in UCF.  He never told me he was an officer and assaulted me first.  Shortly after that, in September 2005, the same unit was conducting a sting at UCF and an officer was killed by an OPD officer because he discharged his weapon and did not identify himself.

“My father is a retired Magistrate Judge for the Supreme Court of Virginia and my mother was a deputy clerk of court for over 20 years.  I hold law enforcement officers in the highest regaurd (sic) as I hope to one day become one.  I would never have touched a police officer.  Prior to and since that I have not been arrested.

Thank you and I hope to join you in January.

George M. Zimmerman.



 
cashin PM cashin
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Posted: 4/10/2012 11:40:49 AM

Looks like daddy won't be able to get Z out of his latest jam without at least facing a jury of his peers. Now that he's graduated from simple assault to manslaughter. Guess those anger management classes weren't too effective in his case -

On the other hand, while maybe not a model citizen, Martin has no history of violence or even getting into fights at school.

bowlslit PM bowlslit
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Posted: 4/10/2012 2:00:56 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by cashin:

Looks like daddy won't be able to get Z out of his latest jam without at least facing a jury of his peers. Now that he's graduated from simple assault to manslaughter. Guess those anger management classes weren't too effective in his case -

On the other hand, while maybe not a model citizen, Martin has no history of violence or even getting into fights at school.

Except for the alleged incident with a bus driver. There is a first time for everything and Trayvon was likely pissed off at the world for getting busted with mary jane and womens jewelery.

djbrow PM djbrow
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Posted: 4/10/2012 3:15:48 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by bowlslit:

Hopefully Angela took a look at Trayvons twitter account to see what kind of a person he really was. Just the same she looked at Zimmermans history to see the same.

Anyone who has taken the time to read the last 150 or so tweets from the alleged twitter account will see that Trayvon is not the innocent little lad the liberal media has tried to paint him as.

Meanwhile, Zimmerman had allegedly mentored a couple of black students and was accused of assaulting a police officer.

“I was arrested in July of 2005 for assault on a law enforcement officer and resisting arrest with violence.  Both charges were immediately dropped to resisting arrest without violence, and then dropped all together.

“I was in an altercation with an undercover officer that was taking part in an ATF sting for underage drinking in UCF.  He never told me he was an officer and assaulted me first.  Shortly after that, in September 2005, the same unit was conducting a sting at UCF and an officer was killed by an OPD officer because he discharged his weapon and did not identify himself.

“My father is a retired Magistrate Judge for the Supreme Court of Virginia and my mother was a deputy clerk of court for over 20 years.  I hold law enforcement officers in the highest regaurd (sic) as I hope to one day become one.  I would never have touched a police officer.  Prior to and since that I have not been arrested.

Thank you and I hope to join you in January.

George M. Zimmerman.



 

While Zimmerman's background may be relevant to determine his actions on that evening, Martin's would not. In self-defense, the one making the claim may only take into account that which he had knowledge of at that moment, your cherry-picking of their alleged pasts withstanding.

bowlslit PM bowlslit
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Posted: 4/10/2012 3:21:53 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by djbrow:

While Zimmerman's background may be relevant to determine his actions on that evening, Martin's would not. In self-defense, the one making the claim may only take into account that which he had knowledge of at that moment, your cherry-picking of their alleged pasts withstanding.

I disagree. If Zimmermans account is factual or mostly factual, there is a high likelihood that he wouldn't have had to defend himself had Trayvon not escalated the verbal confrontation to physical.

Zimmerman on the 911 call was petrified when mentioning that Trayvon was comming to check him out. Plus, he knew the cops were on the way. Trayvon did not.

djbrow PM djbrow
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Posted: 4/10/2012 3:31:50 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by bowlslit:

I disagree. If Zimmermans account is factual or mostly factual, there is a high likelihood that he wouldn't have had to defend himself had Trayvon not escalated the verbal confrontation to physical.

Zimmerman on the 911 call was petrified when mentioning that Trayvon was comming to check him out. Plus, he knew the cops were on the way. Trayvon did not.

Your disagreement has no legal merit.

Martin's background has zero relevance to the case unless ZImmerman had information about him specifically that would enhance his belief he was in danger.

None, zero, nada.

Zimmerman's background would only be relevant for impeachment purposes under cross-examination,at trial, but can be a factor for a decision to indict or charge. However, it cannot be used in the case-in-chief at trial.

 

bowlslit PM bowlslit
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Posted: 4/10/2012 3:45:49 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by djbrow:

Your disagreement has no legal merit.

Martin's background has zero relevance to the case unless ZImmerman had information about him specifically that would enhance his belief he was in danger.

None, zero, nada.

Zimmerman's background would only be relevant for impeachment purposes under cross-examination,at trial, but can be a factor for a decision to indict or charge. However, it cannot be used in the case-in-chief at trial.

 

I'm not talking about any legal merit.

All I'm saying is that I hope Angela looks into both of their backgrounds for her to get a better idea of their overall charactor.

Hypothetical: If Trayvon had a history of assualt or Zimmerman had a history of shooting troublemakers without cause, you'd better believe it would be relevant, especially in sentencing.

djbrow PM djbrow
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Posted: 4/10/2012 3:54:56 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by bowlslit:

I'm not talking about any legal merit.

All I'm saying is that I hope Angela looks into both of their backgrounds for her to get a better idea of their overall charactor.

Hypothetical: If Trayvon had a history of assualt or Zimmerman had a history of shooting troublemakers without cause, you'd better believe it would be relevant, especially in sentencing.

TM's history is irrelevant as to whether he was a victim of a crime unless that history was known to Zimmerman at the time of the attack and was the basis for his self-defense claim.

Zimmerman's history, outside of actual criminal convictions, is irrelevant to sentencing.

bowlslit PM bowlslit
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Posted: 4/10/2012 3:56:07 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by djbrow:

TM's history is irrelevant to whether he was a victim of a crime unless that history was known to Zimmerman at the time of the attack and was the basis for his self-defense claim.

Zimmerman's history, outside of actual criminal convictions, is irrelevant to sentencing.

DJBROW THATS WHY I USED THE WORD HYPOTHETICAL

DiscoD69 PM DiscoD69
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Posted: 4/10/2012 4:23:23 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by bowlslit:

DJBROW THATS WHY I USED THE WORD HYPOTHETICAL


Except you say "hypothetical" right after you spent a month trying to use TM's past as some sort of justification for him deserving to be killed!?

Now it's hypothetical 
bowlslit PM bowlslit
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Posted: 4/10/2012 4:28:29 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by DiscoD69:


Except you say "hypothetical" right after you spent a month trying to use TM's past as some sort of justification for him deserving to be killed!?

Now it's hypothetical 

Disco. I used hypothetical for that sentence only as it would pertain to Angela's perception of each persons charactor.

I personally believe Zimmerman is a better person than what he is portrayed and after reading Trayvons tweets, I personally believe he is worse than portrayed. I'm not saying he didn't have good qualities, I'm saying sometime in the last few years he started heading down the wrong path.

Have you read his tweets?

depeche2 PM depeche2
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Posted: 4/10/2012 5:34:04 PM
Zimmerman's lawyers quit because he's disappeared.  Sounds like he knows he's gonna be charged and isn't gonna go willingly.  They can't be a party to such activity.  I wonder if he's still in the country.  I would think there's a good chance he's not and never will be.
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Posted: 4/10/2012 5:38:50 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by bowlslit:

Disco. I used hypothetical for that sentence only as it would pertain to Angela's perception of each persons charactor.

I personally believe Zimmerman is a better person than what he is portrayed and after reading Trayvons tweets, I personally believe he is worse than portrayed. I'm not saying he didn't have good qualities, I'm saying sometime in the last few years he started heading down the wrong path.

Have you read his tweets?

Do you KNOW those are his tweets are you just believing what someone tells you or that someone tells you they are?

Just like that photograph of Martin flashing the gang sign. You know those were retracted right, because of lack of verification it was him.

Do you KNOW what Zimmerman's verision of events are or just what you have been told?

This is what I mean by cherrypicking. I don't KNOW what happened and am not in a position to make a judgment until I have a better idea, which may never happen.

 

depeche2 PM depeche2
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Posted: 4/10/2012 5:43:55 PM
Zimmerman is probably in the south of France or something like that.  My guess is this will become one of those cases where they work years to find and extradite the criminal.  George got the hell outta dodge.  He's guilty as sin.
J_Galt PM J_Galt
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Posted: 4/10/2012 5:45:35 PM
@#39

not a bad move, in my opinion

with a 1,000,000 dollar dead or alive bounty on my head, I would run all the way to a scandinavian country.

Their the " pasty white " panthers would have to put a price on my head
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J_Galt PM J_Galt
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Posted: 4/10/2012 5:46:58 PM
In all seriousness, what countries will extradite for:

manslaughter,
reckless endangerment, etc

I know most will extradite for murder
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J_Galt PM J_Galt
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Posted: 4/10/2012 5:50:33 PM
@#41
George got the hell outta dodge.  He's guilty as sin.






OR
he ran because there is a 1,000,000 dollars dead or alive bounty on his head.


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depeche2 PM depeche2
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Posted: 4/10/2012 5:50:59 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by J_Galt:

In all seriousness, what countries will extradite for:

manslaughter,
reckless endangerment, etc

I know most will extradite for murder


I'm not sure, but I bet by now Z knows the answer.

Yep, just another innocent guy on the run.  Nothing to see here.
djbrow PM djbrow
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Posted: 4/10/2012 5:51:55 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by bowlslit:

DJBROW THATS WHY I USED THE WORD HYPOTHETICAL

Your hypo is still wrong re: Martin.

It doesn't matter what Martin's past is re: a self-defense claim by Zimmerman unless he knew about that past. Let me illustrate with two real life examples:

Example 1: John Smith heard John Doe say he was going to a car to get his gun and come back and shoot him. John Smith previously knew that John Doe had shot someone. John Doe went to his car to retrieve his phone so he could come back and call the police. In the dark, John Smith told John Doe to "drop it or he would eat a bullet." John Doe raised the phone and said "over my dead body." John Smith, believing he was raising a gun, shot John Doe, killing him.  John Smith succesfully argued self-defense.

Example 2: John Smith and John Doe had a physical altercation. John Smith heard John Doe say he was running to his car. John Smith feared John Doe was going to get a gun. John Smith walked back towards the house with hands in his pockets. It was dark and John Smith could not see clearly. John Doe screamed, "I will kill you." John Doe actually had a gun when he screamed that but John Smith was not aware of that at the moment. John Smith shot him. John Smith was convicted of 2nd degree murder, despite arguing self-defense or manslaughter.

The difference in these cases was the awareness of the shooter of the other individual.

bowlslit PM bowlslit
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Posted: 4/10/2012 6:00:28 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by djbrow:

Do you KNOW those are his tweets are you just believing what someone tells you or that someone tells you they are?

Just like that photograph of Martin flashing the gang sign. You know those were retracted right, because of lack of verification it was him.

Do you KNOW what Zimmerman's verision of events are or just what you have been told?

This is what I mean by cherrypicking. I don't KNOW what happened and am not in a position to make a judgment until I have a better idea, which may never happen.

 

I'm 95% sure this is his account

 

bowlslit PM bowlslit
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Posted: 4/10/2012 6:04:36 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by djbrow:

Your hypo is still wrong re: Martin.

It doesn't matter what Martin's past is re: a self-defense claim by Zimmerman unless he knew about that past. Let me illustrate with two real life examples:

Example 1: John Smith heard John Doe say he was going to a car to get his gun and come back and shoot him. John Smith previously knew that John Doe had shot someone. John Doe went to his car to retrieve his phone so he could come back and call the police. In the dark, John Smith told John Doe to "drop it or he would eat a bullet." John Doe raised the phone and said "over my dead body." John Smith, believing he was raising a gun, shot John Doe, killing him.  John Smith succesfully argued self-defense.

Example 2: John Smith and John Doe had a physical altercation. John Smith heard John Doe say he was running to his car. John Smith feared John Doe was going to get a gun. John Smith walked back towards the house with hands in his pockets. It was dark and John Smith could not see clearly. John Doe screamed, "I will kill you." John Doe actually had a gun when he screamed that but John Smith was not aware of that at the moment. John Smith shot him. John Smith was convicted of 2nd degree murder, despite arguing self-defense or manslaughter.

The difference in these cases was the awareness of the shooter of the other individual.

Since I already told you the context of my hypothetical comment, why should I respond further?

I only brought that up for Angela to consider when trying to evaluate the charactor of both people in her own mind. Nothing legal!. Do you get it now?

djbrow PM djbrow
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Posted: 4/10/2012 6:04:45 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by bowlslit:

I'm 95% sure this is his account

 


1) You have no verification of this.

2) Even if they were, there is nothing terrible in those.

bowlslit PM bowlslit
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Posted: 4/10/2012 6:07:16 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by djbrow:

Do you KNOW those are his tweets are you just believing what someone tells you or that someone tells you they are?

Just like that photograph of Martin flashing the gang sign. You know those were retracted right, because of lack of verification it was him.

Do you KNOW what Zimmerman's verision of events are or just what you have been told?

This is what I mean by cherrypicking. I don't KNOW what happened and am not in a position to make a judgment until I have a better idea, which may never happen.

 

99% sure this is his main twitter account

 

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