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[Politics] Topic: Roadway infrastructure problem |
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wallstreetcappers |
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#1 Posted: 9/17/2011 11:42:53 PM
The answer is not to privatize, turning all roads into toll roads and for profit is not a long term solution, nor do the toll roads I've driven on stay in better condition than they were before.
link
The road they are showing in the picture is 100% true in what they say, the stretch from Hoover to the next freeway is awful, it is a two laner most of the way, speeds are 40-ish and it is miserable, plus to the citizens there having the main street be a feeder to Vegas and Hoover has to be brutal. |
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Wake2002 |
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#2 Posted: 9/18/2011 12:10:47 AM I'm not sure I understand. I pay all of this money in taxes, and there is not enough money in the coffers to actually pay to keep our roads in usable condition? I thought that was one of the main benefits the people were supposed to get for the taxes they pay. If there is no money left for that, where the hell are all of funds going
The need for more taxes to be paid to our inefficient/wasteful government . How about the government actually use our tax money to pay for what it supposed to be doing |
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#3 Posted: 9/18/2011 12:23:07 AM QUOTE Originally Posted by Wake2002: I'm not sure I understand. I pay all of this money in taxes, and there is not enough money in the coffers to actually pay to keep our roads in usable condition? I thought that was one of the main benefits the people were supposed to get for the taxes they pay. If there is no money left for that, where the hell are all of funds going
The need for more taxes to be paid to our inefficient/wasteful government. How about the government actually use our tax money to pay for what it supposed to be doing
Its easy to understand..
See, politicians dont want to be the bad guy and tell the uneducated public that it actually costs money to maintain the freeways, bridges and roads they use to go from one place to another.
We havent properly paid into the transportation fund for a decade plus and while our population drives more, we dont want to pay for that luxury so as usual we wait until something catastrophic occurs and then have to scramble to take action. Instead the proper action is to maintain things in smaller more regular intervals, properly plan and fund expansion needs.
This is a national problem, not something central to one state or city or poorly run town..with the double price of oil in the last three years (off that massive cycle low) the cost of rubber, asphalt, sealant all go up..the way we wait until we are at a crisis adds HUGE costs versus more measured and regular maintenance.
You are like most people wake, any tax dollars taken is too much and some other guy should foot the bill. That or turn it over to a poorly run private for profit entity, then let the whole thing go down the crapper. |
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#4 Posted: 9/18/2011 12:25:50 AM QUOTE Originally Posted by Wake2002: I'm not sure I understand. I pay all of this money in taxes, and there is not enough money in the coffers to actually pay to keep our roads in usable condition? I thought that was one of the main benefits the people were supposed to get for the taxes they pay. If there is no money left for that, where the hell are all of funds going
The need for more taxes to be paid to our inefficient/wasteful government. How about the government actually use our tax money to pay for what it supposed to be doing
foreign aid, stimulus, green jobs, bank and automotive bailouts... You know... the stuff that really matters.
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#5 Posted: 9/18/2011 12:31:50 AM QUOTE Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:
Its easy to understand..
See, politicians dont want to be the bad guy and tell the uneducated public that it actually costs money to maintain the freeways, bridges and roads they use to go from one place to another.
We havent properly paid into the transportation fund for a decade plus and while our population drives more, we dont want to pay for that luxury so as usual we wait until something catastrophic occurs and then have to scramble to take action. Instead the proper action is to maintain things in smaller more regular intervals, properly plan and fund expansion needs.
This is a national problem, not something central to one state or city or poorly run town..with the double price of oil in the last three years (off that massive cycle low) the cost of rubber, asphalt, sealant all go up..the way we wait until we are at a crisis adds HUGE costs versus more measured and regular maintenance.
You are like most people wake, any tax dollars taken is too much and some other guy should foot the bill. That or turn it over to a poorly run private for profit entity, then let the whole thing go down the crapper.
excellent post
And dont forgot about all the over passes and bridges that need to be repaired and replaced.
See people dont realize it costs a lot of money to live in the type of society we live in. They dont want to pay for it, but they also dont want to lose it.
Another perfect example of the politicians playing games with the uneducated public is your property taxes. Instead of cities raising your taxes a little every year to pay for the higher costs of things, the politicians are so worried about getting themselves re-elected they keep hiding the costs and not raising the taxes, then when they cant hide it anymore, the garbage hits the fan and they tell people they need to raise their property taxes by 20 or 30 percent which then makes the public explode. Raise them a little each year and you wont even miss the money, get hit with 20 percent in one year, then of course your gonna be pissed.
Bottomline is if all the damn loopholes were closed and everybody was paying their fair share, there really would be enough money to pay for everything.
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#6 Posted: 9/18/2011 12:36:32 AM QUOTE Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:
Its easy to understand..
See, politicians dont want to be the bad guy and tell the uneducated public that it actually costs money to maintain the freeways, bridges and roads they use to go from one place to another.
We havent properly paid into the transportation fund for a decade plus and while our population drives more, we dont want to pay for that luxury so as usual we wait until something catastrophic occurs and then have to scramble to take action. Instead the proper action is to maintain things in smaller more regular intervals, properly plan and fund expansion needs.
This is a national problem, not something central to one state or city or poorly run town..with the double price of oil in the last three years (off that massive cycle low) the cost of rubber, asphalt, sealant all go up..the way we wait until we are at a crisis adds HUGE costs versus more measured and regular maintenance.
You are like most people wake, any tax dollars taken is too much and some other guy should foot the bill. That or turn it over to a poorly run private for profit entity, then let the whole thing go down the crapper.
YES, YES, YES and lastly YES!!!
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#7 Posted: 9/18/2011 12:37:29 AM
Here the ramped up the valuations and started to beef up the property tax collections, then the market dumped and they started playing the numbers game which insults our intelligence and is dishonest.
Now they are lowing the assessment base for a property, so say in 2007 the value of property X is 400,000 and the annual tax is 4,000 or a 1% tax..well now they drop the base to 300k which seems awesome, all except the tax rate went UP and the overall tax went up.
The games we play.. |
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#8 Posted: 9/18/2011 12:41:40 AM
If only term limits would be put into play in our country, i truly believe you would see things change for the better and these politicians might actually do the right things instead of just worrying about themselves.
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Wake2002 |
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#9 Posted: 9/18/2011 12:57:49 AM QUOTE Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:
Its easy to understand..
See, politicians dont want to be the bad guy and tell the uneducated public that it actually costs money to maintain the freeways, bridges and roads they use to go from one place to another.
We havent properly paid into the transportation fund for a decade plus and while our population drives more, we dont want to pay for that luxury so as usual we wait until something catastrophic occurs and then have to scramble to take action. Instead the proper action is to maintain things in smaller more regular intervals, properly plan and fund expansion needs.
This is a national problem, not something central to one state or city or poorly run town..with the double price of oil in the last three years (off that massive cycle low) the cost of rubber, asphalt, sealant all go up..the way we wait until we are at a crisis adds HUGE costs versus more measured and regular maintenance.
You are like most people wake, any tax dollars taken is too much and some other guy should foot the bill. That or turn it over to a poorly run private for profit entity, then let the whole thing go down the crapper.
You ignored the point of my post and just re-highlighted your agenda---which, outside of the increase of taxes angle, I'm actually not arguing against. I agree, fixing roads/building infrastructure should be a higher priority of the government. I just have a hard time comprehending where my taxes go if they aren't going to fix infrastructure. And I have an even harder time understanding why, when the government can't use the taxes I pay efficiently, I should be asked to pay even more. |
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#10 Posted: 9/18/2011 1:04:38 AM QUOTE Originally Posted by cd329:
Bottomline is if all the damn loopholes were closed and everybody was paying their fair share, there really would be enough money to pay for everything.
What does this statement mean to you? What is "everyone's fair share?" If I make more money, what added benefit do I get from the government? By "fair share", do you mean every American pays a fixed amount? If I make $100K a year, do I get twice as much benefit as someone who makes $50K?
Now, I obviously don't believe a fixed fee is "fair share", but when I hear that terminology, I'm very curious as to what you mean |
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#11 Posted: 9/18/2011 1:07:02 AM QUOTE Originally Posted by Wake2002:
You ignored the point of my post and just re-highlighted your agenda---which, outside of the increase of taxes angle, I'm actually not arguing against. I agree, fixing roads/building infrastructure should be a higher priority of the government. I just have a hard time comprehending where my taxes go if they aren't going to fix infrastructure. And I have an even harder time understanding why, when the government can't use the taxes I pay efficiently, I should be asked to pay even more.
Well the answer was given several times here..politicians are not elected based on telling the truth and being the bearer of bad news. Politicians get elected by kicking the can and rolling future deficits forward..keeping present levels which are not sufficient just long enough to get another term, then they are good for between 2,4,6 yrs and the spotlight is gone, job secure.
When was the last time our gas tax went up? Any idea?
Here is your answer..the same tax rate has been in place for the last EIGHTEEN years.
So is that proper planning? Same thing goes for SS and Medicare..costs have gone up, more use on the system and yet we do not properly plan and fund.
That is on the federal level..here is the breakdown for total gas/diesel tax.
Rates havent been raised in over a decade, the cost of oil, thus the raw cost of goods used to repair have gone up a huge percentage and yet we wonder why the roads arent fixed properly.
Also note how the sec of transportation admitted that funds are sucked out for other projects..so the real ammt going just to roads is much lower. |
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#12 Posted: 9/18/2011 1:13:46 AM QUOTE Originally Posted by Wake2002:
What does this statement mean to you? What is "everyone's fair share?" If I make more money, what added benefit do I get from the government? By "fair share", do you mean every American pays a fixed amount? If I make $100K a year, do I get twice as much benefit as someone who makes $50K?
Now, I obviously don't believe a fixed fee is "fair share", but when I hear that terminology, I'm very curious as to what you mean
Am talking about closing the tax loopholes for corporations and maybe start collecting some taxes from the 75 percent of the companies that pay no income tax. Thats who am talking about paying their fair share
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#13 Posted: 9/18/2011 1:14:02 AM QUOTE Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:
Also note how the sec of transportation admitted that funds are sucked out for other projects..so the real ammt going just to roads is much lower.
There is the problem right there. Funds are being sucked out for projects that should be a much lower priority. There is no argument on my end that more money should be used to fix roads/infrastructure. There also seems to be no argument on your end that the politicians are the root of the problem as your posts seem to consistently point out that they are just kicking the can down the road.
Our fundamental difference seems to be that in my mind, you don't just continue to throw more funds at an entity that has proven time and time again it is wasteful and creates little to no value. You can increase taxes to the point everyone in the country is paying 100%. If the politicians can't appropriately spend that money efficiently, and put it to the use that most benefits society, it is all just a complete waste.
My answer is divert more of our taxes to these sorts of programs, (what the goverment should be spending our money on). |
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#14 Posted: 9/18/2011 1:17:10 AM QUOTE Originally Posted by cd329:
Am talking about closing the tax loopholes for corporations and maybe start collecting some taxes from the 75 percent of the companies that pay no income tax. Thats who am talking about paying their fair share
Who owns corporations? As an investor, I, you, your company's pension plan, etc., already pay 15-25% capital gains tax on profits of corporations that are already taxed on the corporation level. When does it end?
If the government could spend our money more efficiently, and use it for the purposes that it should be using it for (rather than earmarks, bailouts, pet projects, etc.) there would be plenty to go around.
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#15 Posted: 9/18/2011 1:17:31 AM
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#16 Posted: 9/18/2011 1:23:37 AM
That is all true that we should properly let funds flow through, but even if I dont think it is enough. |
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#17 Posted: 9/18/2011 1:25:17 AM
http://www.covers.com/postingforum/post01/showmessage.aspx?spt=87&sub=101125871
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cd329 |
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#18 Posted: 9/18/2011 1:28:05 AM QUOTE Originally Posted by Wake2002:
Who owns corporations? As an investor, I, you, your company's pension plan, etc., already pay 15-25% capital gains tax on profits of corporations that are already taxed on the corporation level. When does it end?
If the government could spend our money more efficiently, and use it for the purposes that it should be using it for (rather than earmarks, bailouts, pet projects, etc.) there would be plenty to go around.
So you believe corporations should pay no income taxes, just all of us should pay income tax.
Good logic letting the corporations pay no taxes at all.
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#19 Posted: 9/18/2011 1:32:27 AM QUOTE Originally Posted by Mance1:
Welcome to over a Week ago. As a linesman you should think of merging to my thread.
http://www.covers.com/postingforum/post01/showmessage.aspx?spt=87&sub=101125871
Banks?
No merge tool on our site btw..would be nice. |
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#20 Posted: 9/18/2011 1:34:46 AM QUOTE Originally Posted by cd329:
So you believe corporations should pay no income taxes, just all of us should pay income tax.
Good logic letting the corporations pay no taxes at all.
For the most parts, corporations do pay taxes. A simple review of 10-Q's and 10-K's will show that. Are there situations where some corporations find loopholes, sure. But you act like all corporations find ways to avoid taxation and that is just not close to the case.
I also just find your hatred/bashing of corporations amusing. Do you own stocks? Have a 401K or Pension Plan? If the answer is yes, as much as this may surprise you, you own corporations. If you don't like how they are operating, go to a shareholders' meeting and voice your opinion. Now, keep in mind, your investments would plummet if you got your wish, but as an owner, it is your right to voice your opinion. If you own stocks and choose not to voice your opinion in a forum where it would matter, and just look to post on a message board, your argument really lacks any sort of ethos necessary for me to take it seriously.
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#21 Posted: 9/18/2011 1:38:36 AM QUOTE Originally Posted by esplanade:
Uh Wall, you realize that state income tax revenue from gas sales has increased, right?
Depends on the state, but I promise you that from the last federal raise, any state raise has not kept up with raw cost increases, aside from any wage changes from 1993.
Would be jolly if you could have a conversation without trying to bust my chops..maybe if you cant you could not reply in the first place?
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#22 Posted: 9/18/2011 1:42:10 AM QUOTE Originally Posted by Wake2002:
For the most parts, corporations do pay taxes. A simple review of 10-Q's and 10-K's will show that. Are there situations where some corporations find loopholes, sure. But you act like all corporations find ways to avoid taxation and that is just not close to the case.
I also just find your hatred/bashing of corporations amusing. Do you own stocks? Have a 401K or Pension Plan? If the answer is yes, as much as this may surprise you, you own corporations. If you don't like how they are operating, go to a shareholders' meeting and voice your opinion. Now, keep in mind, your investments would plummet if you got your wish, but as an owner, it is your right to voice your opinion. If you own stocks and choose not to voice your opinion in a forum where it would matter, and just look to post on a message board, your argument really lacks any sort of ethos necessary for me to take it seriously.
That is a servitude approach which most have and I do not. I dont feel an obligation to a corporation because they have shareholders, nor do they feel an obligation to you as their consumer or employee.
Tell me, which group has net gains in compensation and revenue over the last few decades, corporations or individuals?
Corporations are in their base form a cheating, deceptive entity which profits from the control of power, knowledge and information. Do not give any more control or power to the corporation because they have more than you, me, the government, regulatory groups etc.
Corporations are to be feared and controlled unless they PROVE otherwise.
IMO of course. |
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#23 Posted: 9/18/2011 1:45:26 AM QUOTE Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:
Banks?
No merge tool on our site btw..would be nice. By saying " Banks?" in quotations your're acting like my thread has no relation to your copycat thread?That's cool dude ,ive been around long enough to see you're egocentric and think think all your thoughts are original. Just remember, everything you think as a original thought has been thought of long ago. Welcome to the future.
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#24 Posted: 9/18/2011 1:51:18 AM QUOTE Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:
That is a servitude approach which most have and I do not. I dont feel an obligation to a corporation because they have shareholders, nor do they feel an obligation to you as their consumer or employee.
Tell me, which group has net gains in compensation and revenue over the last few decades, corporations or individuals?
Corporations are in their base form a cheating, deceptive entity which profits from the control of power, knowledge and information. Do not give any more control or power to the corporation because they have more than you, me, the government, regulatory groups etc.
Corporations are to be feared and controlled unless they PROVE otherwise.
IMO of course.
Not saying I completely agree with what you wrote, but I won't say I completely disagree either. From the standpoint of the society, you could make some of those arguments.
My post was more in response to CD's post about taxes. My first point was his claim that 75% of corporations don't pay taxes is not even close to true. My second point was that if he owns stocks, has a 401K plan, Pension Plan, etc., asking corporations to pay more taxes would just be shooting himself in the foot and he doesn't even realize it. Not sure a rational person can really argue with either of those two points.......... |
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#25 Posted: 9/18/2011 1:51:36 AM QUOTE Originally Posted by Mance1: By saying " Banks?" in quotations your're acting like my thread has no relation to your copycat thread? That's cool dude ,ive been around long enough to see you're egocentric and think think all your thoughts are original. Just remember, everything you think as a original thought has been thought of long ago. Welcome to the future.
Actually the first link was a story I ran across tonight and we had this discussion in a different thread prior to the one you linked.
No need to be a jerk, I answered your rude comment and do not need another one to follow it.
A few of us spoke a while back about the gas tax and how it is not keeping pace with the need for road repair, I am glad you felt the need to be combative and rude, I hope you will decide to change this approach in the future.
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