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[Systems & Strategies] Topic: MLB system releases... |
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xxxoddsmakerxxx |
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#2176 Posted: 3/2/2010 7:54:21 AM I would be willing to start a new thread if anyone wants to join. Mainly MLB wagers,not necessarily based on Saber,but open to discussion. I may not post my units risked but I will use the spreadsheet at SBR to document picks (http://sheets.mysbrforum.com/photos/n/9a1k12s1.png)
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angelobruno |
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#2177 Posted: 3/3/2010 3:59:31 PM someone who is good with a computer and spreadssheets and so forth should take the bull by the horns and start a whole new thread titled the saber system or watever and lets just keep it nice and respectable and be coherent of others questions and have someone post accurate picks because there is money to be made with this system .....just my 2 cents  |
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K4ngur13 |
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Hall of Fame
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#2178 Posted: 3/4/2010 9:26:59 AM tallguyindc  usasurfer 
you both are absilutely correct, I only happen to go through first 2 weeks and there have been garbage load of mistakes found. we're talking about the odds he posted, inflated lines and no unit count and so on ...
thank you both for your responses
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Ktrain |
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#2179 Posted: 3/4/2010 8:25:55 PM Well this isn't Sabermetric related but I have been looking for some future's wagers already. Here are some wagers I am considering. Any and all feedback is welcome and all odds are from The Greek Sportsbook.
Toronto Under 71 1/2 wins -125
Seattle Over 83 1/2 wins -110
San Francisco Over 82 1/2 wins +105
N.Y. Yankees Under 94 1/2 wins +130
Chicago White Sox Over 82 1/2 wins -135
Colorado to win NL West +245
Philadelphia to win NL East -135(stepping out on a limb there huh?)
Boston Red Sox to win AL East +145
Seattle Mariners to win AL West +165 |
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Philly215 |
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#2180 Posted: 3/6/2010 12:37:54 PM Rockies arent winning the west, save your money on that one. |
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captainfyr |
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#2181 Posted: 3/7/2010 6:10:35 PM That would be great xxxoddsmakerxxx. Thanks. |
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PS150 |
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#2182 Posted: 3/9/2010 1:05:11 PM Odds, that would be worth looking at..Thanks. |
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DarkHorse21 |
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#2183 Posted: 3/14/2010 4:54:36 AM BTZ (before the zombies), this thread was the real deal, and there were some people who figured it out at the time. And they helped each other a great deal, and became much better baseball cappers for it. This is easily the most instructive baseball thread I've ever come across on the web. And the units, while not important from a MLB capping perspective, were figured out along the way by some of us. Sports Network did many of us a great service by sharing his insights. If you're too lazy, or uneducated, to carefully study the wealth of information that was shared here you only have yourself to blame.
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xxxoddsmakerxxx |
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#2184 Posted: 3/14/2010 3:21:51 PM [URL]http://mikeybets.mysbrforum.com/ssexport/?id=3T2v4sXZ&type=html[/URL] |
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xxxoddsmakerxxx |
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#2185 Posted: 3/14/2010 3:23:31 PM dam, trying to cut and paste the spreadsheet but no luck so far. its a decent tool to use to keep track of wagers but not really needed for a decent MLB forum. I,like all of u, hope to win big this year so hopefully we can get a constructive discussion goin. good luck to all
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BottomUpCeo |
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#2186 Posted: 3/14/2010 3:24:22 PM QUOTE Originally Posted by DarkHorse21:
BTZ (before the zombies), this thread was the real deal, and there were some people who figured it out at the time. And they helped each other a great deal, and became much better baseball cappers for it. This is easily the most instructive baseball thread I've ever come across on the web. And the units, while not important from a MLB capping perspective, were figured out along the way by some of us. Sports Network did many of us a great service by sharing his insights. If you're too lazy, or uneducated, to carefully study the wealth of information that was shared here you only have yourself to blame.
It is good to know that someone feels that this system isn't just a fluke as others believe. I must admit that the strategy sounds legit but the mixed reviews left me skeptical so i decided to try it out during spring training. I have a vague understanding of how it all works out. So to Dark Horse and anyone else out there who understands the strategy:I dont have the time now but i will post my capping breakdown in using the system to the best of my knowledge. Im new to sports betting and i would appreciate it if you guys could give me a full raw critique. |
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xxxoddsmakerxxx |
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#2187 Posted: 3/14/2010 3:36:14 PM http://sheets.mysbrforum.com/photos/n/u7uUYy37.png |
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pingaloca |
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#2188 Posted: 3/14/2010 3:59:50 PM why does covers post garbage from 2009. this is friggin stupid |
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Ktrain |
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#2189 Posted: 3/15/2010 6:00:58 AM QUOTE Originally Posted by DarkHorse21:
BTZ (before the zombies), this thread was the real deal, and there were some people who figured it out at the time. And they helped each other a great deal, and became much better baseball cappers for it. This is easily the most instructive baseball thread I've ever come across on the web. And the units, while not important from a MLB capping perspective, were figured out along the way by some of us. Sports Network did many of us a great service by sharing his insights. If you're too lazy, or uneducated, to carefully study the wealth of information that was shared here you only have yourself to blame.
Darkhorse,
I agree that SN did expose us to something very intriguing and something that could be very profitable. But the way he handled himself on the thread made it very difficult for people to believe him. It's not about people being to lazy or uneducated to do the work. It's about giving people who aren't used to using sabremetrics as applied to wagering the tools to use it without insulting them for asking certain questions. Certain questions like units wagered, and how that applies to strongest leans. Even people early on in the thread would get different numbers for runs created and base runs even though SN supposedly "gave all the information that we need in the thread". You don't just throw a random kid an algebra book and tell him to read it and expect him to know it in a week. You give that kid step by step instructions as plainly as possible so that kid can understand it. It's the same concept as this thread. If your readers can't grasp it's concepts then it's not the audiences fault. It's the speakers. I'm not trying to start an argument and I'm not trying to belittle SN for what he did. I'm just not sure he handles interactions with others very well. Maybe his problem has more to do with social skills than anything else. Anyways, best of luck to everyone this upcoming season. |
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toft33 |
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#2190 Posted: 3/16/2010 2:04:51 PM QUOTE Originally Posted by Ktrain:
Darkhorse,
I agree that SN did expose us to something very intriguing and something that could be very profitable. But the way he handled himself on the thread made it very difficult for people to believe him. It's not about people being to lazy or uneducated to do the work. It's about giving people who aren't used to using sabremetrics as applied to wagering the tools to use it without insulting them for asking certain questions. Certain questions like units wagered, and how that applies to strongest leans. Even people early on in the thread would get different numbers for runs created and base runs even though SN supposedly "gave all the information that we need in the thread". You don't just throw a random kid an algebra book and tell him to read it and expect him to know it in a week. You give that kid step by step instructions as plainly as possible so that kid can understand it. It's the same concept as this thread. If your readers can't grasp it's concepts then it's not the audiences fault. It's the speakers. I'm not trying to start an argument and I'm not trying to belittle SN for what he did. I'm just not sure he handles interactions with others very well. Maybe his problem has more to do with social skills than anything else. Anyways, best of luck to everyone this upcoming season.
SN basically knows the whole landscape of betting on the net and at the book. The Sabermetrics approach of last season was something that takes time to cobble together, even on a daily basis, even running it through excel-programmed macros. If that's in fact how it was executed. I don't know about the money management aspect to it. He explained the MM in terms of allocation to me because I sent him a polite PM requesting it. Maybe he got short with people. I never actually saw or read that. As he said himself, he was keeping the method fluid and refining it throughout the season. I really do not think it was the kind of analytics that could be easily understood without a PhD in statistics. Pretty sophisticated with real granularity to it. And it was on a roll for a while. He posted his cards for free. So I would not expect him to give away his secret for free. It becomes less valuable.
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dj_destroyer |
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#2191 Posted: 3/16/2010 5:14:46 PM I think you guys are undervaluing SN a lot...
People obviously tailed him throughout all of last season -- you think if he was actually inflating lines/odds, lying, cheating, etc as much as you guys say. -- someone would have called him on it? |
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Ktrain |
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#2192 Posted: 3/17/2010 12:09:58 AM DJ,
People did question his lines/prices towards the end of the thread. People questioned his units wagered a lot when he managed to have days that were 3-5 but yet up 8 units. I'm not saying he didn't do a productive thing by starting this thread. And I understand if he wanted to educate people to do this on their own and not just take his picks. But part of handicapping is units wagered, and it's a big part. And he refused to say how many units he wagered until like halfway through the thread and after he had insulted many people for even asking. It just could have went a lot smoother had he catered to his audience more.
I'm kinda over debating SN's worth to the thread though. I would like to see it move forward with somebodys thoughts toward this upcoming season. Especially as it pertains to futures wagers since it's Spring Training right now. I would love to hear other's thoughts or if anyone knows of any great wagers/prices on specific books. Best of luck to all. |
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tallguyindc |
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#2193 Posted: 3/17/2010 2:15:41 AM QUOTE Originally Posted by dj_destroyer:
I think you guys are undervaluing SN a lot...
People obviously tailed him throughout all of last season -- you think if he was actually inflating lines/odds, lying, cheating, etc as much as you guys say. -- someone would have called him on it?
Somebody did call him on it. In fact a lot of people called him on it. I was just one of them. I actually have a difficult time believing a lot of people are still taking him seriously.
I'm telling you guys straight up and directly. He was the sports betting version of Enron. Start with a reasonably good idea on how to make a small amount of money. Claim it makes an absurdly large amount of money. Come up with a convoluted shell game to explain why losses aren't really losses. They are actually huge profits. Argue that its a waste of time trying to dissect this convoluted coverup. Argue that anybody that doesn't understand the details of the shell game is stupid and that its obvious to everyone else. Watch while the small profits turn into huge losses. Disappear without a trace when the roof inevitably crashes in.
It wasn't only about unit management or incorrect lines. Those were just symptoms of the larger problem. The larger problem was that his accounting was garbage. He was more concerned with saying he was making large profits than actually making small ones. I suppose its OK to be a delusional know-it-all but when other people are starting to follow you and taking your bullshit at face value, you are doing a huge disfavor to society.
For those of you that didn't see the end...reread post #506 of this thread.
http://www.covers.com/postingforum/post01/showmessage.aspx?spt=79&sub=100522314&page=21
I caught him in 3 obvious lies in one posting. He never did respond to the heart of the complaint and very quickly left Covers. I'm fairly certain that if I looked closely enough I could find many more "accounting irregularities".
This was just such a misguided and painful thread. Sabermetrics is a very useful subject in betting. There are a ton of great Sabermetrics sites. Baseballprospectus.com, baseball-reference.com, tangotiger.com, etc. etc. Advancednflstats.com is a good one for football. If you aren't familiar with the basic concepts (BABIP, etc). Get familiar quickly. It will definitely help you.
None of these sites claim that they can earn you absurd amounts or that they win 70% of their bets. They do provide useful information and they are very aware of their own shortcomings.
If somebody wants to replicate their formulas targeted for the gambling audience, then I will applaud. But if you get a small amount of success and start to feel the temptation to start claiming a much higher rate than you actually earned....stop and don't ever come back.
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dj_destroyer |
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#2194 Posted: 3/17/2010 11:22:47 AM Fair enough.
I'm on board with KTrain in getting this thread active and moving again. I do usually have a lot of time so I could potentially do the grunt work but I'm not excellent at math (high school calculus is where I stop) and I'm not great with computers (basic spreadsheet at best) so I'm not sure...
Is everyone satisfied with just the basic base_runs formula? Which variation do you think is most accurate? What additional factors should we include?
Of course, we will keep a legit running tally. |
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DarkHorse21 |
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#2195 Posted: 3/17/2010 1:18:32 PM QUOTE Originally Posted by Ktrain:
Darkhorse,
I agree that SN did expose us to something very intriguing and something that could be very profitable. But the way he handled himself on the thread made it very difficult for people to believe him. It's not about people being to lazy or uneducated to do the work. It's about giving people who aren't used to using sabremetrics as applied to wagering the tools to use it without insulting them for asking certain questions. Certain questions like units wagered, and how that applies to strongest leans. Even people early on in the thread would get different numbers for runs created and base runs even though SN supposedly "gave all the information that we need in the thread". You don't just throw a random kid an algebra book and tell him to read it and expect him to know it in a week. You give that kid step by step instructions as plainly as possible so that kid can understand it. It's the same concept as this thread. If your readers can't grasp it's concepts then it's not the audiences fault. It's the speakers. I'm not trying to start an argument and I'm not trying to belittle SN for what he did. I'm just not sure he handles interactions with others very well. Maybe his problem has more to do with social skills than anything else. Anyways, best of luck to everyone this upcoming season.
There were some who studied what SN brought to the table until they had mastered the method. They are not the ones criticizing him...
That should tell you all you need to know.
The ones that are criticizing him are those who didn't put in the hard work. They wanted free picks, and on top of that they wanted to know how much to bet on each play. Then, when they didn't understand the bet sizing, and assumed it 'fake', they found it easier to assume that the method would have to be fake as well. This is how the 'public mind' works. To complete the cycle, they then come together and agree that what they don't understand (the method) never had any value in the first place...
I would never even share a method like this with the public. SN did. But instead of appreciating him for it, people who don't know this business (who will always be in the majority) throw him under the buss.
And you suggest his social skills are a problem? You guys have it all backward.
Copy and paste every valuable post in this tread. Print it, bind it, and study it. Don't expect ready made answers. The whole point, in this industry, is that you have to learn to think for yourself. This thread is a perfect example of how few people are willing to do that. And why sports betting will continue to be profitable for those who do put in the hard work. This method is not rocket science, but it is beyond the reach of the general public. Not because it is difficult, but because the general public wants things 'easy'.
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DarkHorse21 |
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#2196 Posted: 3/17/2010 1:32:53 PM Once you understand the method, you can decide how you want to use it. It is very time consuming, especially in the earlier part of the season. I decided to combine a simplified version with another angle, and use that as 'my' method. That worked for me, and is something I couldn't have done without the information in this thread. Please understand that it is extremely rare in sports betting for someone to give away something that actually works. There is just no financial advantage to doing so. So appreciate someone who does so for the generosity shown.
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smitler |
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#2197 Posted: 3/17/2010 1:45:54 PM My 2 cents: I don't understand it and don't have the time to try. There are some smart MFers here that have a grasp on it. Stop beatin around the bush, contribute, and post the damn plays.

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michael-5 |
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#2198 Posted: 3/18/2010 3:38:25 PM There are 88 pages to this post. Can some post the system or what # post explains it clearly?
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dj_destroyer |
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#2199 Posted: 3/18/2010 5:37:26 PM There are no posts that explain anything clearly... I've started a new thread to try and get a new system going using sabermetrics. Join and discuss! |
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MeMyselfandEye |
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#2200 Posted: 3/18/2010 7:16:13 PM This is amusing..So the majority of people complaining do not know the 1st thing about Saber-metrics....There is a-lot involved, like whether to include base on balls or stolen bases, in the Runs Created formula....
I can tell you this...There is no perfect formula. I have a version I use which is successful for me. but I will not take the time to post plays so the trolls can take advantage of it, I think the majority of people that post want recognition for their accomplishments.
There are quite a few who understand it..although they disagree with SN's accounting methods. Darkhorse get it... Tall Guy Gets ..it..Blacken get it,..What has been shown here is valuable.
Do your own work...if not...blast away.
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