Messages

Forum Index : Poker : Messages Page 2 of 5  1 2 3 4 5  
Author: [Poker] Topic: Is online poker rigged
MrGlue send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook | My Sportsbook: Station |
MrGlue
Participation Meter
Prospect
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 244
Location: Nevada
#26
Posted: 2/20/2011 4:56:58 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by sean2114:

1 - right

2 - right

3 - right i have not done any statiscal analysis, i am using my claim based on personal expierence, if you don't believe me then fine, i really don't care



Poker players tend to take accusations of cheating and unfair play very seriously. With the amount of money that can change hands, on any given hand, it's important that the rules are being followed and that the game is fair.

The online poker community actually polices itself. With no international governing body to regulate online play, it's really up to the players... Numerous crooked sites, super users, multiple accounters, cheats, collusion teams, etc... have been caught, reported, banned, shut down, etc... by online players own statistical analysis.

When someone claims "foul play" poker players tend to listen open-mindedly. BUT, because so many people cry "foul play" simply because of losing, poker players tend to be highly critical of such claims and require more evidence than "personal experience".

I'm not trying to be critical of you personally but logic dictates that I be critical of what you are saying.

Plus, you might scare some fish away...
quote
MrGlue send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook | My Sportsbook: Station |
MrGlue
Participation Meter
Prospect
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 244
Location: Nevada
#27
Posted: 2/20/2011 5:18:49 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by sean2114:

over 63 hands online in one cash game sitting i hit pocket aces 3 times.... the odds of getting pocket aces is 221 to 1 or 0.45%, using those odds the odds of getting pocket aces three times would be roughly 500,000 to 1 or 0.0002%



Results tend to cluster, especially over a ridiculously small sample size. The odds of getting dealt any specific pocket pair may be 221/1 but this does not mean that over 221 hands we will be dealt each pair exactly one time.

What this does mean, is that over a large sample size, we will probably be dealt a specific pair an average of once per 221 hands. But, the clusters will be randomly distributed.

We can't predict which pair we will be most/least likely to be dealt based on past results. Each deal is independent.

And sample sizes have to be huge. For example, to calculate with 99% accuracy whether a coin is biased, you have to flip the coin over 10,000 times. And, you could never obtain 100% simply by flipping...

In a live tournament, I was dealt Q3o nine times in a row. After the third time I actually starting watching the dealer to see if he was screwing me... I don't know what the odds of that happening are but I'm sure it's pretty slim.

But, the cards don't care about what is supposed to happen or what has happened before... because they are random.



quote
tb2 send a private message View Space | Friends | Playbook |
tb2
Participation Meter
Veteran
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1081
Location:
#28
Posted: 2/20/2011 9:59:43 AM
no offense bro, but q3 offsuit 9 times in a row sounds like a little exaggeration...like u catch a 2 pound bass and 3 hours later that same bass weighed 10 pounds, know what i mean.....if u personally had this happen why not contact tourney director and let him know
quote
SOBLATANT send a private message View Space | Friends | Playbook |
SOBLATANT
Participation Meter
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1408
Location: Iceland
#29
Posted: 2/20/2011 2:18:14 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by MrGlue:



Results tend to cluster, especially over a ridiculously small sample size. The odds of getting dealt any specific pocket pair may be 221/1 but this does not mean that over 221 hands we will be dealt each pair exactly one time.

What this does mean, is that over a large sample size, we will probably be dealt a specific pair an average of once per 221 hands. But, the clusters will be randomly distributed.

We can't predict which pair we will be most/least likely to be dealt based on past results. Each deal is independent.

And sample sizes have to be huge. For example, to calculate with 99% accuracy whether a coin is biased, you have to flip the coin over 10,000 times. And, you could never obtain 100% simply by flipping...

In a live tournament, I was dealt Q3o nine times in a row. After the third time I actually starting watching the dealer to see if he was screwing me... I don't know what the odds of that happening are but I'm sure it's pretty slim.

But, the cards don't care about what is supposed to happen or what has happened before... because they are random.



THERE IS NOTHING RANDOM ABOUT THE DEAL OF ONLINE "POKER" WHATSOEVER.
quote
MrGlue send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook | My Sportsbook: Station |
MrGlue
Participation Meter
Prospect
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 244
Location: Nevada
#30
Posted: 2/20/2011 3:24:15 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by tb2:

no offense bro, but q3 offsuit 9 times in a row sounds like a little exaggeration...like u catch a 2 pound bass and 3 hours later that same bass weighed 10 pounds, know what i mean.....if u personally had this happen why not contact tourney director and let him know


Well, I certainly applaud your skepticism... maybe with nothing more to go on than my personal experience, we shouldn't believe my claim.

I didn't mention the Q3's to anyone because: I was the only one who observed them and I couldn't spot the dealer doing anything wrong. If I called the floor, I basically would have been whining about getting shitty cards.
quote
MrGlue send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook | My Sportsbook: Station |
MrGlue
Participation Meter
Prospect
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 244
Location: Nevada
#31
Posted: 2/20/2011 5:19:11 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by SOBLATANT:

THERE IS NOTHING RANDOM ABOUT THE DEAL OF ONLINE "POKER" WHATSOEVER.


We've been down this road before...

What is "non-random" about the deal of online poker?

What pattern does it follow?

What evidence do you have of this pattern?


quote
sean2114 send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook |
sean2114
Participation Meter
All-Star
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 11292
Location: Ohio
#32
Posted: 2/21/2011 4:54:25 PM
QUOTE

Originally Posted by MrGlue:



Poker players tend to take accusations of cheating and unfair play very seriously. With the amount of money that can change hands, on any given hand, it's important that the rules are being followed and that the game is fair.

The online poker community actually polices itself. With no international governing body to regulate online play, it's really up to the players... Numerous crooked sites, super users, multiple accounters, cheats, collusion teams, etc... have been caught, reported, banned, shut down, etc... by online players own statistical analysis.

When someone claims "foul play" poker players tend to listen open-mindedly. BUT, because so many people cry "foul play" simply because of losing, poker players tend to be highly critical of such claims and require more evidence than "personal experience".

I'm not trying to be critical of you personally but logic dictates that I be critical of what you are saying.

Plus, you might scare some fish away...

I haven't made any accusations in this thread... i simply posed the question. All I am saying is that over the years it just seems like more "random" things happen in benefit of building pots in online cash games.... take it or leave it.

quote
gers
RSI Wagerline RSI Rating
send a private message View Space | Friends | Playbook | My Sportsbook: 888sport.com |
gers
Participation Meter
Captain
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8430
Location: Canada
#33
Posted: 2/21/2011 6:27:51 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by sean2114:

sitting at a cash game tonight and just had pocket aces cracked three times over an hour and a half.... not to mention pocket kings lost once as well. I swear you never see as many losses on the river in live poker as you do in online poker. I just recently opened an account online after not having played it for 5+ years.... jsut realized why i quite playing... i swear that stuff is rigged
Got bounced from 3 tourns this morning with AA but you got remember there are lots of bad players out there willing call with a 9-2 offsuit and if they pair there 2 they willpush you all in and get lucky.
quote
scalabrine send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook |
scalabrine
Participation Meter
All-Star
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 13707
Location: United States
#34
Posted: 2/21/2011 8:15:07 PM
While the OP has every right to post threads like this one, these threads have been recycled many, many times in this forum and get a lot of unnecessary attention. 

The more time you spend complaining about online poker, the less your game will improve over the long term.
quote
MrGlue send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook | My Sportsbook: Station |
MrGlue
Participation Meter
Prospect
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 244
Location: Nevada
#35
Posted: 2/22/2011 2:30:14 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by sean2114:

I haven't made any accusations in this thread... i simply posed the question. All I am saying is that over the years it just seems like more "random" things happen in benefit of building pots in online cash games.... take it or leave it.



I'll leave it...

Over my last 36k hands I have lost:

10,000 hands in pots <10BB's

376 hands in pots between 10-50BB's

67 hands 50-100BB's

9 hands >100BB's

In the 10,452 hands that I lost, 95% of them were in the smallest pot size that I could filter for.

If "they" we're altering the random deal of those hands to build pots then they did a really, really, really, really bad job of it.

quote
MrGlue send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook | My Sportsbook: Station |
MrGlue
Participation Meter
Prospect
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 244
Location: Nevada
#36
Posted: 2/22/2011 2:46:17 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by scalabrine:

While the OP has every right to post threads like this one, these threads have been recycled many, many times in this forum and get a lot of unnecessary attention. 

The more time you spend complaining about online poker, the less your game will improve over the long term.


Agreed.

However, the rigged/random debates are a smaller version of a bigger problem: society choosing to move forward on beliefs based on rhetoric rather than evidence. That's not only bad for society (over exposure to randomness) it makes us bad poker players.


quote
sean2114 send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook |
sean2114
Participation Meter
All-Star
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 11292
Location: Ohio
#37
Posted: 2/22/2011 7:49:35 AM
QUOTE

Originally Posted by MrGlue:



Agreed.

However, the rigged/random debates are a smaller version of a bigger problem: society choosing to move forward on beliefs based on rhetoric rather than evidence. That's not only bad for society (over exposure to randomness) it makes us bad poker players.


so ultimate bet never got busted for cheating? it is not based on rehtoric in the least, just the like the NBA poker has had problems in the past with cheating and collusion... hard to blame people for jumping to that conclusion ecspecially when the industry is unregulated and answers to no one.

quote
scalabrine send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook |
scalabrine
Participation Meter
All-Star
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 13707
Location: United States
#38
Posted: 2/22/2011 8:24:43 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by sean2114:

so ultimate bet never got busted for cheating? it is not based on rehtoric in the least, just the like the NBA poker has had problems in the past with cheating and collusion... hard to blame people for jumping to that conclusion ecspecially when the industry is unregulated and answers to no one.


The fraud occurred in cash games at stakes you, I, (or probably Glue) would never play in. They were mostly at higher limits and sometimes nosebleeds because the defrauders wanted the quickest profit possible.

Other cheating happened in tournaments which very well could have affected you. 

But there are so many tournaments run a day, it is unlikely you ran into these individuals in a tournament of thousands to get defrauded.

Still, the entire scandal exposed one main fact: the fairness of online poker can be compromised and that is not to be overlooked.

But we can't continue to complain about it when AA gets cracked three times in a row, or even 10 times in a row thinking Russ Hamilton is on the other end of the hand every time.
quote
MrGlue send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook | My Sportsbook: Station |
MrGlue
Participation Meter
Prospect
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 244
Location: Nevada
#39
Posted: 2/22/2011 11:18:33 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by sean2114:

so ultimate bet never got busted for cheating? it is not based on rehtoric in the least, just the like the NBA poker has had problems in the past with cheating and collusion... hard to blame people for jumping to that conclusion ecspecially when the industry is unregulated and answers to no one.



I really never got the entire story on the UB scandal... I had stopped playing there by that time. But, I thought that it was a "super user" who got busted on UB and that he was a "former" employee. Meaning, that the site had some slack security measures but wasn't trying to defraud it's players.

He was busted by players doing data analysis, btw.

Anyway, cheating and collusion does happen. No denying that...

But, that's very different than the actual sites themselves "rigging" the results of hands.

The NBA (any sport really) has refs that alter the results of games. Sure.

But that does not mean the NBA decides which teams will win which games before the season starts.


quote
sean2114 send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook |
sean2114
Participation Meter
All-Star
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 11292
Location: Ohio
#40
Posted: 2/22/2011 3:49:38 PM
QUOTE

Originally Posted by MrGlue:



I really never got the entire story on the UB scandal... I had stopped playing there by that time. But, I thought that it was a "super user" who got busted on UB and that he was a "former" employee. Meaning, that the site had some slack security measures but wasn't trying to defraud it's players.

He was busted by players doing data analysis, btw.

Anyway, cheating and collusion does happen. No denying that...

But, that's very different than the actual sites themselves "rigging" the results of hands.

The NBA (any sport really) has refs that alter the results of games. Sure.

But that does not mean the NBA decides which teams will win which games before the season starts.


well doneghy offered a different outlook on that, i am just saying what happens in online cash games often leaves a sour taste in my mouth, is it rigged, who's to say.... i sports bet, it is my thing, sure there are bad beats but by and large i don't think it is fixed.... that being said every year i watch football and atleast 3-5 times a year something happens that make me shake my head and go "wow the logical explanation of that is it was fixed."

quote
dirtyfinger send a private message View Space | Friends | Playbook |
dirtyfinger
Participation Meter
Prospect
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1
Location:
#41
Posted: 3/9/2011 2:08:24 AM

ru joseph gerbbles R stu unger????????? one of u is dead so why spend so much time defending online poker? time is short,more productive ways of spending it.....unless ur being paid!!!!

quote
MrGlue send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook | My Sportsbook: Station |
MrGlue
Participation Meter
Prospect
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 244
Location: Nevada
#42
Posted: 3/9/2011 11:42:49 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by dirtyfinger:

ru joseph gerbbles R stu unger????????? one of u is dead so why spend so much time defending online poker? time is short,more productive ways of spending it.....unless ur being paid!!!!



Did you mean Goebbels and Ungar?

If so, both of them are dead.
quote
SOBLATANT send a private message View Space | Friends | Playbook |
SOBLATANT
Participation Meter
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1408
Location: Iceland
#43
Posted: 3/9/2011 4:44:41 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by dirtyfinger:

ru joseph gerbbles R stu unger????????? one of u is dead so why spend so much time defending online poker? time is short,more productive ways of spending it.....unless ur being paid!!!!



didnt want to bring that subject up again, but this is a very good possibility.
quote
bigrick2234 send a private message View Space | Friends | Playbook |
bigrick2234
Participation Meter
Veteran
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1581
Location: Illinois
#44
Posted: 3/29/2011 1:34:23 AM
GL  youre gonna need it


quote
dawniewags send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook | My Sportsbook: BetJamaica.com |
dawniewags
Participation Meter
Banned
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 2524
Location: California
#45
Posted: 4/16/2011 9:47:05 AM

the only site to play on in USA legally NO MONEY RISKED to win money is PUREPLAY.COM

YOU DO NOT pay a dime to enter any Cash tournament

YOU can be a paid meber for only $183  for the year to have easier entry options to win money in the $5000 weekly touney The$500 The $2000  one etc...

i play there and enjoy it the sit n gos are brutal  LOL

thats where you earn free cash to buy into other tourney's or points also you need to have to buy into the cash tourney's

most cash MTT's have limit of 200 entrants and the top 25 get paid something

the big one tho where you can win a seat in the WSOP you need to win a qualifier then finsih in final 4 in the semi to play in the $10,000  WSOP on May 22nd

YOU can also play as a basic member free but then you will have freeze ups and stuff from the ads script errors that run on each game you are in

i think new members can play for 1 month for only $1 then up to you to pay for the whole year or $20 per month

they have been up and running since 2002 they are based in Calif. and are the only legal regsitered USA poker site

 

quote
masterfulpicker send a private message View Space | Friends | Playbook | My Sportsbook: 5Dimes |
masterfulpicker
Participation Meter
Rookie
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 574
Location: New Jersey
#46
Posted: 4/16/2011 11:13:55 AM
well you don't have worry about rigged  or non rigged games because online poker is over for know for those sites ,
quote
IPartyALOT send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook |
IPartyALOT
Participation Meter
Banned
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1052
Location:
#47
Posted: 4/18/2011 6:46:57 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by sean2114:

1 - right

2 - right

3 - right i have not done any statiscal analysis, i am using my claim based on personal expierence, if you don't believe me then fine, i really don't care

 

In other words, I need an excuse for why I lost other than the fact i just suck. So I'll just cry rigged and it will make me feel better about losing all the time

 

Sounds about right

quote
sean2114 send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook |
sean2114
Participation Meter
All-Star
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 11292
Location: Ohio
#48
Posted: 4/18/2011 7:58:37 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by IPartyALOT:

 

In other words, I need an excuse for why I lost other than the fact i just suck. So I'll just cry rigged and it will make me feel better about losing all the time

 

Sounds about right


right somehow I win all the time in live casino poker but for whatever reason i suck at online play..... i play the exact same way in both situations
quote
sean2114 send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook |
sean2114
Participation Meter
All-Star
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 11292
Location: Ohio
#49
Posted: 4/18/2011 8:03:46 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by IPartyALOT:

 

In other words, I need an excuse for why I lost other than the fact i just suck. So I'll just cry rigged and it will make me feel better about losing all the time

 

Sounds about right


btw go play in 4-8 NL cash game in a live casino and tell me how often you get raised pre flop when your opponents got 10 5 off suit... happens on-line all the time
quote
IPartyALOT send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook |
IPartyALOT
Participation Meter
Banned
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1052
Location:
#50
Posted: 4/18/2011 8:13:26 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by sean2114:


right somehow I win all the time in live casino poker but for whatever reason i suck at online play..... i play the exact same way in both situations

 

Sure you win "all the time" live

 

They track your results online so you cant lie, its always funny how all the losing online players (like you) all say theyre winning players live. Pretty convenient that you suck when where they track your results but all of a sudden youre a winner when theres no way to prove it.

 

With all the excuses youve made already I highly doubt youre even a winning live player, youre broad generalizations about "this always happens" or "I always lose with this hand" is just purely donk talk

 

You probably sit at the live game complaining about how badly certain dealers treat you

 

Sorry to come off a bit rude, but when losing online players (you) try to make excuses for why you lost and blame the sites its just a slap in the face to people like me who consistently win online.

 

Online is much harder than live, thats why youre losing. Its not cuz its rigged. if its rigged, then why do I win every year? Lucky account? Please dont be dumb enough to think that

quote
Forum Index : Poker : Messages Page 2 of 5  1 2 3 4 5  
You have entered the forum as a GUEST. 
You must login/register to post or reply.