From my POV, it doesn't. It becomes about how the horses handle the ground. US soft is English good. Not worried about the French, UK and Irish. Even Horny will be fine on it. I know Curvy and Dutch Connection both flopped on soft at Belmont but both arguably showed they had vulnerabilities in their profile where soft ground is concerned.
As for the pace of the race, I don't know enough bout US racing to speculate how the jockeys react to soft ground but common sense would say slower pace. Golden Horn, Make Believe are two who will look like loving the chance to lead. Alice Springs and Legatissimo rests on Ryan Moore. Both should have enough speed to sit tight.
Last season I was pissed at the tactical ineptitude of Ryan Moore especially on Telescope but that's a different scenario as Telescope was a stamina laden horse asked to win in a race run at a crawl. This time round he has two fillies with plenty of speed to hold their positions tactically and the stamina to be asked a question a long way from home (3f) just before the home straight. Both have won around a bend so i don't see any worries on that score.
GL guys. Will switch threads closer to day to whichever is at the top.
From my POV, it doesn't. It becomes about how the horses handle the ground. US soft is English good. Not worried about the French, UK and Irish. Even Horny will be fine on it. I know Curvy and Dutch Connection both flopped on soft at Belmont but both arguably showed they had vulnerabilities in their profile where soft ground is concerned.
As for the pace of the race, I don't know enough bout US racing to speculate how the jockeys react to soft ground but common sense would say slower pace. Golden Horn, Make Believe are two who will look like loving the chance to lead. Alice Springs and Legatissimo rests on Ryan Moore. Both should have enough speed to sit tight.
Last season I was pissed at the tactical ineptitude of Ryan Moore especially on Telescope but that's a different scenario as Telescope was a stamina laden horse asked to win in a race run at a crawl. This time round he has two fillies with plenty of speed to hold their positions tactically and the stamina to be asked a question a long way from home (3f) just before the home straight. Both have won around a bend so i don't see any worries on that score.
GL guys. Will switch threads closer to day to whichever is at the top.
From my POV, it doesn't. It becomes about how the horses handle the ground. US soft is English good. Not worried about the French, UK and Irish. Even Horny will be fine on it. I know Curvy and Dutch Connection both flopped on soft at Belmont but both arguably showed they had vulnerabilities in their profile where soft ground is concerned.
As for the pace of the race, I don't know enough bout US racing to speculate how the jockeys react to soft ground but common sense would say slower pace. Golden Horn, Make Believe are two who will look like loving the chance to lead. Alice Springs and Legatissimo rests on Ryan Moore. Both should have enough speed to sit tight.
Last season I was pissed at the tactical ineptitude of Ryan Moore especially on Telescope but that's a different scenario as Telescope was a stamina laden horse asked to win in a race run at a crawl. This time round he has two fillies with plenty of speed to hold their positions tactically and the stamina to be asked a question a long way from home (3f) just before the home straight. Both have won around a bend so i don't see any worries on that score.
GL guys. Will switch threads closer to day to whichever is at the top.
Horrible draws for Cymric and Hit a Bomb. What are your thoughts on this race? I have a feeling this one could pay boxcars.
From my POV, it doesn't. It becomes about how the horses handle the ground. US soft is English good. Not worried about the French, UK and Irish. Even Horny will be fine on it. I know Curvy and Dutch Connection both flopped on soft at Belmont but both arguably showed they had vulnerabilities in their profile where soft ground is concerned.
As for the pace of the race, I don't know enough bout US racing to speculate how the jockeys react to soft ground but common sense would say slower pace. Golden Horn, Make Believe are two who will look like loving the chance to lead. Alice Springs and Legatissimo rests on Ryan Moore. Both should have enough speed to sit tight.
Last season I was pissed at the tactical ineptitude of Ryan Moore especially on Telescope but that's a different scenario as Telescope was a stamina laden horse asked to win in a race run at a crawl. This time round he has two fillies with plenty of speed to hold their positions tactically and the stamina to be asked a question a long way from home (3f) just before the home straight. Both have won around a bend so i don't see any worries on that score.
GL guys. Will switch threads closer to day to whichever is at the top.
Horrible draws for Cymric and Hit a Bomb. What are your thoughts on this race? I have a feeling this one could pay boxcars.
GC as always thanks for your great insight and information. My question is the same as SBs, what are your thoughts on the Euros in Fridays Juve Turf? Thanks in advance
GC as always thanks for your great insight and information. My question is the same as SBs, what are your thoughts on the Euros in Fridays Juve Turf? Thanks in advance
October 31st, I like tonalist. likeing the horse more and more these days . This four year old is fresh and I believe the other three ap, keen ice, frosted have run to exhaustion . looking forward to the juvenile two year olds would like to see the next group of derby contenders.
October 31st, I like tonalist. likeing the horse more and more these days . This four year old is fresh and I believe the other three ap, keen ice, frosted have run to exhaustion . looking forward to the juvenile two year olds would like to see the next group of derby contenders.
THE highest-profile British-trained runners at the Breeders' Cup will not run on lasix with their connections shunning the anti-bleeding medication at this year's event.
Golden Horn, Time Test, Secret Gesture, Birchwood, Cymric and Illuminate will race lasix-free, joining Miss France, Make Believe and Esoterique - whose trainer Andre Fabre has adopted a consistent stance against the drug's use at every Breeders' Cup he has contested.
All the Aidan O'Brien-trained challengers, including Gleneagles, and Legatissimo have been declared to run on lasix, as well as the rest of the French contingent, plus Britain's Mondialiste and Nemoralia, who both ran on it on their latest starts in North America.
Efforts to outlaw the use of raceday medication like lasix in the United States are being championed by the Water, Hay, Oats Alliance. It has the support of many prominent figures in the sport in the US, as well as Golden Horn's trainer John Gosden and wife Rachel Hood as president of the Racehorse Owners Association.
Opinion in the States, however, is generally divided and on Saturday there will be only three US-based horses not running on lasix, Sprint joint-favourite Runhappy being the most prominent.
'It flattened her'
Secret Gesture's trainer Ralph Beckett has used lasix in America previously and said: "I ran Look Here in the EP Taylor on lasix and regretted it. It flattened her and she is a very similar make and shape to Secret Gesture. She didn't need it in the Beverly D. I think it is great that Andre Fabre leads the way on this issue and I think there should be more of it."
He added: "I cannot be too dogmatic though. Muhannak [2008 Breeders' Cup Marathon] won on lasix. He did bleed a little, which was why he ran on it. You tailor it for each horse."
THE highest-profile British-trained runners at the Breeders' Cup will not run on lasix with their connections shunning the anti-bleeding medication at this year's event.
Golden Horn, Time Test, Secret Gesture, Birchwood, Cymric and Illuminate will race lasix-free, joining Miss France, Make Believe and Esoterique - whose trainer Andre Fabre has adopted a consistent stance against the drug's use at every Breeders' Cup he has contested.
All the Aidan O'Brien-trained challengers, including Gleneagles, and Legatissimo have been declared to run on lasix, as well as the rest of the French contingent, plus Britain's Mondialiste and Nemoralia, who both ran on it on their latest starts in North America.
Efforts to outlaw the use of raceday medication like lasix in the United States are being championed by the Water, Hay, Oats Alliance. It has the support of many prominent figures in the sport in the US, as well as Golden Horn's trainer John Gosden and wife Rachel Hood as president of the Racehorse Owners Association.
Opinion in the States, however, is generally divided and on Saturday there will be only three US-based horses not running on lasix, Sprint joint-favourite Runhappy being the most prominent.
'It flattened her'
Secret Gesture's trainer Ralph Beckett has used lasix in America previously and said: "I ran Look Here in the EP Taylor on lasix and regretted it. It flattened her and she is a very similar make and shape to Secret Gesture. She didn't need it in the Beverly D. I think it is great that Andre Fabre leads the way on this issue and I think there should be more of it."
He added: "I cannot be too dogmatic though. Muhannak [2008 Breeders' Cup Marathon] won on lasix. He did bleed a little, which was why he ran on it. You tailor it for each horse."
Ground update: Frankie continues to be upbeat but the reports I'm getting are simply not great. Wouldn't want to back Golden Horn on ante-post rules and run the risk of a non appearance. In any case we should be thankful he is not a tempting price! Far too short but I'd love for him to show you guys what he can do. Shame it wasn't run in Santa Anita this year :( Shame on connections of Free Eagle, Postponed and other 12f horses for ducking him when it's possible on soft ground he can be beaten.
Tonalist for me is the top older horse in the race BUT he cannot be asked to race in rear against these. Beholder and Honor Code of course have the form but Beholder yet to prove herself out of her comfort zone (out of Cali and possibly in the slop too) and Honor Code (severe stamina doubts).
The Juvenile Turf races-
Fillies: Alice Spring I'm on 6/1 Futures and she is a clear standout on class and form from the Euros even ahead of Illuminate. Illuminate's problem is her wide draw and most importantly of all, her stamina. Shows speed but this could be a war of attrition for stamina on softish ground. I think she's the one EW bet to nothing BUT Ryan Moore, for all his successes in Canada, France, Japan, Dubai, UK and Ire and Australia has yet to really earn complete trust in him in the US. His two wins in Canada on Curvy and Cannock Chase were normal runs given Woodbine has a relatively fair home straight but both were held up. Here Keeneland looks tighter then woodbine and he could hit trouble in running or be vulnerable to a false pace scenario. But alice springs should have the tactical pace to get herself out of trouble on ground she should have no problem handling.
Colts: Cymric and Hit it a bomb badly drawn from what I do know about turf racing in the USA. I would think they'd need a pace collapse to have a chance in any normal year (fast ground). New track (Keeneland) plus soft ground are unknown factors for me to navigate.
Class wise none of the Euros stand out though Cymric has by far the best singular piece of form in the field. Not impressed with any of the US form. Personally I'm going to play Cymric for the simple reason he has soft ground form and proven class in this Grade though vulnerable to an improver or the way the race will be run.
BUT I would not be surprised if he flops badly. An average race in my view class wise.
Ground update: Frankie continues to be upbeat but the reports I'm getting are simply not great. Wouldn't want to back Golden Horn on ante-post rules and run the risk of a non appearance. In any case we should be thankful he is not a tempting price! Far too short but I'd love for him to show you guys what he can do. Shame it wasn't run in Santa Anita this year :( Shame on connections of Free Eagle, Postponed and other 12f horses for ducking him when it's possible on soft ground he can be beaten.
Tonalist for me is the top older horse in the race BUT he cannot be asked to race in rear against these. Beholder and Honor Code of course have the form but Beholder yet to prove herself out of her comfort zone (out of Cali and possibly in the slop too) and Honor Code (severe stamina doubts).
The Juvenile Turf races-
Fillies: Alice Spring I'm on 6/1 Futures and she is a clear standout on class and form from the Euros even ahead of Illuminate. Illuminate's problem is her wide draw and most importantly of all, her stamina. Shows speed but this could be a war of attrition for stamina on softish ground. I think she's the one EW bet to nothing BUT Ryan Moore, for all his successes in Canada, France, Japan, Dubai, UK and Ire and Australia has yet to really earn complete trust in him in the US. His two wins in Canada on Curvy and Cannock Chase were normal runs given Woodbine has a relatively fair home straight but both were held up. Here Keeneland looks tighter then woodbine and he could hit trouble in running or be vulnerable to a false pace scenario. But alice springs should have the tactical pace to get herself out of trouble on ground she should have no problem handling.
Colts: Cymric and Hit it a bomb badly drawn from what I do know about turf racing in the USA. I would think they'd need a pace collapse to have a chance in any normal year (fast ground). New track (Keeneland) plus soft ground are unknown factors for me to navigate.
Class wise none of the Euros stand out though Cymric has by far the best singular piece of form in the field. Not impressed with any of the US form. Personally I'm going to play Cymric for the simple reason he has soft ground form and proven class in this Grade though vulnerable to an improver or the way the race will be run.
BUT I would not be surprised if he flops badly. An average race in my view class wise.
Ground update: Frankie continues to be upbeat but the reports I'm getting are simply not great. Wouldn't want to back Golden Horn on ante-post rules and run the risk of a non appearance. In any case we should be thankful he is not a tempting price! Far too short but I'd love for him to show you guys what he can do. Shame it wasn't run in Santa Anita this year :( Shame on connections of Free Eagle, Postponed and other 12f horses for ducking him when it's possible on soft ground he can be beaten.
Tonalist for me is the top older horse in the race BUT he cannot be asked to race in rear against these. Beholder and Honor Code of course have the form but Beholder yet to prove herself out of her comfort zone (out of Cali and possibly in the slop too) and Honor Code (severe stamina doubts).
The Juvenile Turf races-
Fillies: Alice Spring I'm on 6/1 Futures and she is a clear standout on class and form from the Euros even ahead of Illuminate. Illuminate's problem is her wide draw and most importantly of all, her stamina. Shows speed but this could be a war of attrition for stamina on softish ground. I think she's the one EW bet to nothing BUT Ryan Moore, for all his successes in Canada, France, Japan, Dubai, UK and Ire and Australia has yet to really earn complete trust in him in the US. His two wins in Canada on Curvy and Cannock Chase were normal runs given Woodbine has a relatively fair home straight but both were held up. Here Keeneland looks tighter then woodbine and he could hit trouble in running or be vulnerable to a false pace scenario. But alice springs should have the tactical pace to get herself out of trouble on ground she should have no problem handling.
Colts: Cymric and Hit it a bomb badly drawn from what I do know about turf racing in the USA. I would think they'd need a pace collapse to have a chance in any normal year (fast ground). New track (Keeneland) plus soft ground are unknown factors for me to navigate.
Class wise none of the Euros stand out though Cymric has by far the best singular piece of form in the field. Not impressed with any of the US form. Personally I'm going to play Cymric for the simple reason he has soft ground form and proven class in this Grade though vulnerable to an improver or the way the race will be run.
BUT I would not be surprised if he flops badly. An average race in my view class wise.
I definitely agree.......that and the fact that the Hannon family has burned a lot of chalk over here (0 for 10 lifetime in BC races)......I see that Illuminate is only 4th choice many places over there......a throwout for me.....Alice Springs, on the other hand, gets lasix 1st time and has a superior pedigree. Should be able to make her own trip form the 3 hole.
What's your opinion of Queen's Jewel in the F&M Turf? Another getting on lasix for the 1st time and Freddy doesn't usually come here unarmed.
Ground update: Frankie continues to be upbeat but the reports I'm getting are simply not great. Wouldn't want to back Golden Horn on ante-post rules and run the risk of a non appearance. In any case we should be thankful he is not a tempting price! Far too short but I'd love for him to show you guys what he can do. Shame it wasn't run in Santa Anita this year :( Shame on connections of Free Eagle, Postponed and other 12f horses for ducking him when it's possible on soft ground he can be beaten.
Tonalist for me is the top older horse in the race BUT he cannot be asked to race in rear against these. Beholder and Honor Code of course have the form but Beholder yet to prove herself out of her comfort zone (out of Cali and possibly in the slop too) and Honor Code (severe stamina doubts).
The Juvenile Turf races-
Fillies: Alice Spring I'm on 6/1 Futures and she is a clear standout on class and form from the Euros even ahead of Illuminate. Illuminate's problem is her wide draw and most importantly of all, her stamina. Shows speed but this could be a war of attrition for stamina on softish ground. I think she's the one EW bet to nothing BUT Ryan Moore, for all his successes in Canada, France, Japan, Dubai, UK and Ire and Australia has yet to really earn complete trust in him in the US. His two wins in Canada on Curvy and Cannock Chase were normal runs given Woodbine has a relatively fair home straight but both were held up. Here Keeneland looks tighter then woodbine and he could hit trouble in running or be vulnerable to a false pace scenario. But alice springs should have the tactical pace to get herself out of trouble on ground she should have no problem handling.
Colts: Cymric and Hit it a bomb badly drawn from what I do know about turf racing in the USA. I would think they'd need a pace collapse to have a chance in any normal year (fast ground). New track (Keeneland) plus soft ground are unknown factors for me to navigate.
Class wise none of the Euros stand out though Cymric has by far the best singular piece of form in the field. Not impressed with any of the US form. Personally I'm going to play Cymric for the simple reason he has soft ground form and proven class in this Grade though vulnerable to an improver or the way the race will be run.
BUT I would not be surprised if he flops badly. An average race in my view class wise.
I definitely agree.......that and the fact that the Hannon family has burned a lot of chalk over here (0 for 10 lifetime in BC races)......I see that Illuminate is only 4th choice many places over there......a throwout for me.....Alice Springs, on the other hand, gets lasix 1st time and has a superior pedigree. Should be able to make her own trip form the 3 hole.
What's your opinion of Queen's Jewel in the F&M Turf? Another getting on lasix for the 1st time and Freddy doesn't usually come here unarmed.
Queen's Jewel looked good in the early part of the year but was exposed in the Prix Diane and again the Prix L'Opera albeit coming in after a layoff. The French fillies bar Ervedya (miler) has looked inferior to the British and Irish fillies with Legatissimo the standout along with Found. Deserving favourite and given normal luck in running, she should win this doing handstands!
IF she really needed that run last time out, she'll be right there as she wasn't beaten far at all less then 5l. There's potential to improve for that but on all known form, she has a few lbs to find with the favourite.
Miss France for me is a bigger danger. Won the English Guineas last season but kept in training. Still a decent filly and not far off this season's top fillies.
Queen's Jewel looked good in the early part of the year but was exposed in the Prix Diane and again the Prix L'Opera albeit coming in after a layoff. The French fillies bar Ervedya (miler) has looked inferior to the British and Irish fillies with Legatissimo the standout along with Found. Deserving favourite and given normal luck in running, she should win this doing handstands!
IF she really needed that run last time out, she'll be right there as she wasn't beaten far at all less then 5l. There's potential to improve for that but on all known form, she has a few lbs to find with the favourite.
Miss France for me is a bigger danger. Won the English Guineas last season but kept in training. Still a decent filly and not far off this season's top fillies.
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