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Author: [Penalty Box] Topic: Gun problems that will remain
Stiln send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook |
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#1
Posted: 1/18/2013 3:00:45 AM
I haven't read through most of the threads here on covers about guns because frankly they're not addressing the main issues surrounding practical, ethical, and public health problems.

But some of the problems that have gone unanswered here on this forum or at least I haven't read anything about are:

1. Guns purchased from gun shows make up more than 40% of the guns that are owned here in America which require NO background check obviously reducing the chances of guns landing in the hands of a criminals.

2. Suicides are higher than homicides in terms of guns in the homes of Americans.

3. Guns used in self defense inside ones home makes up for less than 1% of their use.

4. There is no federal bureaucratic office that institutes universal background checks. Of course it is unconstitutional according to Printz v U.S.

5. Accidents that have occurred due to guns are unaccounted for and remain just as glaring an issue as homicides and suicide rates.

6. Just because someone owns or even carry's a firearm doesn't mean they possess the capacity or the skill to accurately take out a bad guy, and semi auto pistols (its not like people are conceal carrying around 6 shot revolvers) leave room for more inaccuracy because of a higher magazine clips which again lead to higher collateral damage.



Some things I've thought of and read about over the past few weeks.
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#2
Posted: 1/18/2013 3:02:39 AM
1. increasing the chances*******
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#3
Posted: 1/18/2013 3:28:58 AM
you sound like a responsible, experienced gun owner talking from a perspective of facts and reality...

alot of the incessant chirping on this site is about fantasy land stories and scenarios...

I think that is why some of the "usual suspects"  completely flipped out on your other thread with the slide show presentation... 
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#4
Posted: 1/18/2013 11:40:13 AM
Yup, there all facts. Nothing exaggerated or overestimated.

These are all glaring problems that I have not seen addressed once in any thread here since the sandy hook school shooting
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#5
Posted: 1/18/2013 11:42:57 AM
1. Guns purchased from gun shows make up more than 40% of the guns that are owned here in America which require NO background check obviously reducing the chances of guns landing in the hands of a criminals.

Did you not read Ricks post about him being required to have a background check done at a gun show?

http://www.covers.com/postingforum/POST01/showmessage.aspx?spt=87&sub=101523461

Is it an oversight or are you just lying?


2. Suicides are higher than homicides in terms of guns in the homes of Americans.

Are you suggesting that getting rid of guns will eliminate those suicides?


3. Guns used in self defense inside ones home makes up for less than 1% of their use.

Are you for getting rid of guns or not? 


5. Accidents that have occurred due to guns are unaccounted for and remain just as glaring an issue as homicides and suicide rates.

I don't believe I have seen any accounts of gun advocates that are unwilling to have more education mandated. I even believe there should be some kind of responsible storage laws but draw the line in having the government have the right to search your home to carry out such searches. A multiplier penalty after the fact is the only way I would agree with or in the context of another LEGAL search.


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#6
Posted: 1/18/2013 12:00:14 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by bowlslit:

1. Guns purchased from gun shows make up more than 40% of the guns that are owned here in America which require NO background check obviously reducing the chances of guns landing in the hands of a criminals.

Did you not read Ricks post about him being required to have a background check done at a gun show?

http://www.covers.com/postingforum/POST01/showmessage.aspx?spt=87&sub=101523461

Is it an oversight or are you just lying?


2. Suicides are higher than homicides in terms of guns in the homes of Americans.

Are you suggesting that getting rid of guns will eliminate those suicides?


3. Guns used in self defense inside ones home makes up for less than 1% of their use.

Are you for getting rid of guns or not? 


5. Accidents that have occurred due to guns are unaccounted for and remain just as glaring an issue as homicides and suicide rates.

I don't believe I have seen any accounts of gun advocates that are unwilling to have more education mandated. I even believe there should be some kind of responsible storage laws but draw the line in having the government have the right to search your home to carry out such searches. A multiplier penalty after the fact is the only way I would agree with or in the context of another LEGAL search.




If you come to my threads again with more bullshit we'll make sure you're thrown into the box again.......

But to address your simplistic rebuttals that again offer no substantive return to my OP....

1. Ricky person is wrong. I've been to countless gun shows and in fact have seen countless people purchase guns of all years made WITHOUT doing a state mandated background check. You are not required. The only precaution that is really taken at guns shows is the fact that there are 2 officers typically at the entrance to the event checking every single gun to make sure it is unloaded in addition to ammunition obviously not being sold inside the event. However it is sold typically a block or two outside.

Also Rick must have negated the private ownership when it comes to handing guns down to someone else or privately selling them to another individual which is NOT check by the state and local law enforcement officers which only proves that guns which are legally purchased can be just as easily give to criminals as we've seen in the columbine shootings where Harris and Clebold had a friend buy their guns for them at a sun show, and the sandy hook shootings where guns were stolen from his mother.

2. Im suggessting that yes if you get rid of guns suicides will drastically go down because the rate at which the next attempted suicide method which is death by hanging only has a success rate and is used by 60%+ of indivduals and typically older adults NOT teenagers, which their method is obviously and factually guns.

So yes the answer is yes, suicide rates will drastically go down if hand guns are not in the homes.

3. Are you dumb or just a brain dead zombie?? What have I been saying for the past weeks. It will be regualted at the state level, so be it as illustrated in Printz v. the United States of America.

5. You just made another claim that offers no value of any kind as you used the words, "I believe"

Would you like to take back that comment. We all know how that ended for you last time when you asserted that 80% of Americans own firearms.


And I actually did a little research on that grossly misinterpreted comment you made, the number is 41% with Finland being the only other country with a higher rate at 50%.



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#7
Posted: 1/18/2013 12:00:20 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Stiln:

Yup, there all facts. Nothing exaggerated or overestimated.

These are all glaring problems that I have not seen addressed once in any thread here since the sandy hook school shooting


Hmmm.....


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#8
Posted: 1/18/2013 12:11:50 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by bowlslit:



Hmmm.....




You're probably racing to google to find anything counterintuitive. That's funny!

I'll help you out go to your local library and we all know you haven't been there in some time as you furiously regurgitate talking points from talking heads, but go there and borrow:

http://www.amazon.com/Politics-Gun-Control-5th/dp/1594519870
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#9
Posted: 1/18/2013 12:12:33 PM
If you come to my threads again with more bullshit we'll make sure you're thrown into the box again.......

Interesting, I was unaware that you were afraid of having a discussion about the substance of what you posted. What did I post that was bullshit?


5. You just made another claim that offers no value of any kind as you used the words, "I believe"

So let me get this straight....I'm the first person in the history of covers to enter my opinion on a post?
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#10
Posted: 1/18/2013 12:15:42 PM


Jesus christ this really doesn't call for three head rollers but the numbered points I made are NOT opinions they are FACTS......


YOU  have gone on to use your own opinion. Please spare us your own opinion as this forum is well aware of your capacity or there lack of to interpret events or even interpret facts for that matter
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#11
Posted: 1/18/2013 12:26:08 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Stiln:



Jesus christ this really doesn't call for three head rollers but the numbered points I made are NOT opinions they are FACTS......


YOU  have gone on to use your own opinion. Please spare us your own opinion as this forum is well aware of your capacity or there lack of to interpret events or even interpret facts for that matter


It may be very funny to you to jump all over the mistake I made when I had intended to say that there are enough guns in the US for 80% of the citizens to have ONE.

The funny part will indeed be 5 years from now when you are still calling me stupid for the ONE time I made a mistake. The fact that it has been a week and you still cling to that mistake speaks volumes.

I never said or implied that anything you posted in #1 was your opinion.

I merely added that opinion to head off future comments regarding searching peoples homes merely to see if guns are stored properly. I entered that opinion because otherwise I would have gotten flack for being in favor of punishing people after their guns had hurt or killed someone. Too bad your in such a hurry to vilify me that you can't see through that.
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#12
Posted: 1/18/2013 12:32:28 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by bowlslit:



It may be very funny to you to jump all over the mistake I made when I had intended to say that there are enough guns in the US for 80% of the citizens to have ONE.

The funny part will indeed be 5 years from now when you are still calling me stupid for the ONE time I made a mistake. The fact that it has been a week and you still cling to that mistake speaks volumes.

I never said or implied that anything you posted in #1 was your opinion.

I merely added that opinion to head off future comments regarding searching peoples homes merely to see if guns are stored properly. I entered that opinion because otherwise I would have gotten flack for being in favor of punishing people after their guns had hurt or killed someone. Too bad your in such a hurry to vilify me that you can't see through that.


It does speak volumes of your character because you're constantly denigrating me and others for having this mysteriously low IQ yet, I've presented some pretty hard pieces of evidence that you're yet to refute in terms of banning or making it much more difficult to obtain a hand gun.

Face it you're not a smart guy when it comes to politics, God may have blessed you with other things but engaging in political discussions and debating for that matter is not your strong suit. You're a little slow when it comes to these discussions. Nothing to be ashamed of.
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#13
Posted: 1/18/2013 12:40:55 PM

1- if what you say is true, how would you know the 40% number? the vast majority of sellers at gun shows do background checks

2 - i don't care

3- i don't care

4- i have no problems with background checks at all

5- i care, but good luck in throwing money at that

6-  i thought the skill of the shooter determined accuracy, not the size of the magazine

and lastly, ammo is sold in the same room as the guns at all the shows i have ever been to

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#14
Posted: 1/18/2013 12:41:16 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Stiln:



It does speak volumes of your character because you're constantly denigrating me and others for having this mysteriously low IQ yet, I've presented some pretty hard pieces of evidence that you're yet to refute in terms of banning or making it much more difficult to obtain a hand gun.

Face it you're not a smart guy when it comes to politics, God may have blessed you with other things but engaging in political discussions and debating for that matter is not your strong suit. You're a little slow when it comes to these discussions. Nothing to be ashamed of.


False, I have only denigrated you for having a low IQ and that was simply because you often chastise someone for making a statement you disagree with without giving supporting reasons as to why you believed that statement is stupid. I'm not talking about correspondence with me. I saw that with others.

You are quite a bit more condescending than 14daroad. At least he supports his statements with some form of substance. You will just say something like:

" Hey f u ck tard that is the stupidest thing Ive ever heard. "

and nothing else.
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#15
Posted: 1/18/2013 12:49:38 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by captjohn67:

1- if what you say is true, how would you know the 40% number? the vast majority of sellers at gun shows do background checks

2 - i don't care

3- i don't care

4- i have no problems with background checks at all

5- i care, but good luck in throwing money at that

6-  i thought the skill of the shooter determined accuracy, not the size of the magazine

and lastly, ammo is sold in the same room as the guns at all the shows i have ever been to



Yeah well hopefully if you have kids or ever have kids one day they never commit suicide.  "You don't care" That's a pretty juvenile, simple-minded response.

Garage sales don't count as gun shows captjohn......
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#16
Posted: 1/18/2013 12:51:15 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by bowlslit:



False, I have only denigrated you for having a low IQ and that was simply because you often chastise someone for making a statement you disagree with without giving supporting reasons as to why you believed that statement is stupid. I'm not talking about correspondence with me. I saw that with others.

You are quite a bit more condescending than 14daroad. At least he supports his statements with some form of substance. You will just say something like:

" Hey f u ck tard that is the stupidest thing Ive ever heard. "

and nothing else.


I'm condescending to you and only you, maybe 14 too but hardly anyone else.


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#17
Posted: 1/18/2013 12:55:29 PM
QUOTE

Originally Posted by Stiln:



Yeah well hopefully if you have kids or ever have kids one day they never commit suicide.  "You don't care" That's a pretty juvenile, simple-minded response.

Garage sales don't count as gun shows captjohn......

i'll skip your threads in the future. I can't solve all the worlds problems, or teach parents how to be responsible. It sounds to me like you haven't been to many gun shows with your dumbass garage sales comment.

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#18
Posted: 1/18/2013 1:06:29 PM
So you don't give garbage about the suicide epidemic but you do care about

......I've been to many gun shows in NC and SC and every gun show I have been to in those two states did not allow the selling of ammunition inside of the event in addition to many of the private sellers did not conduct a background check....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_shows_in_the_United_States

"The remaining 33 states do not restrict private, intrastate sales of firearms at gun shows in any manner"
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#19
Posted: 1/18/2013 2:06:37 PM
I wonder if back in the years just before Rome fell if people boasted that they were too big and powerful to fall.

What if our society crumbled as we know it? What if we had to fend for ourselves and defend our rations from others?

Is that not reasonable enough to have guns in the home?

If I've been responsible and put supplies away for emergencies or other means, should I have to give all that up to the first person powerful enough to bust my door down?
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#20
Posted: 1/18/2013 2:35:07 PM
If you are speaking of straw purchases I agree. That is something that takes place at gun shows. I think that could be fixed by having an FFL booth to process the background checks for a small price. Every gun booth at a gun show in the continental United States must process background checks.

The issue is being obfuscated and misrepresented just like every other aspect of the gun grabbing agenda.

The "gun show loophole" is an easy fix, but what we are seeing is a push to end gun shows. This is the ultimate goal. People that want to end gun shows are not interested in easy fixes.

Just as Feinstein (who wants our 2nd amendment to only apply to flintlocks and crossbows) is not interested in common sense reforms, as she is attacking a class of weapon that is responsible for less than 3% of gun violence.

The problem is not negotiating. It is finding an honest party to negotiate with.

The NRA has been demonized like nothing I have ever seen before in the media lately.

Is that any type of environment to talk about compromise.

I for one support no law nor reform.

I will not vote for anyone that even sits at the table with these gun grabbers as they use these tactics.
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#21
Posted: 1/18/2013 2:36:50 PM
Currently thanking God that even though I made a mistake voting for a democrat senator who ended up being a wolf in sheep's clothing I had enough sense to counterbalance that with a vote for a republican in the congress Where any gun grabbing legislation will most likely die.
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#22
Posted: 1/18/2013 6:12:54 PM
Rick, you know how I feel about gun laws. As I have said this a million f u c k i n g times on this forum. Firearm laws will remain up to the states (Printz v. the U.S.). However, gun shows, suicides by hand guns, gun related accidents need to be evaluated as they are at the pinnacle of the problems that remain surrounding the use and possession of a fire arm.

Don't you think that guns have become a public health issue since suicides have eclipsed homicides in gun related deaths. There's no question that this issue has to be examined. Especially the sons and daughters of law enforcement officers and military personnel??

I'm not sure if you've heard of these other laws but (CAP) laws which are child access prevention laws that state that it is a crime to store a gun in which young persons can access them. Many states have these laws. However if this is the case and it is difficult to get to your gun at home, when an intruder breaks in, then you are extremely vulnerable if you can't get to your fire arm quickly.

There are so many variables, and this forum has neglected to acknowledge many of the issues in this thread that remain so vitally important when engaging in any kind of discussion surrounding gun laws. Wouldn't you agree?

However back to gun shows, even if you have the FFL present at the show, making sure that background checks are done that is certainly a step in the right direction BUT:

We will never be able to prevent people that are mentally ill from purchasing guns from other private individuals where background checks are not conducted. Because the laws in most states say that you can sell a fire arm to another person as long as they are 21 years of age and you do not have to conduct a background check obviously. And this problem here will never be able to be fixed even if the state of feds require these private individuals to conduct checks

So really what it comes down to, is this you have to have faith in humanity because even if the feds or states required the background check of a privately owned firearm  to be sold to a complete stranger, lets say, and this is a completely legitimate scenario, the guy buying the gun says hey I don't have time to go through this background check, or hey I just got pulled over by the cops and I don't have my license but I can assure you I am 21 (which is the federal gun law age)  but I can give you an extra $100 if you sell me your glock G30. Do you honestly think that even law abiding individuals are going to turn them down? 

This entire debate is extremely imperfect because the crazed lunatics will find a way to obtain a firearm if so desire.. However the Federal Government can certainly make it more strenuous and difficult in doing so to address the day-to-day gun crimes that we don't often hear on the news.
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#23
Posted: 1/18/2013 8:18:01 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Stiln:



You're probably racing to google to find anything counterintuitive. That's funny!

I'll help you out go to your local library and we all know you haven't been there in some time as you furiously regurgitate talking points from talking heads, but go there and borrow:

http://www.amazon.com/Politics-Gun-Control-5th/dp/1594519870


perhaps google is an improvement from fantasyland,,,,

hes still seems to be upset since you owned him that thread where he got caught in yet another lie by calling him out on his 80% of all citizens own guns BS...



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#24
Posted: 1/18/2013 8:18:55 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by captjohn67:

i'll skip your threads in the future. I can't solve all the worlds problems, or teach parents how to be responsible. It sounds to me like you haven't been to many gun shows with your dumbass garage sales comment.



I thought the "garage sale" comment was pretty funny. 
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#25
Posted: 1/18/2013 9:00:36 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by dl36:



perhaps google is an improvement from fantasyland,,,,

hes still seems to be upset since you owned him that thread where he got caught in yet another lie by calling him out on his 80% of all citizens own guns BS...





Really?

Which statement exactly displays such anger?

I predict Crickets!
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