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Author: [College Basketball] Topic: Was Reggie Hamilton Point Shaving? Yes/No?
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#1
Posted: 3/5/2012 12:29:17 AM
FACTS: 

1. Team up 9 points, he turns it over in backcourt
2. Team up 7 points, he takes quick on 1-4 run out
3. Team up 4 he misses two free throws
4. Team up 2, he makes only 1 free throw
5. Game tied, he misses lay-up

He's an 88% foul shooter. 
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#2
Posted: 3/5/2012 12:32:43 AM
give it up and take the lost.
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#3
Posted: 3/5/2012 12:33:39 AM
My opinion is yes 
81-70 with 2:37 remaining 
82-84 final score
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#4
Posted: 3/5/2012 12:34:03 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by utfootball4:

give it up and take the lost.


reggie aint throwin his final game of his college career
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#5
Posted: 3/5/2012 12:34:58 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by utfootball4:

give it up and take the lost.



Just like Auburn university right? A loss is a loss no biggie. But possible cheaters should be investigated.
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#6
Posted: 3/5/2012 12:35:21 AM
My opinion is you're a sour idiot.  
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#7
Posted: 3/5/2012 12:36:25 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by sloop703:



reggie aint throwin his final game of his college career

I don't at all think he was trying to throw game. He played well throughout the game. Point shaving and throwing game is way different. If you can't see realize that fact..
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#8
Posted: 3/5/2012 12:36:29 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Showtimetx:

My opinion is yes 
81-70 with 2:37 remaining 
82-84 final score

oh my god. that was actually the score???

WOW. you just make my oakland  feel 10 times worse.

that is really really bad...i know oakland pushes the ball but come on....any coach with half a brain would know to run down the clock and slow down possessions...
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#9
Posted: 3/5/2012 12:37:58 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by rzagza:

My opinion is you're a sour idiot.  
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#10
Posted: 3/5/2012 12:38:35 AM
they were getting 7 so why lose S/U ....you make no sense...why do people ALWAYS think the game they lost was rigged somehow ? grow up it was a loss...take it like a man 
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#11
Posted: 3/5/2012 12:42:42 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by joboarder:

they were getting 7 so why lose S/U ....you make no sense...why do people ALWAYS think the game they lost was rigged somehow ? grow up it was a loss...take it like a man 

I clearly said that i didnt think he was trying to lose. I said shaving points and I gave the facts..I DONT THINK HE WAS TRYING TO LOSE THE GAME. 

If I am the only one that think point shaving CAN occur, then I guess I am just an idiot. 

I will sit next to UNLV, San Diego, Auburn, and the NBA ref

It was a simple question as to do you think he was doing it.
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#12
Posted: 3/5/2012 12:48:02 AM
Did not watch the game or have money on it but I will assume he was shaving points since most of them are.
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#13
Posted: 3/5/2012 12:53:02 AM

On the morning of April 11, 2011, University of San Diego basketball coach Bill Grier received a surprise visit at his home from two FBI agents who told him that one of his former players, USD's alltime leading scorer Brandon Johnson, and another ex-USD player named Brandon Dowdy were being charged in federal court at that very moment with trying to fix games.

That information was shocking enough, but when the agents told Grier about the third defendant linked to USD basketball, former assistant coach T.J. Brown -- a man Grier thought highly of even as he dismissed him in 2007 to make room for his incoming staff -- Grier almost had to take a knee. "This thing shook me to my core," Grier said. "It really hit home for me when one of our players approached me and said, 'Coach, I don't know how much of my career was real.'"



It happens, this is USD...again, just asking.
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#14
Posted: 3/5/2012 1:02:25 AM
i would imagine that it does happen a little bit more than people suspect, but it's still very very rare that it does occur. but this isnt a horrible question man, cause this is actually the type of situation where shaving might occur; a relatively large line, with a very big lead, with time running short....Reggie would be the person most likely to shave, as he always gets the ball, and it's weird that he missed 3 of 4 free throws there in the last couple minuets, cause i think he's an 80-something % free throw shooter, and he hadn't missed at all that night...but yeah, then he missed a shot and turned it over too....shaving is most likely to occur when you have players who can control the game and reduce their efforts, yet still win the game but lose the cover

that being said, there's no way i think he threw it
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#15
Posted: 3/5/2012 3:34:50 AM
I've never been to this site or posted before, but when I watched the Oakland-SU ending Sunday night, I went and sought out conversation such as this to see if I anyone shared my feelings about what happened.

Why?

Because in all my years of watching basketball --- I'm 45 and have been betting on games since I was 18 or 19 --- I have NEVER seen anything like what happened this evening. And I have watched games that ended up being fixed/shaved that I had no idea were fixed/shaved when I was watching them.

This was too obvious folks. Reggie Hamilton is a seasoned vet who didn't just LOSE his mind in the final two minutes of a quarterfinal conference tournament game and start making ridiculously bad decisions against a team Oakland shoulda beaten by 15. And I watched this entire game --- the ebbs and flows of every back and forth lead change and momentum swing throughout --- and this smelled rotten the entire way (in hindsight, I admit) knowing now how it ended.

FACT: Oakland spots them a big lead early, then Hamilton takes over the game (just like he knows he can against an awful team like SU) and has 20-something before halftime to keep it close because --- as other posters have eluded too -- he didn't WANT to lose the game.He wanted it closer than 11 (specifically -5 1/2) with 2 min to go. Period.

And here's why I firmly believe that: I disagree strongly with anyone who thinks he WOULDN'T "throw" his final college game. Come on, folks ... when you're about to go out in the "real world" and have to earn a living --- and Hamilton isn't going pro anywhere but (maybe) the Donkey League in Lithuania, and he knows that ---- then what better time to START throwing games and earning an envelope stuffed with cash? I mean, this is your final chance to make some real money. And he wasn't trying to lose because he knew he had the rest of this po-dunk tournament --- which had, like, 8 people watching this game live in that shitty behind gym --- to shave/fix a few more, while also contending for a conference title, pride and a chance to reach the Big Dance. It makes perfect sense.

Don't believe it? Re-watch the BCS National Championship game between LSU and Alabama and apply the same theory to LSU QB Jordan Jefferson. I mean, rumor is that the kid was gambling in Harrahs the night before the game. Then he goes out and plays like he's never played the position before in the biggest --- but FINAL --- game of his college career?

Psshhh .....

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#16
Posted: 3/5/2012 3:35:32 AM
accept the loss and move on. This is part of gambling. We all know it happens and so when you gamble you take a risk regardless of illegal factors that may play into the game.  

My outlook on this topic would be why ask a question you can't get an answer too? If it happened you wouldn't know and if you did know there's nothing you can do about it so take the loss, don't bet this team anymore, and move on.
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#17
Posted: 3/5/2012 7:11:14 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by dizdoti:

accept the loss and move on. This is part of gambling. We all know it happens and so when you gamble you take a risk regardless of illegal factors that may play into the game.  

My outlook on this topic would be why ask a question you can't get an answer too? If it happened you wouldn't know and if you did know there's nothing you can do about it so take the loss, don't bet this team anymore, and move on.

A loss is a loss, got it. As a bettor the goal is to be over 52.4%, got it. When POSSIBLE illegal activity occurs, it should be looked into. 

Next time you get a speeding ticket for doing 80 MPH in a 35 MPH zone, don't fight it. Accept the fact there's shady law enforcement out there. Despite the fact you know you were driving only about 45MPH just pay the ticket and move on. 
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#18
Posted: 3/5/2012 8:57:52 AM
Showtime...if this game WAS investigated and Hamilton WAS found to be point-shaving would:

1. Sportsbooks & bookies give bettors back their $ after they already paid out the original winners who have already used that $ to gamble ever since that game occurred?

2. Would a bettor feel BETTER KNOWING that they lost money because a player was point-shaving?
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#19
Posted: 3/5/2012 9:21:34 AM
I follow Oakland, not a die hard fan of them or anything, just happen to be from the area.  Watched this team last year take down a good Tennessee team and go into Crisler and take it to the wire.

I had Oakland -298 in three 2 team pars, all of which would have won.  I was unable to watch the game, but followed the play by play as a good degen will do with his last pending bet of the week, and the cash is real, they win its instacash, they lose its right out of my pocket.

Yes, they were up 11 with 2:40 left, I felt secure.  But, not as secure I felt when they were up 7 with Reggie going to the line with under 130 left.  For him to miss 3 of 4 free throws and turn the ball over in his last game kinda blows my mind.  I don't ever think games are fixed, cause if you do this long enough, you know that &*^! happens, sometimes even your way. 

I just had a hard time wrapping my head around what happened. 

This was much worse than the Kentucky- Louisville, 6 points in the last 3 seconds for the backdoor.  I was on Kentucky, and it almost ruined my New Year.  Almost. 
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#20
Posted: 3/5/2012 9:32:41 AM
And why isn't Oakland's DEFENSE the suspect of the loss here? Their WHOLE DEFENSIVE UNIT gave up 12 points in 2.5 minutes on 6 possessions allowing them to score on 100% of those 3 possessions. Should've been 14 points but they missed their last 2 FTs.

Oakland has the 340th-ranked Defensive Effective Field Goal % in ALL OF DIVISION I college basketball (345 teams total?). They allow opponents to shoot 40% from behind the arc and 53.3% on 2-pt shots!

On the other hand you have Southern Utah who in point distribution, is the #1-ranked team that gets their points from 2-pointers in which they hit 51% of them, ranking them 54th IN THE NATION in 2P%!
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#21
Posted: 3/5/2012 10:08:40 AM
I'm forwarding this thread to the NCAA enforcement division for immediate action.
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#22
Posted: 3/5/2012 10:13:56 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by TexasD:

Showtime...if this game WAS investigated and Hamilton WAS found to be point-shaving would:

1. Sportsbooks & bookies give bettors back their $ after they already paid out the original winners who have already used that $ to gamble ever since that game occurred?

2. Would a bettor feel BETTER KNOWING that they lost money because a player was point-shaving?

It won't change my outcome or bettors outcome. It could pose a penalty so hard on the school that discourages future practices. Similar to any other investigation. Like I said before, I could have easily chose to bet SUU. It was my first loss and won't be my last.

If they investigate it or at least ask questions, it will help the integrity of the competition. I ain't naive to think that cheating doesn't occur. 
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#23
Posted: 3/5/2012 10:14:58 AM
*wasn't (i've lost plenty)
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#24
Posted: 3/5/2012 10:32:18 AM

Okay let me respond to this post.  I follow the Summit League about as close as anyone.  I have personally seen Oakland play twice and seen them on tv about a dozen times.  Reggie Hamilton is an amazing athlete and I honestly think he has a legit shot to work his way through the D-League and make an impact in the NBA.  His biggest problem is going to be his size but that has not stopped other players.  I think this guy is instant offense and could be a great 6th man eventually.

That being said the fault of this game had to do with the OAK head coach.  I said all along that the way SUU plays basketball OAK can run them out of the arena (sort of like what Bo Kimble and Hank Gathers used to do but of course not at that level).  Their game plan is to get more shots than you and convert at a higher percent = WIN.  They don't expend much energy on the defensive end of course that leads to turnovers at times.

Now the OAK head coach appearently believed they had this game in the bag because about the 10 or 12 minute mark he starts slowing the game way down which is playing right into the hands of SUU.  This game them time to reset their strong half court offense and also allow them to catch their breath to make one final run.  If OAK continued to run all game there is NO WAY and I mean NO WAY SUU wins the game let alone covers.  OAK could have named the score and would have won by at least double digits.

Did Hamilton make mistakes... HELL YES.  Those turnovers were just sloppy but in fairness a couple of them were fumbled by his teammates.  The miss free throws killed me the most especially from an 88% free throw shooter with the game on the line but if you watched the game you could see on his face that he was nervous as hell.  Momentum completely shifted to SUU and basically Hamilton and OAK chocked/$hit the bed.  In no way or shape do I believe Hamilton or OAK shaved points or attempted to lose the game.  OAK has been the gold standard in the Summit League for some time and they have a lot of pride.  I cannot tell you how many times OAK and their fans took over Frost Arena in Brookings, South Dakota. That is a long ways from Rochester, MI.

It was a BAD loss yes.  OAK should have covered and won absolutely but that is all it is.  Sometimes you get luckier than $hit and sometimes you get unluckier than $hit.  That was your night last night.  Just move on and forget it.  BOL!

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#25
Posted: 3/5/2012 10:42:39 AM
I agree SUIT got more attempts to score and won in the last 2.5 minuted, but to score 100% of the time on 6 possessions is horrible. Sure Hamilton made mistakes, but their D was HORRIBLE in the end and their stats shoe it on the year.
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