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Author: [Boxing] Topic: Chavez Sr (89-1-1 or 11-1-0) Those that never heard...
Qncyk1 send a private message View Space | Friends | Playbook |
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#26
Posted: 8/15/2012 5:42:29 PM

im not a dlh fan but prime dlh kicks the garbage out of canelo, cotto and budrage.

bundrage and canelo quite possibly on the same night.

dlh ko'd a near-prime vargas; that vargas still kicks the garbage out of canelo, budrage and cotto, three of the worst 154 champions in any era.

discrediting chavez because of his losses to dlh is no different than discrediting b-hop for his loss against dawson.

both were well past their primes and respective weight-classes.

chavez sr is an all-time great. you would have to be ignorant to think otherwise.

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#27
Posted: 8/15/2012 8:13:59 PM

My argument was in regards to Steele's process in his decision to stop the fight. DeHoyos said what the papers said... that Steele asked him twice and he was out cold on his feet. If he was out cold on his feet, then that was the greatest return to one's feet in history as he did it in 5 seconds and after a twelve round war. I usually see fighters out cold on their feet prior to hitting the canvas, or after going down and struggling to get up and having wobbling legs.

Taylor got up in 5 seconds, had sturdy legs, Chavez drifted away from the neutral corner, and Steele made a statement (not a question to Taylor) "Are you Okay!!" and before anyone could blink, Richard Steele raised his hands and stopped it and continued to ref for King. I remember other controversy with Tyson-Ruddock, and Don King's fighter won again due to an early stoppage.

Taylor got up, and I think he was stunned again trying to understand what Steele said so quickly. Steele either thought it was a speed speech contest, or he was more concerned with the clock running out (and Taylor winning) than his so called great concern for a fighter (usually the opposition to Don King).

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#28
Posted: 8/15/2012 8:36:26 PM

"I think he was stunned again trying to understand what Steele said. Steele thought it was a speed speech contest." ZOUK

 

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#29
Posted: 8/15/2012 8:39:28 PM

"ZOUK's StoryTime."

Everyone gather around!!! Lmfao

 

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#30
Posted: 8/15/2012 9:19:31 PM

"You take it so personal it is near scary." ZOUK

 

 

 

flake

 

 

 

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#31
Posted: 8/15/2012 10:02:25 PM

taylor was peeing pure blood after the fight and had to be hospitalized for almost a week. he literally got the piss beaten out of him. im sure that steele was well aware of the punishment meldrick was absorbing. the punishment that essentialy ruined meldrick taylor worse than the punishment that tito dished out that ruined vargas(who didnt even stay in the hospital one night after test came back negative), where there was never any controversy of the stoppage.

steele had no idea how much time was left in the last round nor was this his responsibility.

steeles only responsibilty is to determine if meldrick could reasonably defend himself after the knockdown, which taylor clearly could not.

 

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#32
Posted: 8/15/2012 10:47:27 PM

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#33
Posted: 8/16/2012 10:15:42 AM
look.  in man vs man chavez won that fight as he ruined taylor in this one, taylor was never the same, chavez went on the be successful afterwards  but as far as a boxing match goes taylor deserved it,  the fight was over their was 2 seconds left, it is the refs job to know this,  steele fucked up and everyone knows it and that is why their is contraversey, 
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#34
Posted: 8/16/2012 10:31:22 AM

a fighter cannot be saved by the bell.

where is it stated that it is a referees responsibility to determine if a fighter can continue after a knockdown depending on the amount of time remaining on the clock? if this were the case then referees would be required to wear watches.

in my opinion, the only people that believe that steele errored in his decision are the people that bet on taylor. what if there were 20 seconds left as opposed to two?

chavez couldve killed him, literally, in that time frame.

to find fault in steele not knowing that there were only two seconds left in the fight as opposed to 20 is as ignorant as discredititing chavez sr because of his losses to dlh.

 

 

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#35
Posted: 8/16/2012 4:51:48 PM
steele didn't darn up....taylor was through regardless of the clock. where the clock was is the controversy...taylor was done. all that happened at that moment wasn't thought out before hand. steele did his job and stopped the fight...22years ago...chavez ended his career period.
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#36
Posted: 8/16/2012 6:18:46 PM
if steele didn't darn up we would not still be talking about it today, if it was a good call we would not be writing this... man vs man chavez won it as he ruined taylor in this fight, he left the ring a different man than he entered it, but in terms of a boxing match taylor deserved it,    their was 2 friggin seconds on the clock, it is the refs job to know this, taylor was on his feet, this fight should of went to the scorecards.
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#37
Posted: 8/16/2012 6:34:49 PM
it is the refs job to know how much time their is left in the round, that is one of the reasons why their is is a ten second clap, this is why the refs are always preparing to jump in between 2 fighters when the round is up,  it is their job to know this, anyone who says differently is wrong, 
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#38
Posted: 8/16/2012 6:46:25 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by thesoulpurpose:

look.  in man vs man chavez won that fight as he ruined taylor in this one, taylor was never the same, chavez went on the be successful afterwards  but as far as a boxing match goes taylor deserved it,  the fight was over their was 2 seconds left, it is the refs job to know this,  steele fucked up and everyone knows it and that is why their is contraversey, 


Not fighters don't know this. It's like they never heard a ref say to a fighter "You got one round to show me something or I'm stopping it", or "You got one minute starting the next round to start showing me you can keep it competitive", or " if you don't start punching back, I'm stopping it...".
I once heard a ref say to a fighter late in the fight after a headbutt caused a cut over the eye "You don't have to continue because you are way ahead on the scorecards"...WHAT! First, I remember NJ started posting (open scoring) scoring after every few rounds (which I thought was stupid as it would hurt the sport in many ways), but this was previous and elsewhere so what if the ref was wrong?
Take DLH vs Tito, when DLH's corner told him to ease back as we was ahead. What if became aggressive and won the last few and won the fight... maybe a different career, or maybe being to aggressive causes him to get KOd. I think not knowing makes you fight every second as you never know. If you have a weak one punch power and are way behind, the final rounds will be boring.

As for JCC fans,a ref should know everything going on...
- Taylor was up in 5 seconds (not bad for twelve severe rounds) and wasn't wobbled
- Over Steele’s back, Chavez had left the neutral corner where the referee had instructed him during the count and after Steele had completed the count, Chavez was already almost in his own corner. If Steele noticed this, he should have stopped the count and take Chjavez back to the corner before resuming with the count. Had he done so, the fight would have ended before he had hurried the count and Taylor would have won.
- After Steele asked (or made a statement) him the second time “Are you okay?” he didn’t give Taylor a chance to answer, instead he waved the fight off immediately.
- BTW - Steele was aware of the time for several reasons and mainly this one: There were red lights in the ring corners that went on when there was ten seconds left in the round. During the eight count it seems like Steele looks right at the light and he should have known that there was not much time left. Maybe that's why he rushed???

DeHoyos: Replying around 30 times (and mostly to yourself as no one was disputing your last reply, or the next, etc..) to one post in two days is serious OCD and also gives you a lot of time  to constantly check the thread and if no one added, you do. Now that is a serious LMAO !!!
.  

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#39
Posted: 8/16/2012 7:04:59 PM

zab judah was up in one second after he was kd against tszyu.

its called instincts.

and how quickly a fighter gets up often has nothing to do with the condition of a fighter as was the case of meldrick taylor(spending the week in a hospital is about as close to death as one wants to be) and most recently soto/matthysse.

humberto was up at the count of four but was clearly done. this after only enduring five rounds of punishment as opposed to taylors 12.

sotos corner wisely stopped the fight, something that taylors corner should have done prior to the knockdown.

 

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#40
Posted: 8/16/2012 10:48:06 PM

"a fighter cannot be saved by the bell.

where is it stated that it is a referees responsibility to determine if a fighter can continue after a knockdown depending on the amount of time remaining on the clock? if this were the case then referees would be required to wear watches.

in my opinion, the only people that believe that steele errored in his decision are the people that bet on taylor. what if there were 20 seconds left as opposed to two?

chavez couldve killed him, literally, in that time frame.

to find fault in steele not knowing that there were only two seconds left in the fight as opposed to 20 is as ignorant as discredititing chavez sr because of his losses to dlh."

 

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#41
Posted: 8/18/2012 5:54:35 AM

oh u wanna forget about this thread now huh????

 

 

 

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#42
Posted: 8/18/2012 1:25:04 PM

thesoulpurpose is right on both post 36 & 37, Steele knew there was less than 10 sec left (there is a red light flashing behind the ringpost). Taylor's handler's tried to get rid of Steele because of his Don King connection. He was on his feet in 5 sec in the 12th round of the fight of the year, championship fight.

Imagine if Steele would have done the Gatti-Ward or Castillo-Corales fights? Steele stopped the Ruddock-Tyson fight with Ruddock on his feet (he was in trouble, but who isn't with Tyson). Steele sucks.

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#43
Posted: 8/18/2012 2:01:42 PM

www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9zKwGeHIgM

crowd cheering, championship fight, steele himself enduring 48 minutes of intense physical and mental stress, a seriously hurt and undefeated fighter...yeah, you guys wouldve done a much better job at referring this fight.

after all, some of you guys here procalim that you wouldve fought through a fractured sternum and broken jaw in two places with three rounds left in a fight(ortiz vs lopez).

fwiw, i failed to hear the clap with ten seconds remaining and this without having to encounter the aforementioned physical calamities that steele had to endure that night.

even if steele errored hes fallible unlike some of you guys here on the Covers boxing forum.

 

 

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#44
Posted: 8/18/2012 2:09:00 PM

this clip has a little better sound regarding the clap.

 

www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgenYK7VaxY

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#45
Posted: 8/18/2012 4:37:03 PM

Steele had seconds to decide after watching a brutal beating. I don't care if the man got up or not. He looked like a gargoyle. He had more lumps on his face then a full sugar bowl. It was pitiful and Steele probally felt mercy and alot more emotions. He did his job as a referee. No more no less.

 I hear ya Qncyk1...they were all over Ortiz with the quitting thing. There are a bunch of tough guys in this forum. darn the jaw and the spleen...ortiz is a box...lol

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#46
Posted: 8/18/2012 5:32:46 PM
DeHoyos
Topic: Chavez vs Taylor (No Immediate Rematch... Why?)

Posted: 8/18/2012 5:51:50 AM  POST#34

"WE" as in, u and me person...........



Just his replies speaks volumes about his age and maturity. He is insecure and follows one fighter that all he knows is write-ups and stats. His posts are either about stats are a write-up about a fighter you is no longer fighting. He must live in a village that all they show on local TV is Chavez replay fights.

This is not a lbs-for-lbs list, nor a Chavez worship site. There is a reason why Chavez is never spoken about when they talk about greats off all time. You can beat 50-60 unknown tomato can to start your career, then get spanked twice to the one guy (Oscar) that lost to every very good to great fighter except one.
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#47
Posted: 8/18/2012 6:47:19 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Qncyk1:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9zKwGeHIgM

crowd cheering, championship fight, steele himself enduring 48 minutes of intense physical and mental stress, a seriously hurt and undefeated fighter...yeah, you guys wouldve done a much better job at referring this fight.

after all, some of you guys here procalim that you wouldve fought through a fractured sternum and broken jaw in two places with three rounds left in a fight(ortiz vs lopez).

fwiw, i failed to hear the clap with ten seconds remaining and this without having to encounter the aforementioned physical calamities that steele had to endure that night.

even if steele errored hes fallible unlike some of you guys here on the Covers boxing forum.

 

 

you just admitted in this post that steele fucked up and you are right he did.  steele withstood 48 gruling min,   really? are you crazy,  refs dream of being called to work a big fight like this, just as fighters dream about being in fights like this, this one should of went to the cards.  steele withstood 48 gruling min,  I usually agree with most that you say but that is a crazy statement..  I guess steele should of been high atltitude training for this gruling event that is such a great test of human endurance, the man is a ref...come on man...
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#48
Posted: 8/18/2012 7:08:57 PM
Qncyk1, lets not over analyze what a ref does, their are 75 year old refs,  you can not use the word intense physical and mental stress in the same sentence as ref,   the only ref that had to endure intense physical work was ruby goldstein when he was working the robinson vs maxim fight, but that is a whole different situation.
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#49
Posted: 8/18/2012 8:58:54 PM

 youtube the interview merchant has with steele immediately after the fight. the guy was drenched in sweat and was actually sweating off his earlobe.

lederman, leonard, merchant and lampley all agreed with the stoppage and not one mentioned the light and steeles failure to recognize that there was only two seconds left in the fight. you can make a case that steele should have acknowledged the light going off but you can also make a case that he was focused entirely on the condition of taylor, which at this point was irrefutably grave and dire.

and if he did notice the light at what point does it register?

and what if the light was malfunctioning?

imo, meldrick taylor was quite possible one punch away from a gerald mcclellan outcome.

 

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#50
Posted: 8/18/2012 9:38:06 PM
we 100 percent disagree on this one...pretty sure you will not change your mind on it and I know I won't change mine, it is what it is.   but for me if we are still talking about a refs call like 22 years later.......
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