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Author: [Boxing] Topic: Chavez vs Taylor (No Immediate Rematch... Why?)
ZOUK send a private message View Space | Friends | Playbook |
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#1
Posted: 6/20/2012 6:02:02 PM
DeHoyos: I know you claim Mayweather is not undefeated (I could agree if Castillo destroyed him), but any fight that is competitive can be judged accordingly.
Chavez was 68-0 when he fought Meldrick Taylor. Steele was known for stopping some very questionable fights, and very coincidentally they were all in favor of Don Kings fighters. Do you believe Chavez won that bout, or was Meldrick robbed? If Meldrick was robbed, Chavez would be 68-0, then 68-1. It is very sticky for you to call out Mayweather, especially when he re-matched and won a UD months later.
If Chavez and his corner believed he won, why didn't they rematch right away? Instead, they fought..
Akwei Addo 5-3 in Spain... yes, 5-3 is 5 Wins- 3 Losses, not a soccer score.
Russell Mosley 4-3 in Mexico...
Jaime Balboa 44-12 in Mexico...?

Do you think an immediate rematch would have been called if Chavez lost?

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#2
Posted: 6/20/2012 6:24:32 PM
Chavez lost to pernell Whitaker and they called it a draw...pernell clearly beat Chavez....chavez beat Taylor fair and square, Steele asked Taylor if he wanted to continue and Taylor responded by saying he wants to drink camel piss. Steele had to stop it no matter how much time was left.....camel piss.lol
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#3
Posted: 6/20/2012 11:23:29 PM
If Chavez lost there would have been a rematch (Don King was his promoter). Meldrick was pissing blood after the fight, he took way too much abuse, all he had to do was use his speed to avoid Chavez more. That fight ruined Taylor's career.
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#4
Posted: 6/20/2012 11:46:35 PM
it is true that after this fight taylor was never the same and chavez went on to be very sucessful after,   so lets be logical here,  chavez ruined taylor in this one, he was never the same,  chavez had great performances after this one,   darn the judges, darn the ref,   chavez put a life altering beatdown on the man and THIS IS A FACT.  so who do you think won it?  to me it is obvious,   weather chavez physically beat him until he was never the same or mentally taylor could never recover ( as he though he won but got robbed) to me the winner is chavez as in reality he looked pretty good destroying camacho, haugen as well as a few lesser opponents afterwards, taylor was never the same.  taylor left the ring that night a different man then he walked into it,  this was not the case with chavez         
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#5
Posted: 6/21/2012 10:45:55 PM
I agree. Watching the fight I told people live I don't know how Taylor is surviving, and they thought I was crazy. They saw the flash and not the thunder!
I was making a political point that a rematch would have been done if Chavez lost. We can't always base our decision on the outcome... being a pro-poker player, all you can do is get you money in when you have a big advantage, but it doesn't guarantee success. I see bad players telling me I should have called a 10-1 shot, and the pot was paying me 4-1... only after it hit. If I did that I would not have won every week online for 4 years.
It's like a heavyweight fighter getting caught with a KO punch although he was clearly winning every round. Lewis showed this on his rematch with Rahman. The best was 8/5 odds laying Lewis over Tyson... a dream. After that, I knew they would make these match-ups were in fighters lost before they entered the ring... and today's 24/7 helps promote junk. Atleast back then you had better odds, but only local connects to bet through and few internet reliable sources.
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#6
Posted: 7/14/2012 3:16:31 AM

"I don't care about the time.When i see a man that's had enough, I'm stoppin the fight." Steele

"When that famous right hand of Julio Cesar Chavez landed..He went down like there was no more life in him....He got up,he pulled himself up...And I asked him twice...Are you alright? Are you alright? And he could not continue..." Steele

 

That fight should go in the dictionary under how a fighter gets physically broken down and gets all the fight beaten out of him.....

 

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#7
Posted: 7/17/2012 6:20:20 PM

Chavez's best fight. Why didn't Sweet Pea ever get a rematch? Unlike Taylor, he was not all beat up, he won easily.

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#8
Posted: 7/18/2012 8:56:15 AM

I was at the fight and there were Mexicans throwing bottles at the ring..Maybe that had something to do with it Lmfao

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#9
Posted: 7/18/2012 9:19:25 AM

"Do you think an immediate rematch would have been called if Chavez lost?"

Taylor needed a few months to recover from that fight...Im just speculating...Chavez never ducked anybody, lets not gloss over that fact....He also won every belt/title he tried to win..With the most world-title defenses in 300 years of boxing history.And the longest winning streak ever (13 years)

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#10
Posted: 7/20/2012 7:09:16 PM
Regarding Referees and how they decide when and why to stop a fight...
Many times you hear Refs tell a fighter he will give him another round to show something or he will stop it. As to the Chavez fight,.. I believe Chavez did so much damage he wrecked Taylor. Refs know the (as do judges you are owned by whom ever) simple rules and the gravity of a fight, and also if it goes one way or another.
I don't believe Steele (as he has been Kings man for years) and that fight an interview when he stated about that extra punch could kill a man.
The problem with that is he was on the canvas at 16 (15 was the start) seconds left and Taylor was up at 10 seconds left. At 6 seconds left, Steele was in such a hurry asking Taylor if he was alright... Why the urgency? Especially in a fight of such large build-up and great action, and Steele gave him less than 2 seconds to stop it. If Taylor was in such peril, how was he able to get up in 5 seconds after a monster right hand from Chavez?
Steele said "Are you OK!", without a second gone by he asked again, it was definitely less than a second, and doing it on the time clock and separate clocking it was four tenths of a second before he called it. Steele didn't wait for a reply and waived it off.
Why was Steele in such a great hurry, especially considering it was such a huge fight? Did he think the clock was going to expire?
People can buy into all that BS about it doesn't matter how much time is left... it was how it was done. If anyone feels Steele took his time to get a good look at Taylor, and also knowing that Taylor got up by 11 seconds to go and was 10 seconds, it's apparent Steele realized that he had to act fast, and that was the fastest stop not to mention it was a huge bout. Refs are known even in big fights to allow fighters to fight.
More often, Refs allow fighters to go the extra in major bouts.

Simply put, Steele was predetermined on stopping that fight. I never seen a referee in such a hurry as to ask a fighter twice repeatedly in less than 3 seconds.
Don King was the King, and owned fighters, judges, referees and even Presidents of sanctioning bodies like the José Sulaimán (Chagnón) of the WBC. Jose had fighters ranked in the top 5 and top 10 that the other 3 (2 were also main stream as WBO just started) sanctioning bodies didn't even have these fighters ranked in their 25 list.

That fight (an all-time classic) was of such magnitude that a referee had to be on his toes every second. Taylor was knocked down and on his feet in 5 seconds had to indicate he had his bearings. Steele known to be a top veteran must have taken that in to account among other things like the clock, and asking a fighter a question so fast and again without a second to ask again and stop it as soon as he finished his so called question or more like a statement.

Was Steele concerned if he asked Taylor at a normal pace and gave him a moment to answer that the bell would ring and Taylor would win? and Steele would no longer be Kings boy...
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#11
Posted: 7/20/2012 7:21:09 PM
If you can honestly say that Steele wasn't in a massive hurry when his questions were more like a recording on triple speed, then I have no more debate.
Maybe Steele should have been or even now try out for being an Auction Speaker. He spoke to Taylor so fast that imagine you just went 12 brutal rounds taking massive damage, getting knockdown and getting up quickly and having a guy talking so fast you thought it was one word. Then before you can blink you are asked again and in a half second after the second question the fight was called. Official final time was 2:58 of the Twelfth round, and if Steele asked the questions at just normal or quick and not so fast, and did a proper question and look at Taylor, then Taylor wins and they have an immediate rematch.
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#12
Posted: 7/22/2012 12:46:47 PM
There is a reason Richard Steele gets booed at every fight when they announce his name. Taylor was up and should have won. Remember Taylor's handlers requested a new ref, because they knew Don King and Steele are friends. They should have used Miles Lane for the fight.
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#13
Posted: 7/22/2012 7:01:58 PM
Lane was solid. Only fight I didn't agree with how he handled it was the Tyson-Holyfield II (rematch). Tyson was complaining regarding about headbutts that they previously warned Lane about prior to the fight (and also the elbows used as a push off and inside as a weapon). Tyson complained to Lane, but Lane just disregarded it and send Let's Fight. I think that also led to Tyson's rage. Then after the first bite, Lane let the fight continue. After the second bite he was clueless to why Holyfield stomped up and down. Either he had a bad day, took wrong medications, or was starting to lose his bearings and that was most likely it as he retired the next year and had a stroke four years later. They named a courthouse after him and he is 75 years of age!
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#14
Posted: 7/22/2012 9:25:13 PM

Lane did a bad job in the Tyson-Holyfield rematch, he should have been on Holyfield to make sure he was not headbutting.  Also he should have gave Tyson one more chance, he has never acted like that, Lane knows Holyfield is a dirty fighter (Tyson never did anything bad to Buster or Lennox, who beat him worse). A lot of people paid good money for a fight and Lane did not control the fight as good as he used to.

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#15
Posted: 8/14/2012 6:37:06 PM

Was Steele concerned if he asked Taylor at a normal pace and gave him a moment to answer that the bell would ring and Taylor would win? and Steele would no longer be Kings boy...

Would we have condemned Steele if Taylor would have died with one second left on the clock? Because we know he is brain-dead already...

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#16
Posted: 8/14/2012 6:53:34 PM

This wasnt a flash knockdown..It was the systematic breaking down of a man's body,mind,and will...With an accumulation of damage using a variety of blows,including devastating punches like "El Gancho." (The wire hanger) Chavez's specialty...Thats why he was urinating pure blood... This man truly had the fight beaten out of him....  

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#17
Posted: 8/14/2012 6:55:56 PM

(No Immediate Rematch... Why?)

 

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#18
Posted: 8/14/2012 7:47:59 PM
If it was so devastating, how did Taylor get up with half the count to go. Yes, Taylor was physically destroyed, but we all know King would not risk Chavez losing, so that's why they waited.
My question goes unanswered... What was Steele's hurry? Have you ever seen a championship fight (and the contender was winning on the scorecards), and the first knockdown is late in the last round in the manner Steele handled it? It was like he was told to do that. He didn't even look or wait for a reply the second time, so why even ask if you are already determined to stop the fight.
Most big and championship fights when a fighter has been down several times and seems to be hanging on, the ref often warns the fighter to pick it up and do something or he will be forced to do something. Did Steele do that at all? If Steele felt Taylor was in such danger, why didn't he ask him previous to the knockdown if he was OK to continue?
The no immediate rematch says it all. Millions wanted it, except King, and anyone else dependent on Chavez's winning.
People can blah blah about the guy dying with one more punch.
THE FACT IS... HE WAS TAKING SEVERE PUNISHMENT BUT WINNING THE BOUT. HE GOT HIT WITH A HUGE PUNCH WITH SECONDS LEFT, BUT SOMEHOW THIS DYING MAN WAS ABLE TO GET UP WITHOUT FLOPPING AROUND AND UP IN HALF THE COUNT TIME.
If he appeared like Tyson did after Douglas knocked him down, then I'd agree. If he flopped around like Trevor did in his loss to Tyson I'd agree.
Apparently the man that was winning but taking a life beating was totally aware the entire bout and was able to get up after twelve vicious rounds and a huge shot. He got up like it was an early knockdown.
To let a man fight 35 minutes and 57 second with everything he had for the championship, and even though he was taking serious damage he was winning the bout. The in the final moments he got hit with a huge shot that floored him, and most spectators that watched the bout would have bet big that he would not beat the count got to watch Taylor rebound and show perseverance and get up as though it was an early knockdown is a champions heart. Then to get stripped and allow another man (Richard) steal that away is another example of boxing corruption.
Steele's concern was continuous fights and not opinions of people that don't sign his check. Where was his concern throughout this battle? How many times did he as Taylor is he was OK previous to the knockdown? After the knockdown he made more of a statement and repeated it so fast as he waved of the fight.
BIG FIGHTS HAVE REFS ASK FIGHTERS TO WALK TOWARDS THEM...hmmm, then again THAT WOULD HAVE TOOK TO MANY SECONDS AND STEELE WOULD HAVE GONE BACK TO REF FIGHTS IN SOUTH AFRICA!
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#19
Posted: 8/14/2012 7:55:08 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by DeHoyos:

(No Immediate Rematch... Why?)

 



All the people who endorse and make money off Chavez stood to lose too much in an immediate rematch.
If anyone thinks the differ, they are in denial or don't know any better.

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#20
Posted: 8/15/2012 1:21:13 AM

STEELE WOULD HAVE GONE BACK TO REF FIGHTS IN SOUTH AFRICA!

How many times did he as Taylor is he was OK previous to the knockdown?

 

The man was out on his feet..... 

 

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#21
Posted: 8/15/2012 6:15:36 AM

"Do you believe Chavez won that bout, or was Meldrick robbed????? I told people live, I don't know how Taylor is surviving, and they thought I was crazy....I was making a political point that a rematch would have been done...Being a pro-poker player, all you can do is get you money in when you have a big advantage, but it doesn't guarantee success...It's like a heavyweight fighter getting caught with a KO punch although he was clearly winning every round (Taylor)...I believe Chavez did so much damage he wrecked Taylor......" ZOUK

 


 

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#22
Posted: 8/15/2012 4:11:51 PM
DeHoyos: I said the same thing live... " I don't know how Taylor is surviving and that he would never be the same again". I was mocked! It does not take away the fact of how Steele handled the fight. Fighters out on their feet either don't go down, or get up stumbling and tilting all over! As a pro-poker player, you are correct in concept about getting your money in with the best of it, but sometime I will throw away a 2-1 favorite as I know I will catch this player at 7-1 or more during a game. The best players often muck the best hands and suffer more bad beats... the reason and logic is that they are better players and usually have the better hands and therefore on a close hand not worth the risk they fold, and in a scenario they are a major favorite and take a bad beat is part of the game.
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#23
Posted: 8/15/2012 7:55:11 PM

dumb*ss, those are all quotes that u vomitted out.....

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#24
Posted: 8/15/2012 8:27:21 PM

Really, I didn't notice. I know what I said, but how does that have anything to do with Steele making a terrible or corrupt decision??? Nothing!

Taylor had his legs, went the distance (except the few seconds Chavez needed to win) toe-to-toe, got up at 5 count, his opponent was headed in to neutral corner (IS IT NOT STEELE'S JOB TO CORRECT THAT???????????),... and if you can say Steele was not in a hurry to ask a question, then a statement and didn't wait for an answer as he waved his hands and called the fight. My remarks had nothing to do with a terrible decision (OR CORRUPT)...

ALL YOU GOT TO DO IS ASK THE MOTIVE... "Why would Steele cheat for Chavez? BECAUSE IF HE SCREWED UP AND TAYLORWON, KING WOULD HAVE A NEW MAIN EVENT GUY! What was the big hurry? If the clock ran another 2 seconds, Taylor wins and Steele loses his future main event ref bouts for King. THIS CAN CONTINUE AS WE KNOW THE TRUTH HERE!

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#25
Posted: 8/15/2012 8:56:18 PM

"Taylor had his legs, went the distance."

Is that all you need to continue in a fight is ur legs??? 

And he didnt go the distance...Chavez's plan all along was to get him in the final rounds...

 

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