What's All the Fuss About?

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Author: [Boxing] Topic: What's All the Fuss About?
walktheline PM walktheline
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Posted: 6/10/2012 1:19:15 PM
This fight wasn't particularly hard to score. People are delusional  Pacquiao fanboys if you think this fight wasn't close. 

Bradley won the first three rounds, the first two clearly. 
Pacquiao finds his rhythm and clearly wins the next three. Even fight through 6, without question.

Bradley wins round 7 imo, but a case could be made for Pacquiao. 
Bradley wins round 8.
Pacquiao wins round 9.
Bradley clearly wins round 10.
Pacquiao wins 11.
Bradley wins 12 easily. 

115-113 Bradley. It could just as easily be 115-113 Pacquaio. Could have been a draw. This was a close, solid fight. If anyone has a problem with the scoring they don't know what the hell they are watching. Also, if you watched the HBO feed I feel sorry for you. You shouldn't have to be subjected to such silly bias.
Jerseyboy89 PM Jerseyboy89
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Posted: 6/10/2012 1:23:51 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by walktheline:

This fight wasn't particularly hard to score. People are delusional  Pacquiao fanboys if you think this fight wasn't close. 

Bradley won the first three rounds, the first two clearly. 
Pacquiao finds his rhythm and clearly wins the next three. Even fight through 6, without question.

Bradley wins round 7 imo, but a case could be made for Pacquiao. 
Bradley wins round 8.
Pacquiao wins round 9.
Bradley clearly wins round 10.
Pacquiao wins 11.
Bradley wins 12 easily. 

115-113 Bradley. It could just as easily be 115-113 Pacquaio. Could have been a draw. This was a close, solid fight. If anyone has a problem with the scoring they don't know what the hell they are watching. Also, if you watched the HBO feed I feel sorry for you. You shouldn't have to be subjected to such silly bias.

Thank you.  
walktheline PM walktheline
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Posted: 6/10/2012 1:28:05 PM
Judges scoring analysis: 

http://www.fightnews.com/Boxing/bradley-pacquiao-scoring-summary-and-analysis-118029
loulo13 PM loulo13
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Posted: 6/10/2012 1:35:01 PM
Next Saturday I'll be a judge.
GoogsVL3 PM GoogsVL3
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Posted: 6/10/2012 1:49:19 PM

I think you are delusional!!

Bradley lost the first 4 rounds and he knew it! Thats why he changed his game plan and ran the rest of the fight!!!!

 

gamblingallday PM gamblingallday
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Posted: 6/10/2012 1:55:56 PM
The first round, Bradley "controlled" til late when Pac got off the the only meaningful shots of the round in the last 30 sec or so. You could give that round to Bradley.

Pac won the next 8 rounds.

Bradley won the 10th, as Pac appeared to have taken the round off.

Pac won the 11th.

12th round was fairly even. I suppose you can give that round to Bradley.

Pacquiao landed 82 more power shots than Bradley. Bradley was hurt several times in the fight. Bradley was forced to hold more than several times during the fight to subdue the onslaught. After the first few rounds, Bradley ran to survive until the 10th when Pac took it off. Pac was never hurt, never ran, never held, landed more, landed harder.
GoogsVL3 PM GoogsVL3
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Posted: 6/10/2012 1:58:13 PM
QUOTE

Originally Posted by gamblingallday:

The first round, Bradley "controlled" til late when Pac got off the the only meaningful shots of the round in the last 30 sec or so. You could give that round to Bradley.

Pac won the next 8 rounds.

Bradley won the 10th, as Pac appeared to have taken the round off.

Pac won the 11th.

12th round was fairly even. I suppose you can give that round to Bradley.

Pacquiao landed 82 more power shots than Bradley. Bradley was hurt several times in the fight. Bradley was forced to hold more than several times during the fight to subdue the onslaught. After the first few rounds, Bradley ran to survive until the 10th when Pac took it off. Pac was never hurt, never ran, never held, landed more, landed harder.

Exactly 

DannoDanger PM DannoDanger
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Posted: 6/10/2012 2:06:12 PM

Close fight, but I think Pacquiao won more rounds (and I had a big bet on Bradley fwiw).  Bradley's a very good boxer, but he can't crack an egg. 

As far as the HBO crew, it really is disgraceful.  They should be calling the fight, offering insight into gameplans, adjustments being made, etc. and letting the viewer enjoy the fight and form their own opinion on who is winning (particularly in a close fight like this).  Instead they are waving pom-poms all night and giving the other guy zero credit for anything.  Really embarrassing fawning over a guy who wasn't dominating in any way.  Lampley is quickly becoming (or already is) the Hawk Harrelson of boxing. 

walktheline PM walktheline
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Posted: 6/10/2012 2:15:47 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by gamblingallday:

The first round, Bradley "controlled" til late when Pac got off the the only meaningful shots of the round in the last 30 sec or so. You
could give that round to Bradley.

Pac won the next 8 rounds.

Bradley won the 10th, as Pac appeared to have taken the round off.

Pac won the 11th.

12th round was fairly even. I suppose you can give that round to Bradley.

Pacquiao landed 82 more power shots than Bradley. Bradley was hurt several times in the fight. Bradley was forced to hold more than several times during the fight to subdue the onslaught. After the first few rounds, Bradley ran to survive until the 10th when Pac took it off. Pac was never hurt, never ran, never held, landed more, landed harder.

Sorry pal, but you sound like a fool. You also have no idea how to interpret "punch stats" either. Anything other than a jab is a power shot. That means nothing. Manny doesn't jab anymore. That's hardly shocking and essentially irrelevant. Compubox is also notoriously flawed and misleading. 

EVERY SINGLE JUDGE gave Bradley rounds 7, 10, 11. EVERY SINGLE JUDGE gave Pacquiao rounds 3,4,6. There isn't much to dispute about the scoring of these rounds. 

Bradley won rounds 2,5,8,11 on two of the three cards. Not particularly hard to figure out. It was also mixed, as in not the same two judges all the time. What's so hard to understand? 

Get over it people, Pacquiao lost fair and square. 
walktheline PM walktheline
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Posted: 6/10/2012 2:20:08 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by DannoDanger:

Close fight, but I think Pacquiao won more rounds (and I had a big bet on Bradley fwiw).  Bradley's a very good boxer, but he can't crack an egg. 

As far as the HBO crew, it really is disgraceful.  They should be calling the fight, offering insight into gameplans, adjustments being made, etc. and letting the viewer enjoy the fight and form their own opinion on who is winning (particularly in a close fight like this).  Instead they are waving pom-poms all night and giving the other guy zero credit for anything.  Really embarrassing fawning over a guy who wasn't dominating in any way.  Lampley is quickly becoming (or already is) the Hawk Harrelson of boxing. 


It truly is embarrassing how biased HBO commentary is at this point. Brian Kenny and Mario Lopez completely outclassed them on the SKY feed. Lopez is friends with Pacquiao and agreed with the Bradley nod, saying it could have went either way.

Brian Kenny "I can't believe people are upset with the scoring. I have no problem with either guy winning 115-113. The ONLY way I would have been upset is if it would have been wide for one guy on a card."

DannoDanger PM DannoDanger
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Posted: 6/10/2012 2:26:37 PM
I was watching the HBO PPV at a party.  There were times when Bradley would land a shot and everyone in the room would go 'ooooh' (obv not a hard punch or anything, but still solid shots) and the HBO crew would talk right over it or even credit Pacquiao with landing a counter or something.  At least Max was trying to point out at the end that people he trusts/respects had Bradley winning the fight.  Him and Kenny are very close, so he was probably talking about him.  Thomas Hauser had Bradley scored the fight for Bradley too.
DannoDanger PM DannoDanger
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Posted: 6/10/2012 2:27:46 PM
And the worst thing about all this bs controversy is it overshadows Randall Bailey.  wow
WillyWonka PM WillyWonka
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Posted: 6/10/2012 2:34:20 PM
boxing is a joke
this fight was decided before the fight began

Fuckin joke
realscififan PM realscififan
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Posted: 6/10/2012 2:34:45 PM
QUOTE

Originally Posted by gamblingallday:

The first round, Bradley "controlled" til late when Pac got off the the only meaningful shots of the round in the last 30 sec or so. You could give that round to Bradley.

Pac won the next 8 rounds.

Bradley won the 10th, as Pac appeared to have taken the round off.

Pac won the 11th.

12th round was fairly even. I suppose you can give that round to Bradley.

Pacquiao landed 82 more power shots than Bradley. Bradley was hurt several times in the fight. Bradley was forced to hold more than several times during the fight to subdue the onslaught. After the first few rounds, Bradley ran to survive until the 10th when Pac took it off. Pac was never hurt, never ran, never held, landed more, landed harder.

You can throw 50 more power punches a round and still lose the round.  You have to be effective doing it.  Ali vs everyone he did the rope a dope against was the perfect example.  His opponents threw 50+ more power punches during those rounds and Ali still won those rounds.  You have to have effective power punches, not just power punches.  AGAIN....I have not seen the fight and wont until tomorrow night.  I will have the sound off and score it myself. I am not a boxing judge but have been watching and scoring since 1970.

The amount of punches and power punches mean nothing, it is the qualifty of the punches and power punches.

 

walktheline PM walktheline
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Posted: 6/10/2012 2:35:43 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by DannoDanger:

I was watching the HBO PPV at a party.  There were times when Bradley would land a shot and everyone in the room would go 'ooooh' (obv not a hard punch or anything, but still solid shots) and the HBO crew would talk right over it or even credit Pacquiao with landing a counter or something.  At least Max was trying to point out at the end that people he trusts/respects had Bradley winning the fight.  Him and Kenny are very close, so he was probably talking about him.  Thomas Hauser had Bradley scored the fight for Bradley too.

It' been this way for several years now. I simply can't stomach it at this point. We'll be seeing that Bailey knockout for a long time. It's rare to see an uppercut with that type of precise power. It really was a beautiful thing. 
Redlad PM Redlad
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Posted: 6/10/2012 2:59:25 PM
Even Kellerman admitted that many of the boxing pundits at ringside thought Bradley won the fight. I scored the fight 115-113 for Manny but can't be too upset with the decision. Boxing is a subjective sport, especially the scoring. Manny fought a lazy fight, taking off the first two minutes of many rounds. His jab was nonexistent. Bradley showed big guts & kept throwing punches. I've seen 1,000 worst decisions in boxing.The crowd was 90% in favor of Pac-Man & overreacted to every punch he threw. Arum buries Mayweather chance for a mega fight. Pac-man gets paid back for the terrible decision in the last Marquez fight. So (as Walk the Line says) ....What's all the fuss?
gamblingallday PM gamblingallday
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Posted: 6/10/2012 3:08:40 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by walktheline:


Sorry pal, but you sound like a fool. You also have no idea how to interpret "punch stats" either. Anything other than a jab is a power shot. That means nothing. Manny doesn't jab anymore. That's hardly shocking and essentially irrelevant. Compubox is also notoriously flawed and misleading. 

EVERY SINGLE JUDGE gave Bradley rounds 7, 10, 11. EVERY SINGLE JUDGE gave Pacquiao rounds 3,4,6. There isn't much to dispute about the scoring of these rounds. 

Bradley won rounds 2,5,8,11 on two of the three cards. Not particularly hard to figure out. It was also mixed, as in not the same two judges all the time. What's so hard to understand? 

Get over it people, Pacquiao lost fair and square. 

The whole outrage is about the awful scoring, so to justify yourself by using the scorecard that everyone already has a problem with is stupid.

If you cannot see what happened in the fight, then you dont know how to watch boxing. The first 4 rounds were pretty lively because Bradley stood toe to toe and wanted to exchange. He got the worst of those exchanges and kept getting hurt. Thats why he kept holding. He then tried to roughhouse Pac a bit using his head, trying to bully in the clinch etc (nothing wrong with that btw) but Pac was unaffected by it. Then, Bradley skated and ran from the middle rounds til late. If you cant see that, if you cant read what was going on in the ring, then you dont know how to watch boxing. But if you saw that and still thought bradley won then you are dumb.

And the punch stats back up what happened in the ring. And it wasnt even close.
gamblingallday PM gamblingallday
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Posted: 6/10/2012 3:14:19 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by realscififan:

You can throw 50 more power punches a round and still lose the round.  You have to be effective doing it.  Ali vs everyone he did the rope a dope against was the perfect example.  His opponents threw 50+ more power punches during those rounds and Ali still won those rounds.  You have to have effective power punches, not just power punches.  AGAIN....I have not seen the fight and wont until tomorrow night.  I will have the sound off and score it myself. I am not a boxing judge but have been watching and scoring since 1970.

The amount of punches and power punches mean nothing, it is the qualifty of the punches and power punches.

 



If you didnt see the fight why are you making irrelevant comments on it.

jabs thrown:
Pac - 258       Bradley - 449

jabs landed:
Pac - 63         Bradley - 51

power punches thrown:
Pac - 493       Bradley - 390

power punches landed:
Pac - 190       Bradley - 108

walktheline PM walktheline
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Posted: 6/10/2012 3:18:44 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by gamblingallday:


The whole outrage is about the awful scoring, so to justify yourself by using the scorecard that everyone already has a problem with is stupid.

If you cannot see what happened in the fight, then you dont know how to watch boxing. The first 4 rounds were pretty lively because Bradley stood toe to toe and wanted to exchange. He got the worst of those exchanges and kept getting hurt. Thats why he kept holding. He then tried to roughhouse Pac a bit using his head, trying to bully in the clinch etc (nothing wrong with that btw) but Pac was unaffected by it. Then, Bradley skated and ran from the middle rounds til late. If you cant see that, if you cant read what was going on in the ring, then you dont know how to watch boxing. But if you saw that and still thought bradley won then you are dumb.

And the punch stats back up what happened in the ring. And it wasnt even close.

You don't know what you're talking about, plain and simple. Pacquiao simple gave away the fight in the second half. He won one round on the scorecards, round 9. All three judges sucked? Think about that... 

ALL THREE sucked? It would be one thing if the scores were all over the place, but they weren't. In fact, this fight was judged remarkably consistent. The fact that half of the rounds were unanimously scored is clear proof of that.

Also, top acting like the punch stats were lopsided. They weren't. You are speaking like a scorned bettor. Stop it. 
realscififan PM realscififan
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Posted: 6/10/2012 3:24:41 PM
QUOTE

Originally Posted by gamblingallday:



If you didnt see the fight why are you making irrelevant comments on it.

jabs thrown:
Pac - 258       Bradley - 449

jabs landed:
Pac - 63         Bradley - 51

power punches thrown:
Pac - 493       Bradley - 390

power punches landed:
Pac - 190       Bradley - 108

Because the amount of punches and power punches thrown mean nothing.  It is just a stat they put up.   Look at the old Ali fights.  He never threw the most punches and never had the most power punches and was ahead every time.  It is the effectiveness of the punches, not the power or the amount of punches. 

My original question was, Were the punches effective?   Doesnt matter how many punches or the power of the punches.  Never has and never will.

rzagza PM rzagza
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Posted: 6/10/2012 3:43:54 PM
Walk, come on man. Manny landed every single meaningful punch. He hurt him numerous times. 
walktheline PM walktheline
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Posted: 6/10/2012 3:47:36 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by rzagza:

Walk, come on man. Manny landed every single meaningful punch. He hurt him numerous times. 

He never hurt Bradley. He did land the only hard punches. Bradley simply can't punch. However, that doesn't mean he didn't win rounds. 
rzagza PM rzagza
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Posted: 6/10/2012 4:07:53 PM
You're crazy. He cracked him with straight left hands all night. 
TheParrot PM TheParrot
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Posted: 6/10/2012 5:02:19 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by walktheline:

 
Bradley won the first three rounds, the first two clearly. 
Pacquiao finds his rhythm and clearly wins the next three. Even fight through 6, without question.

Bradley wins round 7 imo, but a case could be made for Pacquiao. 
Bradley wins round 8.
Pacquiao wins round 9.
Bradley clearly wins round 10.
Pacquiao wins 11.
Bradley wins 12 easily. 

How can you say that Bradley "won the first three rounds, the first two clearly" when Pacquiao was unanimous on all three judges' scorecards for the third round and favoured 2 to 1 for the first round.  On top of that, except for two of the judges at ringside, I think everyone agrees with you that Pacquiao took the fifth round.  So after 6 rounds, Pacquiao easily up 5 rounds to 1 round (4 rounds to 2 rounds at worst).  Even by your scorecard, you give Pacquiao the 9th and 11th round which means  7 rounds for Pacquiao (6 rounds at worst).

Again, I'll agree with you that this was a close, solid fight, but no way anyone can make a convincing argument that Pacquiao lost by decision - worst case would be a draw.

BTW, I had money on Bradley (in case you think I'm biased towards Pacquiao)

Bet details for ticket number  250811292-1:

Bet Type: Future
Bet Status: Win  
Risk/To Win Amount: 50.00 / 175.00 (CAD)
Date Accepted: 9-June-2012
Time Accepted: 6:54:25 PM (Pacific)
Amount Paid: 225.00
Description Boxing
  Welterweight
  Timothy Bradley vs Manny Pacquiao
  Timothy Bradley vs Manny Pacquiao
  Timothy Bradley +350
Bet details for ticket number  250811292-1:

Risk/To Win Amount:

50.00 / 175.00 (CAD)

Date Accepted:

9-June-2012

Description

Boxing

 

Timothy Bradley vs Manny Pacquiao

 

Timothy Bradley +350

8k0 PM 8k0
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Posted: 6/10/2012 5:07:35 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by walktheline:


He never hurt Bradley. He did land the only hard punches. Bradley simply can't punch. However, that doesn't mean he didn't win rounds. 
even bradley admitted he got rocked a few times lol, but props to him for standing tall
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