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Author: [Boxing] Topic: Margarito vs Cotto II (odds,analysis & thoughts, revenge...gloves?)
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#1
Posted: 6/22/2011 8:57:49 PM

Opening line for December 3rd: Cotto -250 Margarito +175

Does the opening line seem in-accurate to any? Thoughts on how this fight will differ and how much of a physical & psychological does the non-plaster golves play? Any feel Cotto wants revenge or it's just another fight for him?

Three years later and Margarito took 2 severe beatings from Mosley and Pacqiuao, and has 1 win by decision since. Cotto took a beating from Pacqiuao and had a war with Clottey. Cotto also has had 3 KOs against decent competition with a questionable decision win over Clottey. Cotto the more active, and what impresses me is the late TKO against Yuri in round 9 and in round 12 against Mayorga. Margarito hung in while taking a beating from Manny when I felt the fight should have been stopped because Margarito's eye was so bad and he wasn't doing any damage to show the fight should continue. Now, with no questions regarding gloves, how does this fight play out including the recent activity of both fighters?

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#2
Posted: 6/22/2011 9:57:07 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by ZOUK:

Opening line for December 3rd: Cotto -250 Margarito +175

Does the opening line seem in-accurate to any? Thoughts on how this fight will differ and how much of a physical & psychological does the non-plaster golves play? Any feel Cotto wants revenge or it's just another fight for him?

Three years later and Margarito took 2 severe beatings from Mosley and Pacqiuao, and has 1 win by decision since. Cotto took a beating from Pacqiuao and had a war with Clottey. Cotto also has had 3 KOs against decent competition with a questionable decision win over Clottey. Cotto the more active, and what impresses me is the late TKO against Yuri in round 9 and in round 12 against Mayorga. Margarito hung in while taking a beating from Manny when I felt the fight should have been stopped because Margarito's eye was so bad and he wasn't doing any damage to show the fight should continue. Now, with no questions regarding gloves, how does this fight play out including the recent activity of both fighters?


To be honest, I'm not sure this fight will actually go off. If it does, Cotto simply outboxes Margarito at a very measured pace for a very lackluster win, either a wide margin on the cards or a late stoppage (swelling, cuts, etc)

Cotto has little interest in mixing it up anymore. Margarito? He'll come to fight and be there to be hit. However, I don't think he'll be able to do enough damage to Cotto to turn the tide. If you remember correctly, Cotto was putting on one of his best "boxing" performances of his career in the first half of their first fight. 

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#3
Posted: 6/22/2011 11:09:31 PM
Yes indeed, I was highly impressed with Margarito's ability absorbing brutal head & body damage and coming on strong.
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#4
Posted: 6/24/2011 1:19:21 AM
Margarito has been TRASH since the concrete wraps were exposed.  It's not a coincidence.  It's obvious that was the reason he beat Cotto in the first fight.  Did you see Cotto's face?  Have you seen the faces of the fighters Margo has fought since?  Not a mark on them.

Both guys are faded from what they were.  But Cotto wins here mainly b/c Margarito is a complete fraud.
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#5
Posted: 6/24/2011 3:07:22 AM
looks like a snoozer to me, would lean cotto if forced to make a play
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#6
Posted: 6/24/2011 3:58:58 PM

Again nc1capper & rzagza, I agree. Seems obviously painful cause it usually takes longer for fighter that were so HOT just a blink ago, faded into dust.

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#7
Posted: 6/25/2011 9:51:06 PM

Cotto wins by KO, he will be out for revenge. He was unbeaten before the first fight and it probably ruined the end of his career. Margachetto had to comeback to win last time, Cotto is in better shape of the two at this point of their careers. Also don't forget Margachetto is a slow starter throughout his career.

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#8
Posted: 6/25/2011 10:08:06 PM
Cotto is more serious guy, therefore the revenge factor is over-played in boxing, and to Cotto it's just another fight. It's not like team sports and school pride. Margarito took a beating from Manny, and I don't see Cotto being more active, faster or hard-punching to stop him before the final round. Regardless, Cotto had a war with Mosley that could have gone either way prior to Margarito that basically gave you an idea where Cotto stands. Margarito slows sloppy punches, but I give the guy credit for being a warrior (maybe a cheater), but the Manny fight he had every reason to quit and didn't. I see Cotto that has the better boxing skills to win via decision.
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#9
Posted: 6/29/2011 1:06:12 AM
I think Margarito is finished. He took two beatings and wont be wearing plaster this time. Cotto got this
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#10
Posted: 7/1/2011 6:34:56 PM
Pacquiao's defense is a lot better than Cotto's. He's faster, and has a much better chin than Cotto. Somehow..Margarito still touched Pac up a fair amount. He lasted the whole fight and got pummeled every single round, yet didn't go down. Fought with a BROKEN ORBITAL BONE. I mean...even if most of us don't respect Margarito b/c of the handwraps..you gotta respect his determination..his will to keep on fighting. Now..is Cotto fast enough to outbox him?..for a while..but we saw the 1st fight Cotto was outboxing him..for about 6-7 rds straight..won almost all of those rounds, hitting Margs with bombs. Then margarito got to him..why?? because his chin is incredible and he keeps coming forward. I think as a Cotto backer you gotta be wary.
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#11
Posted: 7/1/2011 9:44:22 PM

GMandBeyond: I posted in a thread about the toughness of Margarito even in spite of the hand wrap controversy. Apparently he fights just as hard without special wraps (if they existed) but he has failed to damage or hurt an opponent since. Yes I think it's been only 3 fights, but all that damage he did to Cotto after taking a beating, and then not fazing the last 3 opponents. Also, you'd have extra incentive to continue and battle (when he fought Cotto and was taking a beating) if you knew your punches were going to get harder as the fight continued. He has proven since that he still has the heart, but heart won't be enough when you can't damage your opponent. I noticed that Margarito (even though it's his style) throws wild off balance arms punches. Paul Williams is crisp puncher but they are similar in the fact that they are big with reach but they like to fight inside and out-work opponents with non-stop punching. I wouldn't be very confident with Cotto because he has had a rough go and I'm not sure what to expect of him. Late 2007 he went toe-to-toe with Mosley and had 7 fights after that. He took the beating against Margarito and a worse one against Pacquiao. He won a suspect decision in a 12 round war against Clottey. He stopped Gomez, TKOd a one loss Jennings, TKOd and undefeated Foreman and got a 12th round TKO against Mayorga. Compare that to Margarito's three fights he's had since they met in which he lost two and took severe beatings.

Cotto's been more active and has fought great, good and average fighters for a nice mix. I feel Cotto wins this fairly easy with crisp accurate boxing and will be more effective in the clinches and his shorter reach allows him to throw more react defensively faster and better. I don't feel this fight has big time written on it, or revenge, but I feel it has more to offer than many boxing fans feel it is 2 over-the-hill fighters. I remember watching Mosley vs Vargas in 2006 and thinking Mosley is totally done and has nothing left to offer the sport or any younger talented contenders or champions. A rematch he looked improved and decent winning TKO, then beat Collazo in a decision. Over the next 4 years he fought the best of the best. Only Mayorga (TKO) didn't fit the superstar opponent cast, and at times Mayorga cause Mosley problems with his wild wreckless approach. His other 5 opponents were Mora(D), Margarito(TKO), Cotto(L-UD), Mayweather(L-UD) and Pacquiao(L-UD). It wasn't just the opponents but the timing, like Cotto was undefeated, Margarito just KOd Cotto, Manny just wrecked Margarito and Mayweather was going into his 2nd fight return from retirement.

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#12
Posted: 7/3/2011 7:50:29 AM
You know If someone beat me up with something illegal the way Margarito beat Cotto it would not be just another fight. It has to be in his head! I think Cotto would be there to punish him but not throw caution to the win. Cotto to me turned into a business man with well picked fights where he stopped get pounded and cut up. I look for Cotto to win a few more fights then have a big pay day fight. If he wins that another if not retire. He resurrected his career with guys that couldn't hurt him.
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#13
Posted: 7/6/2011 1:40:11 AM

That's the busniess for most. As much as we like to see non-stop toe-to-toe action, fighters knows that it only takes one fight with so many head shots, and now consider many fights that are like this. It's most severe for fighters with great chins, don't swell or cut but don't have the defensive skills and one punch power to end a fight. These fighter end up in their 40's talking very slow, and they don't have parkinsons disease. I remember over a decade ago doing an interview explaining that he has to fight in different states cause major boxing states will not give him a license. A feel very bad for these fighters (similar to NFL linemen who are crippled 10 years after retirement). Most didn't make enough to retire when big paydays were mostly only heavyweights, and the percentages they gave to owners, promoters, management, training and etc. I'l make another thread with this in mind, but Buster Douglas after beating Tyson fought Evander. His payday was 24 million. Most people fail to realize after all payouts and taxes he cleared 1 million. He got 4% they estimated.

Back to Cotto. He is a good fighter but should be fighter one weight class lower, where he would be much more dominate and he can easily make weight. Cotto is a man of serious nature and takes things as they come. His serious expression is a natural tone of how he views life. I think most fighters would have a grudge and feel revenge, but to Cotto this is just another fight. He didn't even press the issue regarding his fight after Mosley's camp exposed the controverial hand wraps of Margarito. Cotto basically said that he felt it was not fair and whatever boxing decides he'll live with and move on.

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#14
Posted: 7/17/2011 2:22:53 PM
On Margarito ALL DAY EVERY DAY.

He will have a LOT to prove in this fight.  He was able to take everything Manny Paq had and was still standing at the end of the night.

He will be out to prove the first one wasnt a fluke.  AT BEST this should be a "pick 'em" fight.  there is SERIOUS value in Margarito at +175.  IMO.  I won bank on him the first time around.  He'll do it again.
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#15
Posted: 7/17/2011 2:27:42 PM
You guys are trippin if you think post-wraps Margarito does no damage.  Manny Paq was hospitalized after his fight w Margarito.  Had to cxl several public appearances immediately after because he was flat busted up.  This is NOT for dispute.

Marg wasnt ineffective vs Mosley because of the wraps.  He was drained because there were scale issues leading up to the weigh in.  His team screwed up.  The scale in his room was inaccurate, and Margarito thought he was over weight.  He went back into a sauna and lost a few more pounds (that he didnt have to lose), and weighed in a few pounds below the limit.  He was FCK'D because of it.  All the illegal wraps in the world wouldnt have mattered...he couldnt throw any punches he was so assed out.
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#16
Posted: 7/17/2011 6:09:49 PM
jbell. Your argument is convincing. I still think Cotto though, because of Steward in his corner.
 Your argument that Pac had to be hospitalized after the fight doesnt do much for me though. Many fighter go to the hospital after a fight. Brain scans and MRI's this is somewhat normal. Plus he was fighting a fast pace fight and most likely was very dehydrated, so he needed IV's.
 I just like Cotto here. Margarito is slowing and plodding, no quickness at all.
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#17
Posted: 7/17/2011 9:09:36 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Goldfisch:

jbell. Your argument is convincing. I still think Cotto though, because of Steward in his corner.
 Your argument that Pac had to be hospitalized after the fight doesnt do much for me though. Many fighter go to the hospital after a fight. Brain scans and MRI's this is somewhat normal. Plus he was fighting a fast pace fight and most likely was very dehydrated, so he needed IV's.
 I just like Cotto here. Margarito is slowing and plodding, no quickness at all.


My man, I am not talking about run of the mill, post-fight once-overs.  Im talking full-on, bed-ridden in a hospital for several (8-10) days.  That is NOT the norm after fights.

Im telling you, AT BEST this fight is a pick-em...at BEST.  At +175, ALL the value is on Margarita.  He has (and already has) the ability to walk through ANYTHING Cotto could throw at him. 

The Tijuana Tornado is too much for Cotto.  The first hard punch Cotto gets hit with is gonna have him guessing the rest of the fight if this guys wraps are loaded, etc.  Once that sh*t starts to accumulate, Cotto (or his corner) is gonna "no mas" it. He has no reason to take that beating again.  Cotto's been through the rougher end of it between the two.  Im telling you. 

Margarito has so much more to prove at this point.  His entire redemption, to an extent, lies in this fight. 

Look, Im not even a die hard fan of these guys.  Hopkins is my guy, but I follow the sport like a mother fkr, and Im just callin it like I see it. 
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#18
Posted: 7/17/2011 9:30:00 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Goldfisch:

jbell. Your argument is convincing. I still think Cotto though, because of Steward in his corner.
 Your argument that Pac had to be hospitalized after the fight doesnt do much for me though. Many fighter go to the hospital after a fight. Brain scans and MRI's this is somewhat normal. Plus he was fighting a fast pace fight and most likely was very dehydrated, so he needed IV's.
 I just like Cotto here. Margarito is slowing and plodding, no quickness at all.
  There is NOTHING having Steward in his corner is going to do about it.  Cotto will throw everything and the kitchen sink, and Margarito will walk through it and grind him down all over again.

Margarito is less worse for wear than Cotto, IMO, and at this point in their respective careers, he has sooo much more to prove.  His entire legacy, and, at this point, only chance at redemption, lies in beating Cotto.  It will show that the first result wasn't a fluke.

On the other side of it, you have to wonder that Cotto wil start getting psyched out at the first solid punch he takes.  Its gonna be playing with his mind whether this guy is loaded up or not.  I just dont think at this point in his career, Cotto's team will let him get beat to a pulp again.  He was beat the fck up in their first fight, and has been in some other serious wars.  I see them "no massing" it again...or suffer another prolonged beat down.

Look, I could care less about these guys other than I enjoy their respective styles.  Ex is my guy.  I follow the isht outta the sport (which doesnt make me right), so I have watched both these guys for a while and I know what they do in their off time. 

I think its awesome they're getting back in the ring again.  Thats cool of Cotto, cuz many were telling him to not give this guy a fight.  There was some bitterness on Team Cotto's part.  This is going to be a great fight.  If anyone should be favored here, its Margarito.

This is covers.com.  When we see Margarito going off at +175, you gotta jump all over that.  I'l be a mushroom cloud laying mother fkr if that line doesn't NARROW.  I'll be a wood laying mthrfkr if thos odds widen.

Look, BOL if you ride w cotto.  I'll be around to say "Good job" if he turns out the victor.  I'll even feel a little good for him given the cloud around the first go-round.  I'll feel equaly good for Margs if he takes it, as I wouldnt mind seeing a little redemption. 

This fight is just gonna be round 13 of the original.
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#19
Posted: 7/17/2011 9:32:23 PM
And sorry for the double-post, boys.  I tripped and thought I erased my first response, when in reality there is some latency from when you hit "submit" to when it actcually posts.  Jackass that I am
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#20
Posted: 7/21/2011 7:02:35 PM

Hey Jbell I think that margarito has a hugh advantage in this fight cause he is in his head and also the percentages of a loser winning a rematch is low. Besides that there isn't anything stewart is gonna do that will help. You can't teach an old dog new tricks. Especially in boxing.

 Didn't pac-man do a concert or make an appearance to sing after the margarito fight? GL

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#21
Posted: 7/22/2011 2:54:53 AM
JBell13: Cotto has a serious fighters mentality and doesn't follow the hype like most others which shows his attitude is pure focus. To think Margarito landing a sloppy wild punch will rock Cotto and make him tenative or psychologically at a disadvantage is absurd. This is a fighter has always maintained that composure under all circumstances. The fact he said so little about what Margarito's future in boxing after the hand wrap scandal should be (after he was the one who was impacted the most) a pointer that the man takes every fight serious with the same intentions. Cotto's only concern if he had one would be the beating he gave Margarito early and Margarito came charging back. I guess if you knew your punches were going to get harder the longer the fight went on you also would have greater incentive to survive and then retaliate. I give Margarito credit for withstanding a one-way beating Manny delivered to him. Neither fighter is a quitter, and both have been through wars, but recently Cotto has been more active and more successful and Cotto being the better boxer will make all the diference.
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#22
Posted: 7/22/2011 2:59:18 AM
Also, it's difficult to find value in a fighter (even at +175) that has recently been unable to win a fight in an impressive fashion or a dominant performance since the hand wrap scandal. He took two severe beating (KOd once) and won a 10 round decision against average competition.
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#23
Posted: 11/8/2011 10:25:22 PM

I think its crazy Cotto is such a favorite.  He's the better boxer for sure, but this will not stay a boxing match beyond the first half of the fight if even that long. These guys legitimately do not like each other.  Margarito's height and reach advantage, and more importantly better chin will end up being the difference.  Cotto would have won the first fight had Margarito not had plaster in his globes, but Cotto has not been the same fighter since that beating and he will feel the need to try to slug with Margarito at some point and the outcome will look very much like the first fight.  I hope Cotto boxes and follows Mosley who threw flurries and then tied up Margarito.  If Cotto does that and uses his head, he could win this fight, but that is probably not going to be the case.   Take Margarito with those odds...

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#24
Posted: 11/9/2011 1:05:20 AM
Because of so much controversy with hand wraps previously, it helps confuse the odds. Cotto was physically destroying Margarito (very tough man), then in a few rounds his face is getting cut all over by punches... you don't think those wraps got hard? I've seen comebacks and this was no different then Panama getting Aaron Pryor that "special" water in the late round where he rejuvenated and beat Alexis (RIP).
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#25
Posted: 11/9/2011 11:49:53 AM
Cotto should take it.  I believe the value is quite fair at that too.  Cotto decision 8 rounds to 4.  GL all. 
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