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Author: [General Discussion] Topic: "GUN CONTROL" makes the problem much worse
Allbutbroke send a private message View Space | Friends | Playbook |
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#51
Posted: 12/16/2012 11:21:38 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by CoverLane:

guns dont kill people

people kill people


no, people with guns kill people.  Come on - you are smarter than that.   A solution is right there but you gents are to stubborn, proud, blind, or god knows what to accept it.
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#52
Posted: 12/17/2012 12:08:31 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by StraightShooter:

Oh, so because a madman didn’t intentionally drown the children, it’s ok that they are dead and it’s not worthy of attention?   

Wise up.

More children drown every year than are killed by guns, yet there’s no highly emotionally groups that are completely devoid of logic screaming for us to ban swimming pools. Do some research and tell me I’m wrong.


You are not wrong, but surely to god you are more intelligent than this.  Should we ban cars because more people die in motor vehicle collisions.  Come on - use common sense - this incident is about the availability of guns to an evil, mental cold blooded killer.  It is not about the manner of accidental deaths.  Geez, when you make such comments it certainly takes away from your credibility to logically look at this situation.
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bill702
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#53
Posted: 12/17/2012 12:22:59 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Allbutbroke:


Ah yes, violent opposition from another mediocre mind.
Awww isn't that sweet.
So you take a quote from a media outlet and take that as absolute truth now?
I would love to see your math if you don't mind. So the U.S. had a Per capita rate of 2.98 per 100k and Canada is at .76 per 100k for homicidal gun related deaths, but let's not forget who by far as you stated has a higher gun ownership rate. Where exactly do we have a statistic for being 20 times more likely to die from a gun related homicide?
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#54
Posted: 12/17/2012 12:25:16 AM
If it makes you feel better I have never once nor plan on owning a gun. I just see no need for it personally, but am I going to infringe my beliefs on other people? That's one of the few things left that is great about this country.
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bill702
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#55
Posted: 12/17/2012 12:33:25 AM
Also, allbutbroke if you look more deeply into that per capita rate. Where exactly does Canada rank? Oh, that's right pretty high up on the list of developed countries, but you guys from the great north have it all figured out. 


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#56
Posted: 12/17/2012 1:01:54 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Allbutbroke:


Ah yes, violent opposition from another mediocre mind.

So did you even look at this study done by the U.N. or did you just do a quick google search to try and prove a point you're not even willing to back up on your own? It definitely didn't put a Canadian in the position to play the holier than god card, but I guess if you always only choose to google what you want to hear and copy and paste everything it doesn't really put you into a position to be taken serious in any argument.

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#57
Posted: 12/17/2012 1:19:28 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Allbutbroke:


You are not wrong, but surely to god you are more intelligent than this.  Should we ban cars because more people die in motor vehicle collisions.  Come on - use common sense - this incident is about the availability of guns to an evil, mental cold blooded killer.  It is not about the manner of accidental deaths.  Geez, when you make such comments it certainly takes away from your credibility to logically look at this situation.

That’s the point, chuckles.  Attempting to ban guns in America is moronic just as attempting to ban cars or swimming pools would be.  Should we attempt to do so anyway because it might save lives?  How would it even be done?  How would it be enforced?

Drugs are illegal.  How’s that going?  Hell, studies show that many children report it’s easier for them to get drugs than it is to get alcohol.

Like I said in the post addressed to you that you refused to respond to: none of you loudmouth anti-2A types are offering up any real solutions.  It’s just a bunch of generic emotional comments and personal insults.

 

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#58
Posted: 12/17/2012 1:22:21 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Allbutbroke:


no, people with guns kill people.  Come on - you are smarter than that.   A solution is right there but you gents are to stubborn, proud, blind, or god knows what to accept it.

A solution that’s going to prevent events like this from happening? 

Oh this I have to hear.

 

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thirdperson
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#59
Posted: 12/17/2012 3:56:31 AM
Allbutbroke is right that the U.S. has one of the highest gun-related homicide rates in the world.   Unfortunately, easy access to guns contribute to more deaths.  According to Associated Press,  U.S. has 15 of 25 worst (non-war) mass shootings.  No country is perfect, but Canada recently has its lowest gun-related homicide rate in 50 years.  Although Americans may dislike the truth,  Canadians may be more objective because they are friends with nothing to gain or lose.
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#60
Posted: 12/17/2012 7:52:52 AM
how come noone has mentioned its not just our right to bear arms for protection but also as a way for citizens to arm themselves so the government cannot create a police state.

one of the main reasons if the 2nd amendment wasso that citizens could be armed to fight the government if it ever came to that point. the government and elected officials should fear the people not the other way around. they work for us and answer to us yet most have forgotten this. if Law-abiding citizens were unable to be armed and the government could create a police state and take control over the whole country like a communist country
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#61
Posted: 12/17/2012 8:34:01 AM
Historically, Americans distrust their own government more  than people of other western countries.  Probability of U.S. becoming a fascist nation is remote.  Afterall, Americans haven't needed to violently overthrow any dictators.  Perhaps, 2nd amendment is outdated in modern era?
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#62
Posted: 12/17/2012 8:52:48 AM
QUOTE

Originally Posted by thirdperson:

Allbutbroke is right that the U.S. has one of the highest gun-related homicide rates in the world.   Unfortunately, easy access to guns contribute to more deaths.  According to Associated Press,  U.S. has 15 of 25 worst (non-war) mass shootings.  No country is perfect, but Canada recently has its lowest gun-related homicide rate in 50 years.  Although Americans may dislike the truth,  Canadians may be more objective because they are friends with nothing to gain or lose.

Well said, thanks.  Easy access is the problem but it seems willful blindness may be a bigger problem.

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#63
Posted: 12/17/2012 8:56:39 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by StraightShooter:

A solution that’s going to prevent events like this from happening? 

Oh this I have to hear.

 

Come on - grow up.  You can't prevent these things but you sure as darn can take action to reduce the opportunity.  This is not about insults and personal attacks.  It is about a safe place for people - but you can worrry about becoming a police state etc etc etc.  Good luck with that.

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#64
Posted: 12/17/2012 10:04:32 AM
3rd
rights have already begun to taken from the citizens. it all started with 9/11 and the government found their way to use fear of another attack to infringe on our rights by passing the patriot act. that opened Pandora's box and ever since more freedoms have been slowly and unknowingly taken away. there even bill that is going to be voted on that allows government to read emails of anyone without probable cause or warrant
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#65
Posted: 12/17/2012 10:08:47 AM
the coward had a mental health issue. more help needs to be available to these people and their families. this is not a gun control issue. the guns were purchased legally heeither stole them or the mother did not have them properly secured
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m57
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#66
Posted: 12/17/2012 10:39:52 AM
Yeah we should make the entire country a gun-free zone.

Look how well its working for movie theaters, shopping malls, and elementary schools.

Why do people think outlawing something makes it go away? Remember that whole prohibition thing? How did that work out?

Now excuse me while I go smoke a bowl.
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#67
Posted: 12/17/2012 10:40:42 AM

I want to address a few things that are mentioned in this thread that bear repeating...

1)  YES the pupose of the 2nd amendment was not only to allow the people to defend themselves against the evil-doers, but MORE significantly (in the eyes of the founding fathers) to guarantee that the people will have the last word if ever presented with a situation in which they wanted and/or needed to overthrow the goverment.

2)  Plenty of talk about taking the steps to get people help, or simply restrict people that may show some tendency of erratic behavior or such... I think that makes for a nice talking point, but practically impossible to actually do.  These events are highly visible in the rear-view mirror, but what can really be done in a proactive sense??  Give everybody the capacity to name names of somebody they deem to be on the edge??  Reminds me of the witch trials of the 15th century.  It simply cannot and will not happen EFFECTIVELY

3)  And maybe most importanly... I clearly think most of you missed the point to me making this thread.  My main point is that there should be NO GUN FREE ZONES.  These deranged people always hit the soft spots.  If teachers and faculty were ALLOWED to CCW in the workplace, this idiot might have got to a few people, but clearly not 26.  The bigger point is that he would not have picked a school, because it would be with a handful of adults that would be grabbing their glocks after the first few rounds were fired.

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#68
Posted: 12/17/2012 1:28:35 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by thirdperson:

Allbutbroke is right that the U.S. has one of the highest gun-related homicide rates in the world.   Unfortunately, easy access to guns contribute to more deaths.  According to Associated Press,  U.S. has 15 of 25 worst (non-war) mass shootings.  No country is perfect, but Canada recently has its lowest gun-related homicide rate in 50 years.  Although Americans may dislike the truth,  Canadians may be more objective because they are friends with nothing to gain or lose.
You're right we are on the top of that list, but let's not forget that Canada is also in the top 5 for developed countries. So even with your strict gun laws you're in the same boat. My main point was to allbutbroke and RobG was to stop just coming with quotes and stories that back your claim up without actually looking at those stories or stats. It's like a guy in jail for murdering 4 people shunning the guy that killed 16. It just makes no sense. The fact is that it's a problem in both of our countries with two very different set of laws in which neither seem to work.
I would like to see the break up of these stats a little further. I would guess that a good chunk of them are drug related which is a bigger problem in our country then yours due to the economics. 
I don't see why it's a good idea to take away our guns because of a few incidents. 
I also won't for a second believe schools should be gun free zones with possibly the exception of school police or a lock box in the principals office. 
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#69
Posted: 12/17/2012 2:05:45 PM

I think that you're all missing the point of gun control. 

It has nothing to do with you're right to own firearms, you already have that.  It has everything to do with the sale, licensing, education and use of firearms.

You require a license to drive a car, but yet you can purchase a firearm online, at a gun show, even on Craigslist with no questions asked.

In Ontario, to obtain a firearm license, you must attend & pass a Canadian Firearms Safety course for rifles & shotguns, and an additional course for restricted firearms such as handguns. You do not recieve your license until the RCMP has done a background check AND an telephone interview with your references. Our laws are very strict as to ownership, transport and especially storage of any firearm.

Canadians are not naive or holier than thou.  Many Canadians own firearms and hunt. The difference is that we have to be licensed and there are restrictions as to the weapons that are allowed.

No Canadian is allowed an Authorize to Carry (ATC) permit unless they're in law enforcement or private security.

Unfortunately the problem I see in the U.S. is that there seems to be so few restrictions as to obtaining any firearm, including millitary grade (killing machines).

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#70
Posted: 12/17/2012 8:45:44 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by IC85:

I think that you're all missing the point of gun control. 

It has nothing to do with you're right to own firearms, you already have that.  It has everything to do with the sale, licensing, education and use of firearms.

You require a license to drive a car, but yet you can purchase a firearm online, at a gun show, even on Craigslist with no questions asked.

In Ontario, to obtain a firearm license, you must attend & pass a Canadian Firearms Safety course for rifles & shotguns, and an additional course for restricted firearms such as handguns. You do not recieve your license until the RCMP has done a background check AND an telephone interview with your references. Our laws are very strict as to ownership, transport and especially storage of any firearm.

Canadians are not naive or holier than thou.  Many Canadians own firearms and hunt. The difference is that we have to be licensed and there are restrictions as to the weapons that are allowed.

No Canadian is allowed an Authorize to Carry (ATC) permit unless they're in law enforcement or private security.

Unfortunately the problem I see in the U.S. is that there seems to be so few restrictions as to obtaining any firearm, including millitary grade (killing machines).

Finally, an intelligent response. 

RobG and Allbutbroke, I think you two should take note. There were no silly stats or copy and pasted quotes. Just straight to the point and original thoughts.

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#71
Posted: 12/17/2012 10:04:32 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by bill702:

Finally, an intelligent response. 

RobG and Allbutbroke, I think you two should take note. There were no silly stats or copy and pasted quotes. Just straight to the point and original thoughts.


Yes, that was a great response.  That said, you are a complete idiot.
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#72
Posted: 12/17/2012 10:09:32 PM

The purchase of every single gun in America requires a background check and registration with the Feds.

To own an unregistered firearm in the United States is a felony, to transfer one without the use of an FFL is a felony.

Thoughtful post but inaccurate.

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#73
Posted: 12/17/2012 10:11:58 PM
Canada sucks
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#74
Posted: 12/17/2012 10:32:24 PM
QUOTE

Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:

Gun laws are a mockery why exactly?

Follow the money fellas..


Why arent they? Do you think if there are more and/or stricter gun laws that will stop people who intend on doing bad things from getting them?

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#75
Posted: 12/17/2012 10:36:05 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by searchwarrant:

The purchase of every single gun in America requires a background check and registration with the Feds.

To own an unregistered firearm in the United States is a felony, to transfer one without the use of an FFL is a felony.

Thoughtful post but inaccurate.

If a family member passes away and leaves you guns, what do you need to do? Take them to the police station to register them? Sure I could google it, but you seem to know a lot about guns.

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