When everythings a crime, everyones a criminal

Forum: Penalty Box Page 2 of 2  1 2  
Author: [Penalty Box] Topic: When everythings a crime, everyones a criminal
SteelCash PM SteelCash
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Posted: 9/18/2012 3:06:20 AM
As for your post #31, I think you're forgetting that most peoples' drug habits won't change. I don't what they legalize. I'm smart enough and I have enough self esteem that I wouldn't start snorting cocaine and shooting up with heroine. And I think most everyone else is of the same mold. Did you know that Portugal legalized heroine? Do you know what happened? The number of addicts went down by 50%. And they had a huge problem with heroine. Fear mongering is a terrible approach to the whole drug thing. If you just educate adolescents on the effects of drugs they'll make the the right decision most of the time. But we as a nation just say things like "Don't do drugs or you'll grow up to a life of crime if you don't end up dead". That's fear mongering and they know it's bullshit. It actually ENCOURAGES them to try the drug.
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SteelCash PM SteelCash
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Posted: 9/18/2012 3:07:39 AM
Didn't proofread that :(
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SALTY PM SALTY
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Posted: 9/18/2012 3:14:09 AM
Steelcash
SteelCash PM SteelCash
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Posted: 9/18/2012 3:22:35 AM
Overdoses would decrease too because these stores would have (and this could be made a law) qualified personnel that would inform the customer on recommended use amount. If he tells someone to snort no more than 10 grams of something, people will generally listen. Surely there will be overdoses here and there. This wouldn't be a solution with no faults, but when you consider the amount of lost lives soley due to prohibition, it's no contest. Drug casualties could literally decrease by 10,000%. Ask the people of Central America about this. The death toll has turned that country completely upside down. Bodies in the hundreds of thousands over the years turning up everywhere.
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SteelCash PM SteelCash
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Posted: 9/18/2012 3:46:56 AM
My apologies for not being able to come up with more recent numbers but in 2004 there were about 44,000 people in federal and state prisons for marijuana offenses so I actually committed a typo earlier. The 750K is the arrest number.

I read an article that stated that we spend about a billion a year as taxpayers to incarcerate these people. I believe these are 2009 figures, and they are from reports from the U.S. Dept. of Justice. To put that in perspective the FBI initially asked for 1.5 billion to respond to the 911 attacks.
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SteelCash PM SteelCash
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Posted: 9/18/2012 8:48:09 AM

     Please bear with me here as I'm about done ranting.  I just wanted to take a second to provide some legitimate numbers...

Police prosecuted 858,408 persons for marijuana violations in 2009, according to the Federal Bureau of Investigation’s annual Uniform Crime Report, released today. The arrest total is the second highest ever reported by the FBI, and marks a 1.3 percent increase in the number of arrests reported in 2008 (847,864).

According to the report, marijuana arrests now comprise more than one-half (approximately 52 percent) of all drug arrests reported in the United States. A decade ago, marijuana arrests comprised just 44 percent of all drug arrests.

Approximately forty-six percent of all drug prosecutions nationwide are for marijuana possession.

http://blog.norml.org/2010/09/15/incarceration-nation-marijuana-arrests-for-year-2009-near-record-high/

American taxpayers are now spending more than a billion dollars per year to incarcerate its citizens for pot. That’s according to statistics recently released by the U.S. Department of Justice’s Bureau of Justice Statistics.

According to the new BJS report, “Drug Use and Dependence, State and Federal Prisoners, 2004,” 12.7 percent of state inmates and 12.4 percent of federal inmates incarcerated for drug violations are serving time for marijuana offenses. Combining these percentages with separate U.S. Department of Justice statistics on the total number of state and federal drug prisoners suggests that there are now about 33,655 state inmates and 10,785 federal inmates behind bars for marijuana offenses. The report failed to include estimates on the percentage of inmates incarcerated in county and/or local jails for pot-related offenses.

http://leisureguy.wordpress.com/2007/02/22/1-billion-per-year-to-jail-marijuana-users/

SteelCash PM SteelCash
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Posted: 9/18/2012 9:23:49 AM

     In Canada, if you get caught with six plants and it's determined that you were growing for trafficking purposes, your minimum mandatory sentence will be twice as long (six mos.) as somebody that lures a child to watch porn or exposes himself on a playground.  If you get caught with 201 plants, you will face a harsher mandatory minimum sentence than somebody that rapes a toddler. 

     Now of course the rapist will most certainly get a longer sentence and die in prison, but this still doesn't excuse the fact that Canada actually made the minimum shorter.  In their eyes, I guess you're more of a nuisance to society if you grow marijuana than the guy that rapes a three year old child. 

     How disturbing is that?

     Source:  Cannabis Prohibition:  A War on the People

be easy PM be easy
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Posted: 9/21/2012 9:21:15 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by depeche2:



What is the distinction exactly?  If we just wiped the drug laws off the books wouldn't that be legalization and wouldn't that mean fewer laws?


well, you ought understand the legalese better then I.

When i hear decriminalization, i understand that to mean scrapping all the drug laws from the books. Often parlayed with systems that treat addiction as a health issue rather then a crime against society (imagine if we treated sugar users like we do pot smokers)

When i hear legalization, i understand that to mean even more laws and regulations, similar to the systems in place in states that allow MMJ. You need a license for producing, a license for distributing, rules on how much and how many plants one can grow, rules upon rules, which if/when they are broken, come with penalties similar to what we have today. The worst part of legalization imo is the system it enshrines as to who profits from the trade, and how much the end consumer is forced to pay

i've illustrated the math on covers before that shows that MMJ has a 100,000% mark up . Rarely do people bother to ask why this is, or who benefits. I don't see that ginormous amount of economic rent as a necessity, and it is just punitive punishment to the user forced upon them by government action.

i can grow marijuana in my garden right along with sunflowers and tomatoes and corn, so why would you suggest that the government need regulate it any differently?

around here, you buy a dozen ears of corn for 2.50. With the same space and energy that it takes to produce that corn, i can grow a lb of weed instead, yet 2,500 is cheap for a lb

2.50.00
vs
2,500.00

why is it necessary to force end users to pay such an exorbitant mark up??

and how in the world do prohibitionists or supporters of legalization not realize that all the problems surrounding drug use stem from that economic rent? If you remove the private profiteering via economic rent in the equation, you solve the problem

FWIW, i believe you can/should apply that same line of reasoning to all government action. Governments exist to control the flow of resources, so cui bono from privatized economic rent-seeking?

be easy PM be easy
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Posted: 9/21/2012 9:27:34 AM
everything is relative, so we know that the present plan of action brings about the current set of results (mass murder, overflowing prison population, empowerment to the gangs/cartels)

if you view this as a problem, there is only one solution, and it's to remove the profit side of the equation

If the government wanted to end the war on drugs, then they should be incentivizing mass production of marijuana so as to remove the profiteering, you take away the money, you take away the power from the gangs/cartels and the criminal aspect

how much worse off would society be then compared to today? THere would be less dangers, and better information, and if people still viewed 'drug' usage such as smoking grass as a problem, then they could utilize avenues to treat it for what it is, a health issue, not a friggin crime

The people that benefit from the current system sure as hell would never want to see that happen (judges, lawyers, private for profit prisons, big Pharma, the court circuit profit center ie probation officers, companys that do drug testing and sell products related, all the layers of police state that fund their pursuit of the so called criminals)
Crashdavis565 PM Crashdavis565
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Posted: 9/21/2012 12:07:23 PM
All good points, I am for instant and wide spread legalization of Marijuana.
I have not used in many years but could probably still get some within an hour and 2-3 phone calls.
I still choose not to use either way.
I-Got-5-On-It PM I-Got-5-On-It
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Posted: 9/22/2012 4:12:23 PM
would be interesting to see a Hamsterdam type experiment from The Wire
SteelCash PM SteelCash
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Posted: 9/23/2012 11:51:05 AM

     A kid, probably in his early 20's just told me he lost a friend.  His name was Curt.  He drank too much and died of alcohol poisoning.  He was 18.  His friends threw him out of the car and left him on his mother's lawn.  I guess he was discovered several hours later. 

     You watch a football game and see dozens of beer commercials.  Once every 2 hours on average somebody 21 and younger dies from alcohol use.  About 4,600 every year in the U.S.  It's my opinion that you can blame some of this on prohibition and the propaganda surrounding marijuana that people get shoved down their throats.  We all know that MJ has never killed anybody. 

     I always drank in my 20's (I could have died several times) and heavily partly because weed was illegal.  Why do something illegal right?  I assumed it was bad for you because, why question it?  I thought it was common knowledge.  I've had many good times drinking don't get me wrong, but weed is the best.  I now know it's smarter, safer, healthier, and it's a better high.  I haven't quit drinking, but I generally think alcohol sucks.  If it disappeard I wouldn't be upset at all. 

    

OnlyGod PM OnlyGod
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Posted: 11/26/2012 4:59:07 PM
Drugs are bad mmmkay ?
DoubleUp4Life PM DoubleUp4Life
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Posted: 11/26/2012 5:37:53 PM
Steel Cash is Telling the Truth
CalifDreamin PM CalifDreamin
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Posted: 11/26/2012 5:38:45 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by scalabrine:

Nice to see you actually post something sensible. I've posted on this topic many times with detailed explanation,

Part of the 'moral bankruptcy' you are referring to is the number of minorities who are locked up due to drug offenses (specifically minor ones like marijuana possession), which make up the lion's share of inmates.

Of course, people like yourself and members here choose to completely ignore this even though there are peer-reviewed books written on the topic easily available to yourself and others, in addition to what I've posted.

No mind though, this is mainly about tax dollars only because our current generation is allowing racism and racial preference to fade out consciousness (as you've alluded to in the past).

Carry on...

 

you know its hard to take anything you say seriously when every thought starts off with something like this. It really is pathetic nowadays that people still use their race as an excuse as to why they are in the place they are.

People doing hard time for marijuana smoking, get fuckin real

Mick960 PM Mick960
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Posted: 11/26/2012 6:36:12 PM
Ha Ha Ha. Papa Bush was the last drug free president. And that's only because Barbara wouldn't tolerate it. You can use all the drugs you want. Just don't be stupid getting caught and don't kill people dealing it. Or, become a president
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