When everythings a crime, everyones a criminal

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Author: [Penalty Box] Topic: When everythings a crime, everyones a criminal
be easy PM be easy
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Posted: 9/16/2012 10:38:50 AM
link

There are more than 218,000 inmates locked in the teeming network of federal and privately-run prisons. About 48% are there for drug offenses, according to the GAO's analysis.




The war on drugs is bankrupting this country, fiscally and morally. At least the "healthcare" industries are making record profits
scalabrine PM scalabrine
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Posted: 9/16/2012 11:13:45 AM
Nice to see you actually post something sensible. I've posted on this topic many times with detailed explanation,

Part of the 'moral bankruptcy' you are referring to is the number of minorities who are locked up due to drug offenses (specifically minor ones like marijuana possession), which make up the lion's share of inmates.

Of course, people like yourself and members here choose to completely ignore this even though there are peer-reviewed books written on the topic easily available to yourself and others, in addition to what I've posted.

No mind though, this is mainly about tax dollars only because our current generation is allowing racism and racial preference to fade out consciousness (as you've alluded to in the past).

Carry on...
Randisist PM Randisist
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Posted: 9/16/2012 12:33:22 PM
Scab,

Just for you... One of my favorite songs of all time. Enjoy.
DiverRon PM DiverRon
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Posted: 9/16/2012 1:59:10 PM
You can add moonshining to this list too.
Some of you might have seen a tv series Moonshing recently.
ATF has a major hard on chasing these guys down and they
do "MAJOR TIME"! This really just comes down to a licensing
and taxing issue and when they catch these guys what the
goverment really should do is make it a mandatory payment issue
(like the IRS) instead of locking them up for a major prison sentence! An old law enforcement buddy of my brothers actually told my brother you would never believe how many cops use pot
and could actually be behind bars.
scalabrine PM scalabrine
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Posted: 9/16/2012 3:03:35 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Slovak:

Scalabrine, you know damn well that the majority of the 48%
of drug related inmates are not in prison just for smoking marijuana. In fact there are very few people that get locked up in prison just for getting caught smoking a joint.

This country has to have some type of punishment for drug use/selling, otherwise we would live in complete anarchy and chaos.

What?

48% are there for DRUG RELATED OFFENSES. 

You would like these statistics to feed into your narrative that these individuals are perpetual crime committers with long offense sheets but the fact is, they are in prison solely for a drug related offense.

It's pretty obtuse of you to suggest otherwise when the OP himself (someone who is not on my side of the opinion concerning this matter), posted a link providing that exact detail.
scalabrine PM scalabrine
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Posted: 9/16/2012 10:14:40 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Slovak:

Scalabrine, you are attempting to try and use this number to your advantage by saying that the minorities are being unjustly locked up for using marijuana and that IS NOT that case here.

The majority of that 48%  that are imprisoned are there for selling and distributing drugs, not for the white police force busting down their doors arresting them for passing a joint around while enjoying  a Friday night of Madden 2013.

For the last time already, quit making excuses for the criminals.

You tried to pull this same garbage with that goofus with the Butcher's knife that got gunned down in New York by saying that he was just minding his business smoking a joint and not bothering anyone.

According to you, minorities that use drugs and commit crimes at will and then like to run from the police while putting innocent civilians lives in jeopardy should be treated with kid gloves when they are finally caught.







You're a criminal Slovak. You've possessed marijuana and simply didn't get caught. That makes you no less a criminal. You simply weren't caught and charged. You are in the same boat as those I'm allegedly making excuses for.

And for the millionth time, as I've posted here, this IS ABOUT a militant police state bearing down on minority communities, both black and hispanic, and arresting them en masse even though statistics show whites and blacks/hispanics use and possess drugs at the same rate.

In absolute terms, given that Blacks are only 12% of the population, there should be FAR MORE whites in prison just based on the sheer numbers of whites in America of drug-possessing age.

Instead, you have a massive Jim Crow-esque system which specifically targets minorities INSTEAD of whites and yes it is typically white cops doing the arresting.

Please, have an informed opinion instead of simply shooting from the hip about 'making excuses' because the only unverified excuses in this thread are from your posts whether you like to believe it or not.

And your last paragraph is asinine and untrue and typical of the misleading garbage you spew here. I have never said or implied that. I have said the police bullet and death shots need not be used in many cases in an apprehension.
scalabrine PM scalabrine
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Posted: 9/16/2012 10:15:37 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Slovak:



Well my friend, if this small percentage of the U.S. population would try to better themselves rather than repeatedly break the laws that were created to protect them and everyone else, then the Stereotypes and Racial profiling would fade away. The statistics don't lie.

Preaching to white people that they need to start treating minorities better, isn't starting at the root of the problem. If you want to eliminate the aftermath, you have to eliminate the problem first.

Go find a nice Ghetto and ride your donkey down the street with megaphone in hand and preach to those people and tell them the steps that they should be taking to establish themselves as proper citizens in this country. Spewing your crap here about how tough they have it and how bad they are treated isn't going to make 1 single ounce of difference.

The working man doesn't get a choice whether or not they want to take care of the non working man, they are forced to. However, the non working man does have a choice if they need to accept it.



You don't even know what the statistics are concerning the drug war you fool. 

You've demonstrated that here.
Crashdavis565 PM Crashdavis565
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Posted: 9/17/2012 12:36:14 AM
I am for the legalization of all drugs
be easy PM be easy
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Posted: 9/17/2012 12:38:45 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Slovak:

You came out insinuating that the 48% of the people in prison for drug related charges were there for smoking pot, and I am the fool?

Everything that you preach here is not only asinine but completely full of your opinions first and facts second.





48% are there for drug related offenses, so no matter how you want to slice it, thems the facts

you took Scals comment out of context, because i'm certain he knows that NOBODY is in fed prison for marijuana possession, however his comment was in reply to my remark about the moral bankruptcy of society that has ensued because of this inhumane approach to this so called "problem"
be easy PM be easy
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Posted: 9/17/2012 12:40:41 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Crashdavis565:

I am for the legalization of all drugs


I am for the decriminalization of drugs

legalization of all drugs means more laws, which means more punishments, which sounds like more of the same of what we already have, which would be an even bigger problem. no thanks
metalbill PM metalbill
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Posted: 9/17/2012 12:57:39 AM
we live in a prison nation. our for fathers fought, bled and died so we could live a 'free' life, it's time we fight back again

don't like the direction we are headed in, society is fucked
misfit_aka PM misfit_aka
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Posted: 9/17/2012 2:08:46 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Slovak:



Well my friend, if this small percentage of the U.S. population would try to better themselves rather than repeatedly break the laws that were created to protect them and everyone else, then the Stereotypes and Racial profiling would fade away. The statistics don't lie.

Preaching to white people that they need to start treating minorities better, isn't starting at the root of the problem. If you want to eliminate the aftermath, you have to eliminate the problem first.

Go find a nice Ghetto and ride your donkey down the street with megaphone in hand and preach to those people and tell them the steps that they should be taking to establish themselves as proper citizens in this country. Spewing your crap here about how tough they have it and how bad they are treated isn't going to make 1 single ounce of difference.

The working man doesn't get a choice whether or not they want to take care of the non working man, they are forced to. However, the non working man does have a choice if they need to accept it.




you sound like a douche bag...what a weak behind argument..how many laws did you break today? and sorry bro, but its not that simple...its takes time for a culture to change...especially when there have been laws and economic policies designed to ensnare the ppl of that culture for CENTURIES (and yes, even to this day)...
SteelCash PM SteelCash
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Posted: 9/17/2012 10:02:01 AM
Slovak... you are wrong about so many things.  Will post later.
SteelCash PM SteelCash
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Posted: 9/17/2012 11:12:08 AM

In fact there are very few people that get locked up in prison just for getting caught smoking a joint.

Wrong... we incarcerate about 750,000 people every year for mere possession of marijuana.

This country has to have some type of punishment for drug use/selling, otherwise we would live in complete anarchy and chaos.

Wrong... this thought process is why we keep trying to do the same thing over and over again with prohibition even though it's been a complete failure.  Portugal has legalized everything and crime has gone down.  They have chosen to spend money educating people and treating people instead of throwing them in jail, which does no good.  Heroine addicts have decreased by 50% and drug use has stayed about the same. 

The chief of police in Zurich, Switzerland was fearing for his life and the community when the gov't decided to start a program that basically legalized heroine.  Since then he has stated that the transformation of the city is nothing short of amazing, and the community is in fantastic shape.  He said he can't believe how wonderful it is to live there.  Crime is down, and drug addiction has dropped significantly. 

SteelCash PM SteelCash
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Posted: 9/17/2012 11:24:09 AM

This country has to have some type of punishment for drug use/selling

Wrong... Using drugs should not be a crime.  We as citizens should be able to put into our bodies what we please and criminalizing drug use is a violation of our rights.  If I choose to smoke a joint I'm breaking the law but my neighbor can buy enough alcohol at the corner store to kill ten men.  Can we say hypocrisy?  Drug use doesn't hurt anybody except maybe the user.  That's personal choice and should not be a crime.  I'm not a violent criminal when I smoke a bowl or light up a crack pipe (I don't do crack).  I'm not harming others yet the taxpayers are going to pay thousands when I enter the judicial system.  Not only that, I'm going to lose my job, my family is going to struggle, and I might end up being a hardened criminal after spending time behind bars.  This thought process is senseless, it weakens the entire community, costs thousands of dollars, and helps nobody.     

SteelCash PM SteelCash
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Posted: 9/17/2012 11:37:34 AM

Well my friend, if this small percentage of the U.S. population would try to better themselves rather than repeatedly break the laws that were created to protect them and everyone else, then the Stereotypes and Racial profiling would fade away. The statistics don't lie.

Wrong... let's talk statistics.  Statistics say that blacks make up about 15-20% of the drug users, yet 40% of the drug related prisoners are blacks.  How does that work?  It is a fact that blacks are incarcerated at a higher rate than whites, and yet most drugs users are white.  Blacks are targeted more and receive harsher sentences.  Again, these are facts.  What good does it do to break up a family because someone lit up a joint?  It doesn't do any good. 

We don't need laws to protect us from ourselves.  That's not what the gov't is there for.  I don't need a babysitter for my well being.  Laws that keep someone from harming me need to be in place, but if someone snorts cocaine in the privacy of his home, he is not hurting me. 

Bettering themselves?  Really?  Ted Turner is worth about 2.2 Billion and he smokes every day.  Should he better himself?  Drug use is a personal choice and many millions do it and are law abiding citizens with jobs and families and white picket fences.  The addicts need help, not imprisonment.  This accomplishes nothing and is in fact detrimental to fixing the problem.

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Posted: 9/17/2012 11:45:55 AM

Prohibition Is A Destructive Force In Inner City Communities

Inner city communities suffer most from both the problem of drug abuse and the consequences of drug prohibition.

Although the rates of drug use among white and non-white Americans are similar, African Americans and other racial minorities are arrested and imprisoned at higher rates. For example, according to government estimates only 12 percent of drug users are black, but nearly 40 percent of those arrested for drug offenses are black. Nationwide, one-quarter of all young African American men are under some form of criminal justice supervision, mostly for drug offenses. This phenomenon has had a devastating social impact in minority communities. Moreover, the abuse of drugs, including alcohol, has more dire consequences in impoverished communities where good treatment programs are least available.

http://www.aclu.org/drug-law-reform/against-drug-prohibition

SteelCash PM SteelCash
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Posted: 9/17/2012 11:59:36 AM

You came out insinuating that the 48% of the people in prison for drug related charges were there for smoking pot, and I am the fool?

Yes you are the fool because this is actually true.  Marijuana is the most used illicit drug in the world.  Therefore, there are a lot of people going to prison for it.  It doesn't make sense, but it's true.

http://www.skeptically.org/recdrugs/id8.html

SteelCash PM SteelCash
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Posted: 9/17/2012 12:12:36 PM

The working man doesn't get a choice whether or not they want to take care of the non working man, they are forced to. However, the non working man does have a choice if they need to accept it.

You seem to think that the people that don't have jobs sit around and do drugs all day and suck up the welfare that we pay for.  While there surely are deadbeats in this society, there are also many that do not do drugs that are trying to find work.  This country is in poor shape and the jobs just aren't there.  Many people can't find work and one thing this country doesn't need is people like you pointing fingers and saying "You're a deadbeat... you're probably doing drugs... and I'm better than you."  That said, I don't even know if there is a correlation between drug use and unemployment.  That's a whole different discussion and really not relevant to this thread anyways.

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Posted: 9/17/2012 12:24:00 PM

     Please rethink things and look at things from a different perspective.  Throwing nonviolent drug users in jail is not the answer and accomplishes nothing.  The jails and prisons are running our states into bankruptcy, and the inmates are worse off after they get out.  The taxpayers are paying billions for harmless people to go to prison.  Who benefits?  Nobody.  Except for the privatized prisons.  That's a whole different discussion and I need to go.

Peace

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Posted: 9/17/2012 12:47:24 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by SteelCash:

This country has to have some type of punishment for drug use/selling

Wrong... Using drugs should not be a crime.  We as citizens should be able to put into our bodies what we please and criminalizing drug use is a violation of our rights.  If I choose to smoke a joint I'm breaking the law but my neighbor can buy enough alcohol at the corner store to kill ten men.  Can we say hypocrisy?  Drug use doesn't hurt anybody except maybe the user.  That's personal choice and should not be a crime.  I'm not a violent criminal when I smoke a bowl or light up a crack pipe (I don't do crack).  I'm not harming others yet the taxpayers are going to pay thousands when I enter the judicial system.  Not only that, I'm going to lose my job, my family is going to struggle, and I might end up being a hardened criminal after spending time behind bars.  This thought process is senseless, it weakens the entire community, costs thousands of dollars, and helps nobody.     


Using drugs should not be a crime??? What kind of drugs are we talking about though??? Why ais it that most weed heads are weird, Paranoid, Conspiracy theorists, Thiefs and youtube junkies?? Because of the affect of drugs. Drugs are not good, As happy as that may sound and as un hip hop as that may sound, It's the truth. 

If you don't want to go to jail, Get off the weed and cocaine son, Simple. Law abiding citizens may get drunk occasionally but they sure as hell don't spend their Friday nights smoking a spliff whilst bopping their heads to Bobby Marley. 


bill702 PM bill702
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Posted: 9/17/2012 1:50:08 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by SteelCash:

You came out insinuating that the 48% of the people in prison for drug related charges were there for smoking pot, and I am the fool?

Yes you are the fool because this is actually true.  Marijuana is the most used illicit drug in the world.  Therefore, there are a lot of people going to prison for it.  It doesn't make sense, but it's true.

http://www.skeptically.org/recdrugs/id8.html

So you go to federal prison for possession? I'm not talking with the intent to sell or anything, but just having a joint on you gets you sent to prison on a first time offense?
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Posted: 9/17/2012 2:02:59 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by be easy:



I am for the decriminalization of drugs

legalization of all drugs means more laws, which means more punishments, which sounds like more of the same of what we already have, which would be an even bigger problem. no thanks


What is the distinction exactly?  If we just wiped the drug laws off the books wouldn't that be legalization and wouldn't that mean fewer laws?
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Posted: 9/18/2012 2:12:05 AM
SwishSwish... drunks get drunk and kill about ten to fifteen thousand people every year just in the U.S. Men, women, and children. No big deal though I guess. Alcohol consumption alone kills another 85 to 100 thousand. Drunks are loud and obnoxious and often violent and out of control. Cannabis smokers are very chill, in control, not aggressive in the least, and not loud. The negative impact alcohol has on society is a thousand fold larger than that of cannabis. If you argue this you're an idiot because it's a fact. Don't even try to compare the two. It's already clear to me that you have no idea what you're talking about.
All the cannabis smokers I know are very normal people. I really can't speak about the people you know or the people you hang with. I like to debate with facts BTW. It's also a fact that some people (professionals that research this topic for a living) consider alcohol to be the worst drug in the world because of it's volume in which it is consumed and the damage it does.
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SteelCash PM SteelCash
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Posted: 9/18/2012 2:49:13 AM
Slovak... I don't think there would be any dealers if prohibition ended. They wouldn't be competitive, and after all, there are no dealers selling Budweiser on the streets. One of the huge benefits of ending prohibition would be the end of dealers selling to our kids. Studies have unequivocally shown that adolescents have an easier time getting their hands on weed than they do alcohol. They need ID to get alcohol and of course they don't have proper ID.

As for prescription drugs, I honestly don't know what to say on that. Very good question you brought up there. Pharmaceuticals would love to see their drugs sold everywhere but... I don't know. Gotta give that some thought and do some research. The heroine and other stuff we could sell in select stores. With the extra tax money the addicts could get quality (and free) counseling and there are some hallucinogens (Iboga just to name one) that have proven to be extremely successful in the treatment of heroine addiction. But of course, that's illegal too.

With the stores selling the drugs, they're sure to be pure, and people sharing dirty needles would be a thing of the past. All the stores would have clean needles. This is a huge problem too. There are so many people that share needles and end up HIV positive. This would end that. These people are human beings and they made some bad decisions but they don't want to be addicts. They need help and if given a second chance many of them would make the most of it. Throwing them in jail does nothing for anyone except the people that invested in that prison. Isn't it fucked up that people make money when people go to jail? Privatized prisons... who the darn came up with that concept?
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