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Author: [General Discussion] Topic: If you're a Republican... What is your stance on abortion?
canovsp
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#51
Posted: 8/26/2012 10:22:09 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by scalabrine:


Are you serious with this last paragraph?

Do you honestly believe that if the capital gains tax is reduced to zero, or reduced significantly for that matter, which Paul Ryan has openly stated would be his platform, that there will be more income equality and the middle class with strengthen and flourish as both Romney and Ryan keep regurgitating?

Mitt's opponents want his tax returns released  to highlight the absurdly low capital gains rate and how someone of his net worth pays a fraction of the effective rate working class individual does. That isn't even touching on the tax havens and other loopholes Mitt's millions were stored in and through and that he clearly is shielding from the public view.

That has EVERYTHING to do with the economy and tax reform.

And Mitt isn't putting the majority of his money to use. He's hoarding it. For all the living millionaires and billionaires doing the same (and I can assure you 99.99% are), that translates into billions of dollars of net worth being held hostage through a tax code that increasingly favors the super-wealthy and will only continue to do so with worsening results with this man as President.

Again, those are the reasons people want his returns released. We don't care so much about his net worth as we do American tax policy where millionaire's and billionaires effective rates that are embarrassingly low in comparison to the average American.

That is NOT a distraction.

I think most people will agree to get rid of all of the loopholes. It should be simple: If an individual/company makes X amount of dollars then that individual/company pays X%. Right now the tax codes is the size of a phone book. There would still be differences between the fed govt rates and state and local rates but we can save that argument for another day.

Once again, you mention Romney not putting the majority of his money to use. I don't care what an individual decides to do with his money. If the govt doesn't cut spending it doesn't matter how much you tax the rich. It will never be enough (look at the threads in the Politics Forum: Scranton, Stockton, etc). That is why we need a budget.
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#52
Posted: 8/26/2012 10:55:30 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Henry-Lilly:

I don't vote for a party and always side with the lesser of the two evils.  Regarding abortion I support the right to choose.  What's confusing about many Republicans is that they are pro-life and yet pro-death penalty at the same time.  How does that make any friggin sense? 
It jives with the small goverment line, they want it small enough to fit between a womans leg.
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#53
Posted: 8/26/2012 12:20:05 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by canovsp:


I think most people will agree to get rid of all of the loopholes. It should be simple: If an individual/company makes X amount of dollars then that individual/company pays X%. Right now the tax codes is the size of a phone book. There would still be differences between the fed govt rates and state and local rates but we can save that argument for another day.

Once again, you mention Romney not putting the majority of his money to use. I don't care what an individual decides to do with his money. If the govt doesn't cut spending it doesn't matter how much you tax the rich. It will never be enough (look at the threads in the Politics Forum: Scranton, Stockton, etc). That is why we need a budget.
So you want a flat tax?

You do know that the complexity in the tax code you are speaking of has virtually nothing to do with the marginal tax rates (which you are implying would simplify the tax code) and everything to do with what is taxable income. And that is where Mitt and his tax preparer are experts.

That is why you always here the GOP crowing about flat tax rates. Because they know people don't understand that the marginal tax rates are not the problem and getting rid of those rates will enormously benefit the corporations and the super-rich (while leaving the enormous loopholes from which they benefit).

I'm for getting rid of the loopholes. But a flat tax is most certainly not the answer.
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canovsp
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#54
Posted: 8/26/2012 2:26:44 PM
Scal:

I would love a flat tax because it simplifies everything. I would love to go into it if you want me to.

I think the same people/politicians who want to raise taxes on the rich are the same people/politicians who don't want to simplify the tax code. The reason I say that is because if a politician here in the U.S. said, as the new French Pres said, we are going to raise everyone's taxes to X amount (75% in France) then that politician wouldn't last long in politics. If that politician keeps the message vague and just uses terms like "Pay their fair share" he sounds like he wants to do something without actually doing anything.

Say you are elected President tomorrow. Where would President Scalabrine set those rates? 

For example:
People/Companies making over $10M/yr pay this...
People/Companies making over $1M/yr pay this...
People/Companies making over $100K/yr pay this...
People/Companies making over $50K/yr pay this...

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#55
Posted: 8/26/2012 3:54:08 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by scalabrine:


Really? So the fact that a man with a net worth of a quarter billion dollars paid a lower effective tax rate, over potentially a ten year span or more, using things like tax havens and 'carried interest' on his filings, legal or otherwise, in comparison to the average middle-class voter who paid a higher average effective rate won't have an effect on the country, particularly who one votes or doesn't do so because of it?

Under Paul Ryan's capital gains tax reform plan, Romney would pay close to a ZERO effective rate! 

That's merely a 'distraction' for an informed voter when your potential prospective president, who is a quarter billionaire, pays a lower effective tax rate than you and will have no qualms about reforming tax codes to make things even better for him and his super-wealthy cronies????


So a rich guy that wants to keep his money is worse than a man who has no business experience, other than being a lawyer/politician, has run this country further into debt, lied about pulling troops out of the middle east and increasing jobs, might not have a legit birth certificate or ssn, and only got the job because hes black? Weird......

http://fullmetalpatriotblog.com/2012/02/bush-vs-obama-unemployment-rates-and-annual-deficits/

If Obama aint rich or using taxpayer money for things, how did Michelle enjoy a $470,000 trip to Spain?

Please explain?
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#56
Posted: 8/26/2012 4:06:08 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by TRAIN69:



So a rich guy that wants to keep his money is worse than a man who has no business experience, other than being a lawyer/politician, has run this country further into debt, lied about pulling troops out of the middle east and increasing jobs, might not have a legit birth certificate or ssn, and only got the job because hes black? Weird......

http://fullmetalpatriotblog.com/2012/02/bush-vs-obama-unemployment-rates-and-annual-deficits/

If Obama aint rich or using taxpayer money for things, how did Michelle enjoy a $470,000 trip to Spain?

Please explain?
There has been only one pres in my lifetime who has not run up debt, why do you think this one should be different.Last i saw the war in Iraq has all but been declared over.Oh no Train not you with the birther nonsenseC'mon football!!
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#57
Posted: 8/26/2012 4:18:04 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by TRAIN69:



So a rich guy that wants to keep his money is worse than a man who has no business experience, other than being a lawyer/politician, has run this country further into debt, lied about pulling troops out of the middle east and increasing jobs, might not have a legit birth certificate or ssn, and only got the job because hes black? Weird......

http://fullmetalpatriotblog.com/2012/02/bush-vs-obama-unemployment-rates-and-annual-deficits/

If Obama aint rich or using taxpayer money for things, how did Michelle enjoy a $470,000 trip to Spain?

Please explain?

To say that he only got elected because he's black is asinine. George W played a bigger role than Obama's skin color. 

The Pentagon estimates that flight costs alone for a trip like that is $200,000. Then there's expenses for the Secret Service and the flight crew while they're in Spain. 

 
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#58
Posted: 8/26/2012 4:25:07 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by I_Need_A_Detox:


To say that he only got elected because he's black is asinine. George W played a bigger role than Obama's skin color. 

The Pentagon estimates that flight costs alone for a trip like that is $200,000. Then there's expenses for the Secret Service and the flight crew while they're in Spain. 

 


He wouldnt have even been a nominee if not black and thats a fact. So the flight cost $200,000. How many people in america went hungry or slept outside while she went on vacation?


What else you got?
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#59
Posted: 8/26/2012 4:25:54 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Biscuiteater1:

There has been only one pres in my lifetime who has not run up debt, why do you think this one should be different.Last i saw the war in Iraq has all but been declared over.Oh no Train not you with the birther nonsenseC'mon football!!


So it can be done!

I agree with c'mon football
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#60
Posted: 8/26/2012 4:32:53 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by TRAIN69:



So it can be done!

I agree with c'mon football
Well he did agree with a 5 - 1 cut to revenue deal, something i doubt no other dem pres would have agreed to, whaa haapened?
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#61
Posted: 8/26/2012 4:33:18 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by canovsp:

Scal:

I would love a flat tax because it simplifies everything. I would love to go into it if you want me to.

I think the same people/politicians who want to raise taxes on the rich are the same people/politicians who don't want to simplify the tax code. The reason I say that is because if a politician here in the U.S. said, as the new French Pres said, we are going to raise everyone's taxes to X amount (75% in France) then that politician wouldn't last long in politics. If that politician keeps the message vague and just uses terms like "Pay their fair share" he sounds like he wants to do something without actually doing anything.

Say you are elected President tomorrow. Where would President Scalabrine set those rates? 

For example:
People/Companies making over $10M/yr pay this...
People/Companies making over $1M/yr pay this...
People/Companies making over $100K/yr pay this...
People/Companies making over $50K/yr pay this...


I know you know that the French President Hollande did not want to raise the tax rate to 75% on everyone. He wanted to raise it to 75% on all income earned over $1.24 million euros which is again, a marginal tax rate making up for a floundering classes below the rich and super-wealthy. 

While that would be excessive in my eyes, I also know you have seen the graphs that have shown the highest tax brackets in America are currently among the lowest in history. I would have no problem increasing the 35% bracket to 50% and I would also have no problem increasing the capital gains tax to 35%.

The effective corporate tax rate needs to be raised significantly as well by eliminating loopholes and the massive amounts of money untaxed offshore. This country should not be held hostage by big corporations threatening to layoff masses because the government wants to increase their taxes, which is also among the lowest tax rates in history. The economy is sputtering precisely because big corporations are refusing to hire and increase wages that merely keep up with inflation for the middle classes, and because we have a dollar that continually loses purchasing power which causes the government to borrow excessively due to a declining tax base, leaving less disposable income for consumers resulting in a nervous populace afraid to do anything but save (which in theory is a very good thing - saving - but not for capitalism which demands spending and expansion).
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#62
Posted: 8/26/2012 4:36:15 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by TRAIN69:



So a rich guy that wants to keep his money is worse than a man who has no business experience, other than being a lawyer/politician, has run this country further into debt, lied about pulling troops out of the middle east and increasing jobs, might not have a legit birth certificate or ssn, and only got the job because hes black? Weird......

http://fullmetalpatriotblog.com/2012/02/bush-vs-obama-unemployment-rates-and-annual-deficits/

If Obama aint rich or using taxpayer money for things, how did Michelle enjoy a $470,000 trip to Spain?

Please explain?
Birthers...

Before we talk about Michele's Spain trip for $470K, let's talk about Laura Bush's fine china purchase for $550K two weeks before she left the White House. What a nice present for the voters who elected her husband...


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#63
Posted: 8/26/2012 4:36:57 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by TRAIN69:



He wouldnt have even been a nominee if not black and thats a fact. So the flight cost $200,000. How many people in america went hungry or slept outside while she went on vacation?


What else you got?

So you think the First Lady of The US can't go to another country because people are hungry and sleeping outside? 

How is it a fact that he wouldn't have been a nominee if he was white? Do you know what a fact is? 
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#64
Posted: 8/26/2012 4:39:02 PM
scal was aborted.

He survived


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#65
Posted: 8/26/2012 4:53:52 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by scalabrine:

Birthers...

Before we talk about Michele's Spain trip for $470K, let's talk about Laura Bush's fine china purchase for $550K two weeks before she left the White House. What a nice present for the voters who elected her husband...






If you read your own link you would have seen that the fine china purchased was funded by the White House Historical Association, not tax payers money. http://www.whha.org/whha_about/about.html







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#66
Posted: 8/26/2012 5:20:06 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by scalabrine:

Birthers...

Before we talk about Michele's Spain trip for $470K, let's talk about Laura Bush's fine china purchase for $550K two weeks before she left the White House. What a nice present for the voters who elected her husband...




Why are you focusing on the wrong details? Thought we were talking about Obama and the present. Thats what people who are defeated do.....misdirection.

Nice try kid.
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#67
Posted: 8/26/2012 5:23:41 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by I_Need_A_Detox:


So you think the First Lady of The US can't go to another country because people are hungry and sleeping outside? 

How is it a fact that he wouldn't have been a nominee if he was white? Do you know what a fact is? 


If her kids needed to eat would she have spent $200,000 on a trip? She and Obama are the biggest "role models" in the United States. Doesnt sit well with people that dont have a home or job that she is spending tas dollars to go shopping.....

A)He was the rep from Illinois.  B) If he was white he would have never been given a second look. Yes, thats a fact.
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#68
Posted: 8/26/2012 6:14:58 PM
Do you honestly believe that if the capital gains tax is reduced to zero, or reduced significantly for that matter, which Paul Ryan has openly stated would be his platform, that there will be more income equality and the middle class with strengthen and flourish as both Romney and Ryan keep regurgitating?


I would post the GDP & federal revenue gains, job & median family income growth data for after Clinton signed the 1997 tax cut bill which cut Federal Capital Gains taxes, but what would be the point?
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#69
Posted: 8/27/2012 8:27:50 PM

there is no need for ANY income tax.  the country did fine for 150 years without it, until that socialist perv wilson got the country into a world war it should have stayed out of, then gave the country an income tax, then gave the country the federal reserve.

all of this lead DIRECTLY to the rise of hitler, and thus world war 2, and all future wars involving this country.

get rid of the federal reserve and the income tax and stay out of all wars--there, just fixed this countries finances.

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#70
Posted: 8/27/2012 9:37:50 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by 14daroad:

Do you honestly believe that if the capital gains tax is reduced to zero, or reduced significantly for that matter, which Paul Ryan has openly stated would be his platform, that there will be more income equality and the middle class with strengthen and flourish as both Romney and Ryan keep regurgitating?


I would post the GDP & federal revenue gains, job & median family income growth data for after Clinton signed the 1997 tax cut bill which cut Federal Capital Gains taxes, but what would be the point?



Actually, the picture is more complex than you choose to present, if you delve deeper. The dot com bubble was certainly a large, if not the, reason for the GDP and federal revenue gains during this short explosion from 1997-2000.

http://www.cepr.net/index.php/blogs/beat-the-press/the-stock-bubble-created-the-budget-surplus-not-bill-clintons-tax-and-spending-policies

To ascribe those gains as a direct result of tax cuts and to ignore the significant and prominent effect of the dot com bubble and other factors is misleading. It's certainly more nuanced than:

tax cuts= increased GDP/increased Fed revenues/more jobs/increased income/ greater wealth for everybody.

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#71
Posted: 8/27/2012 10:30:44 PM

The Most Dangerous Place for an African-American is in the Womb. 

 But scalabrine doesn't care about that, he'd rather rant about a baker in Sweden who made a cake that resembled a black woman.

 "Don't bake what might possibly be perceived to be a racially insensitive cake, but by all means kill thousands more of black babies!" - scalabrine

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#72
Posted: 8/28/2012 9:21:59 AM

scalabrine- are you serious? raising tax to 50%? So someone making 1 million gets half of it taken? haha wow what a joke. All the business owners would do is lay off a couple people maybe 10 to cover for that. How would that be good for the economy? Unemployment would go to 15-20%. I do agree with the capital gains to 35%. But it would take motivation away from people, hell I would want to make 999,999 not over one million. I think it should be 35%. Lets be honest what is the gov going to do with this money and is it even enough to touch the deficit? I dont think so. Tell Obama not to spend 5 trillion again for all these bullshit shovel ready jobs that lasted 2 months and not those same people are unemployed again

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#73
Posted: 8/28/2012 9:23:00 AM
now*
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#74
Posted: 8/28/2012 9:48:58 AM
I think it is my fault a thread about abortion turned into fiscal policies but there's no turning back now. I would rather talk about fiscal issues than social issues.

Remember, the tax rates we are talking about right now are at the federal level. It gets even higher when we bring in state and local governments. If Scal had his wish someone making $1million dollars would have 50% of his/her income taken by Washington. Which leaves that individual with $500K. If that person lives in a state like New York or California they will probably have another 10% to 20% taken. When you add the local taxes that would probably leave that individual with around $400K. Add everything up and now that individual takes home only 40% of what he/she originally made.

I know if I was a millionaire in this scenario I would be less motivated to work hard and take chances with my money.
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#75
Posted: 8/28/2012 10:34:05 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZijLQGH1v0
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