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Author:	[General Discussion] Topic: Can someone tell me how affrimative action is not racist
EazyFBaby	RSI View Space \| Friends \| Playbook \|
Covers Rehab Joined: Nov 2010 Posts: 2305 Location: United States	#26 Posted: 5/22/2012 6:02:46 PM Affirmative action refers to policies that take factors including "race, color, religion, gender, sexual orientation or national origin"^[1] into consideration in order to benefit an underrepresented group "in areas of employment, education, and business",^[2] usually justified as countering the effects of a history of discrimination. ... Gotta love that definition right there
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EazyFBaby	RSI View Space \| Friends \| Playbook \|
Covers Rehab Joined: Nov 2010 Posts: 2305 Location: United States	#27 Posted: 5/22/2012 6:04:29 PM QUOTE Originally Posted by HutchEmAll: Affirmative Action is not racist. It requires that companies make a conscious effort to recruit QUALIFIED women and minorities. It also means that organizations should try to remove barriers that can limit personal and professional development of women and minorities. I've hired thousands of people....not once have I ever chose a women or a minority who wasn't qualified over a white person who was. So there you go, I'm glad you don't take race into account, but unfortunately some do
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EazyFBaby	RSI View Space \| Friends \| Playbook \|
Covers Rehab Joined: Nov 2010 Posts: 2305 Location: United States	#28 Posted: 5/22/2012 6:07:48 PM The problem is that this concept was developed when racism was more relevant than it is now, it doesn't need to be enforced in today's day and age
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14daroad	View Space \| Blog \| Friends \| Playbook \|
Captain Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 7777 Location: Virginia	#29 Posted: 5/22/2012 6:18:33 PM QUOTE Originally Posted by HutchEmAll: This is not affirmative action, dope. You better tell that to the US Supreme court, dope
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14daroad	View Space \| Blog \| Friends \| Playbook \|
Captain Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 7777 Location: Virginia	#30 Posted: 5/22/2012 6:19:21 PM QUOTE Originally Posted by HutchEmAll: I have to borrow from vanzack. You are dumb. I'm not the one making stupid comments to people who are more educated, intelligent, and informed than me. Dope.
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14daroad	View Space \| Blog \| Friends \| Playbook \|
Captain Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 7777 Location: Virginia	#31 Posted: 5/22/2012 6:22:06 PM QUOTE Originally Posted by HutchEmAll: This is a complicated debate with many tentacles. But adding points onto a score for minorities doesn't constitute affirmative action in its purest sense. That's called preferential treatment. Affirmative action, as practiced in the real world, is preferential treatment. For example: The U.S. Supreme Court approved race- conscious college admissions, reaffirming a 25-year-old precedent and ensuring that hundreds of top universities can continue using affirmative action to bolster black and Hispanic enrolment. A divided court upheld an affirmative action program at the University of Michigan's law school while striking down a separate undergraduate policy. The decision was a rebuff to the Bush administration, which had called both programs a ``quota.''
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D_Unit	View Space \| Blog \| Friends \| Playbook \|
Veteran Joined: Nov 2007 Posts: 2642 Location: Texas	#32 Posted: 5/22/2012 9:46:04 PM QUOTE Originally Posted by ClubDirt: you are so far off on just about every subject. that's not what it presumes. that's what racists like you presume and because moron racists like you presume that, AA was initiated to give the victims of racism a level playing field. So are you saying test scores are racists too? of course you would think that. You will seek anyway to find racism to justify your own theology. This is why racism will never die, it will always be in the eye of the beholder. Raise your consciousness my brother..
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ClubDirt	View Space \| Blog \| Friends \| Playbook \|
MVP Joined: May 2003 Posts: 16928 Location: United States	#33 Posted: 5/22/2012 9:57:04 PM QUOTE Originally Posted by D_Unit: So are you saying test scores are racists too? of course you would think that. You will seek anyway to find racism to justify your own theology. This is why racism will never die, it will always be in the eye of the beholder. Raise your consciousness my brother.. you're taking a page out of the 14daroad book of arguing. no, i didn't say test scores, or tests, were racist necessarily. what i'm saying is i appreciate the idea behind AA. that is, racism against black people has existed for a long time and still exists. this racism has prevented a certain percentage of black people from competing equally with white people. AA is designed as tool to try and correct that inequality.
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scalabrine	View Space \| Blog \| Friends \| Playbook \|
All-Star Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 10338 Location: United States	#34 Posted: 5/22/2012 11:29:43 PM QUOTE Originally Posted by EazyFBaby: Affirmative action refers to policies that take factors including "race, color, religion, gender, sexual orientation or national origin"^[1] into consideration in order to benefit an underrepresented group "in areas of employment, education, and business",^[2] usually justified as countering the effects of a history of discrimination. ... Gotta love that definition right there Gotta love that definition right there So in a nutshell, the above quote is saying, "Hey fellow Caucasians!!! History of discrimination....Get a load of that!!!" :::hearty laughter follow by a swig of Milwaukee's Best and then a shaking of their head with a loud sigh and maybe an "ahhh garbage" thrown in while sitting on a barstool in a dive bar::: What's hilarious is that you are employing what you are attempting to deride. YOU are claiming to be discriminated against, hence giving credence to a 'history of discrimination' (AA is decades old and certainly can qualify as 'history'). But as is typical with whites. Their grievances are justified because they are white grievances. All others be damned!!! Think about that before you respond (for several days if necessary).
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scalabrine	View Space \| Blog \| Friends \| Playbook \|
All-Star Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 10338 Location: United States	#35 Posted: 5/22/2012 11:35:52 PM QUOTE Originally Posted by EazyFBaby: The problem is that this concept was developed when racism was more relevant than it is now, it doesn't need to be enforced in today's day and age Interesting. What evidence do you have that 'equality reigns' for 40 million black men, women and children in 2012 in the employment, housing, health care, and educational sectors outside of your own opinion? I'll wait here while you attempt to produce that for me. I have the next century free.
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sowhat83	View Space \| Blog \| Friends \| Playbook \|
Banned Joined: May 2012 Posts: 484 Location:	#36 Posted: 5/22/2012 11:54:42 PM yes, of course it's racist AND it's a slap in the face to blacks because it presupposes their inferiority, which leads to stereotypes and MORE racism....which is why even today, blacks are generally in the same position as a group they were 40 years ago
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Slovak	View Space \| Friends \| Playbook \|
All-Star Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 10650 Location: Indiana	#37 Posted: 5/23/2012 12:28:38 AM I wouldn't say that it is racist, but it's definitely not something that a Black man who actually earns and deserves his way into a job likes to know exists. In the year 2012, there is no point for it to still be around. scalabrine is once again clueless. I was just in Michigan near Detroit last week and every restauarant that I went into was completely staffed with Black employees, in fact I didn't see any white people working in any of them.
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Slovak	View Space \| Friends \| Playbook \|
All-Star Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 10650 Location: Indiana	#38 Posted: 5/23/2012 12:35:28 AM QUOTE Originally Posted by scalabrine: Gotta love that definition right there So in a nutshell, the above quote is saying, "Hey fellow Caucasians!!! History of discrimination....Get a load of that!!!" :::hearty laughter follow by a swig of Milwaukee's Best and then a shaking of their head with a loud sigh and maybe an "ahhh garbage" thrown in while sitting on a barstool in a dive bar::: What's hilarious is that you are employing what you are attempting to deride. YOU are claiming to be discriminated against, hence giving credence to a 'history of discrimination' (AA is decades old and certainly can qualify as 'history'). But as is typical with whites. Their grievances are justified because they are white grievances. All others be damned!!! Think about that before you respond (for several days if necessary). c'mon scalabrine, you know damn well that there are just as many whites out there struggling to make something out of themselves as there are Blacks.
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scalabrine	View Space \| Blog \| Friends \| Playbook \|
All-Star Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 10338 Location: United States	#39 Posted: 5/23/2012 12:35:32 AM QUOTE Originally Posted by sowhat83: yes, of course it's racist AND it's a slap in the face to blacks because it presupposes their inferiority, which leads to stereotypes and MORE racism....which is why even today, blacks are generally in the same position as a group they were 40 years ago From the lips of a white man: "Listen! This law is a slap in the face to you Blacks! It makes you look inferior to us Whites! Don't you know that! Don't you want to be on an equal plane with us!" What whites like this poster don't realize is that the biggest beneficiaries of AA were not Blacks, but white women which the law was amended to include equal protection for in 1967. No. White men like this choose NOT to mention this part of the law because they: A) are married to or are in relationships with white women B) pursue white women on a daily basis (and largely fail) C) have family members, including, most importantly, their mothers, sisters, grandmothers and Aunts that are white women. I wonder if this poster would tell white women that AA is the most sexist law of our generation, since it was necessary to allow them full protection in the white male dominated employment sector. As numerous studies have confirmed, that after all this 'Affirmative Action' in their favor, women STILL make $.77 to $.80 on the dollar compared to men, even today, and that even after controlling for many relevant factors. And these aren't flimsy studies either, this is the Government Accounting Office doing the reporting. I wonder if this poster will tell any white women at the family Thanksgiving Day table they haven't made enough progress and AA is holding them back because it presupposes their inferiority and that they aren't far enough along as they should be "as a group (compared to where) they were 40 years ago" as they ask for the crescent rolls and a second helping of cranberry sauce. I wonder if he'd have enough courage to do that since the beneficiaries are represented right before his eyes. Probably not huh...This law is ONLY about Blacks right? Anyone have some extra stuffing for this turkey of a poster???
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scalabrine	View Space \| Blog \| Friends \| Playbook \|
All-Star Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 10338 Location: United States	#40 Posted: 5/23/2012 12:36:58 AM QUOTE Originally Posted by Slovak: c'mon scalabrine, you know damn well that there are just as many whites out there struggling to make something out of themselves as there are Blacks. Oh god, you came out of your rathole already? Well, it was fun while it lasted. Needless to say, you haven't been missed.
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Slovak	View Space \| Friends \| Playbook \|
All-Star Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 10650 Location: Indiana	#41 Posted: 5/23/2012 12:52:43 AM well obviously I wasn't missed by a one track mind bubble gum racist like you. I have to admit, it was pretty funny watching you get embarrassed by some noob poster named scrod.
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Slovak	View Space \| Friends \| Playbook \|
All-Star Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 10650 Location: Indiana	#42 Posted: 5/23/2012 12:58:15 AM black people are trying their best to be part of the rest of the U.S, population and end racism, yet idiots out there are still trying to give them proper assistance that they don't really need if they are qualified for the job. all this assistance does is continue to segregate them. it's like the kid that sucks at sports getting to take as many swings as he wants until he makes contact with the ball, meanwhile the rest of the team is frustrated on the bench and the other team is laying in the grass in the outfield picking daisies.
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14daroad	View Space \| Blog \| Friends \| Playbook \|
Captain Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 7777 Location: Virginia	#43 Posted: 5/23/2012 8:52:02 AM As numerous studies have confirmed, that after all this 'Affirmative Action' in their favor, women STILL make $.77 to $.80 on the dollar compared to men, even today, and that even after controlling for many relevant factors. You mean "relevant factors" other than experience, right bozo?
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sowhat83	View Space \| Blog \| Friends \| Playbook \|
Banned Joined: May 2012 Posts: 484 Location:	#44 Posted: 5/23/2012 9:10:46 AM QUOTE Originally Posted by scalabrine: From the lips of a white man: "Listen! This law is a slap in the face to you Blacks! It makes you look inferior to us Whites! Don't you know that! Don't you want to be on an equal plane with us!" What whites like this poster don't realize is that the biggest beneficiaries of AA were not Blacks, but white women which the law was amended to include equal protection for in 1967. No. White men like this choose NOT to mention this part of the law because they: A) are married to or are in relationships with white women B) pursue white women on a daily basis (and largely fail) C) have family members, including, most importantly, their mothers, sisters, grandmothers and Aunts that are white women. I wonder if this poster would tell white women that AA is the most sexist law of our generation, since it was necessary to allow them full protection in the white male dominated employment sector. As numerous studies have confirmed, that after all this 'Affirmative Action' in their favor, women STILL make $.77 to $.80 on the dollar compared to men, even today, and that even after controlling for many relevant factors. And these aren't flimsy studies either, this is the Government Accounting Office doing the reporting. I wonder if this poster will tell any white women at the family Thanksgiving Day table they haven't made enough progress and AA is holding them back because it presupposes their inferiority and that they aren't far enough along as they should be "as a group (compared to where) they were 40 years ago" as they ask for the crescent rolls and a second helping of cranberry sauce. I wonder if he'd have enough courage to do that since the beneficiaries are represented right before his eyes. Probably not huh...This law is ONLY about Blacks right? Anyone have some extra stuffing for this turkey of a poster??? lol..typical..yawn....hero of the underrepresented..... Supporters of these racist and sexist policies , as you claim to be,claim to be anti-racist and anti-sexist (in the case of gender quotas), but in all reality it's they that really are racist and sexist. A true anti-racist and anti-sexist shouldn't care whether or not some ethnic groups or gender is over-represented or under-represented anywhere. The only thing they should care about is whether or not the most qualified get the position. Only if they are shut out on account of their race or gender should we be concerned. And , ironically, this is exactly what affirmative action/quotas will do: shut out whites or men just on account of their race or gender. The alleged anti-racism of the "anti-racists" have made them into racists. As the test scores of blacks in public schools and the far higher failure rate of those admitted under affirmative action illustrates, their under-representation simply reflects that they are under-represented among those who are qualified..... While white racists use that under-representation to argue for rejecting all blacks -even those who are qualified-, black racists and white leftists use it to reject qualified whites. In society today, only white racists are recognized as racists, black racists and white leftists are really just as racist, only they are anti-white rather than anti-black as the white racists. Both adhere to the racist principle of rejecting someone better qualified just because of their race or sex.
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sowhat83	View Space \| Blog \| Friends \| Playbook \|
Banned Joined: May 2012 Posts: 484 Location:	#45 Posted: 5/23/2012 9:15:10 AM AA has nothing to do with equal rights. Every non-White in America is already protected in hiring by civil rights law. If a Black American is truly better-qualified than other applicants and doesn’t get the job, he can sue the firm and in effect, win the lottery. AA then has absolutely nothing to do with making sure there is fairness in hiring. It is plain racist discrimination against better-qualified White people. And whether we talk about a racial quotas racial hiring or promotion goals, it is still the same thing, discrimination against a better-qualified White person in favor of a less qualified minority. The policy is based purely on race, not on any other criteria.
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AustinHoopDream	View Space \| Friends \| Playbook \|
Banned Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 8408 Location: Illinois	#46 Posted: 5/23/2012 9:15:24 AM QUOTE Originally Posted by EazyFBaby: The problem is that this concept was developed when racism was more relevant than it is now, it doesn't need to be enforced in today's day and age f'ing idiot....
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Slovak	View Space \| Friends \| Playbook \|
All-Star Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 10650 Location: Indiana	#47 Posted: 5/23/2012 9:19:14 AM there is nothing that I like to see more than a young successful black man earning his way through life. I think all white people like to see that because it gives everyone a feeling of pride in their fellow mankind. but I hate to see the black youth of today that act as though they have given up on the world wearing clothes that are 4 sizes too big, speaking a language that somewhat resembles English and just not caring at all because guys like scalabrine are telling them that it's ok to be a loser because it's not their fault because of how their race was wronged 200 years ago.
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Omerta	RSI View Space \| Friends \| Playbook \|
Veteran Joined: Feb 2009 Posts: 1042 Location: Italy	#48 Posted: 5/23/2012 9:27:44 AM There is no "affirmative action" here in Europe. In fact, it violates most constitutions. However, there are smaller programs designed to help certain minority groups, but nothing as blatant as in the States. Forget Scal, he is only one black voice, and while he is entitled to his opinion, doesn't speak for all. I have asked a few people around here and they agreed that it makes them feel inferior. Its kinda like unions, there was a time it was beneficial, but now its time to move on.
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AustinHoopDream	View Space \| Friends \| Playbook \|
Banned Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 8408 Location: Illinois	#49 Posted: 5/23/2012 9:30:47 AM QUOTE Originally Posted by AustinHoopDream: how do you feel about nepotism? how about legacies at top tier universities? how do you feel about cronyism? something tells me that at best your job requires a name tag and a uniform and nothing in the way of 'credentials' and that employers routinely hire minorities for your position not out of preference but rather out of necessity.
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EazyFBaby	RSI View Space \| Friends \| Playbook \|
Covers Rehab Joined: Nov 2010 Posts: 2305 Location: United States	#50 Posted: 5/23/2012 9:40:03 AM QUOTE Originally Posted by AustinHoopDream: f'ing idiot.... You are an absolute clown if you think that racism is the same as it was 50 years ago... please elaborate on how that statement makes me an idiot, not really expecting much out of you though.
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