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Author: [General Discussion] Topic: 9/11 conspiracy theory in 5 minutes
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#601
Posted: 6/17/2012 11:49:43 AM
"As I approached the Pentagon, which was still not quite in view, listening on the radio to the first reports about the World Trade Center disaster in New York, a jetliner, apparently at full throttle and not more than a couple of hundred yards above the ground, screamed overhead. ... Seconds before the Pentagon came into view a huge black cloud of smoke rose above the road ahead. I came around the bend and there was the Pentagon billowing smoke, flames and debris, blackened on one side and with a gaping hole where the airplane had hit it."
- "Eyewitness at the Pentagon." Human Events, 17 Sep 2001
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Posted: 6/17/2012 11:50:10 AM
"Frank Probst, an information management specialist for the Pentagon Renovation Program, left his office trailer near the Pentagon's south parking lot at 9:36 a.m. Sept. 11. Walking north beside Route 27, he suddenly saw a commercial airliner crest the hilltop Navy Annex. American Airlines Flight 77 reached him so fast and flew so low that Probst dropped to the ground, fearing he'd lose his head to its right engine."
- "A Defiant Recovery." The Retired Officer Magazine, January 2002
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Posted: 6/17/2012 11:50:35 AM
"USAToday.com Editor Joel Sucherman saw it all: an American Airlines jetliner fly left to right across his field of vision as he commuted to work Tuesday morning. It was highly unusual. The large plane was 20 feet off the ground and a mere 50 to 75 yards from his windshield. Two seconds later and before he could see if the landing gear was down or any of the horror-struck faces inside, the plane slammed into the west wall of the Pentagon 100 yards away. 'My first thought was he's not going to make it across the river to [Reagan] National Airport. But whoever was flying the plane made no attempt to change direction,' Sucherman said. 'It was coming in at a high rate of speed, but not at a steep angle-almost like a heat-seeking missile was locked onto its target and staying dead on course.'"
- "Journalist Witnesses Pentagon Crash." eWeek.com, 13 Sep 2001
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Posted: 6/17/2012 11:51:41 AM

"'I mean it was like a cruise missile with wings, went right there and slammed into the Pentagon,' eyewitness Mike Walter said of the plane that hit the military complex. 'Huge explosion, great ball of fire, smoke started billowing out, and then it was just chaos on the highway as people either tried to move around the traffic and go down either forward or backwards,' he said."
- "Witnesses and Leaders on Terrorist Attacks." CNN, 11 Sep 2001

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"'(The plane) was flying fast and low and the Pentagon was the obvious target,' said Fred Gaskins, who was driving to his job as a national editor at USA Today near the Pentagon when the plane passed about 150 feet overhead. 'It was flying very smoothly and calmly, without any hint that anything was wrong.'"
- "Bush Vows Retaliation for 'Evil Acts'." USA Today, 11 Sep 2001

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"Aydan Kizildrgli, an English language student who is a native of Turkey, saw the jetliner bank slightly then strike a western wall of the huge five-sided building that is the headquarters of the nation's military. 'There was a big boom,' he said. 'Everybody was in shock. I turned around to the car behind me and yelled "Did you see that?" Nobody could believe it.'"
- "Bush Vows Retaliation for 'Evil Acts'." USA Today, 11 Sep 2001

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"'I saw the tail of a large airliner. ... It plowed right into the Pentagon," said an Associated Press Radio reporter who witnessed the crash. 'There is billowing black smoke.'"
- "America's Morning of Terror." ChannelOne.com, 2001

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Posted: 6/17/2012 11:53:31 AM

"Omar Campo, a Salvadorean, was cutting the grass on the other side of the road when the plane flew over his head. 'It was a passenger plane. I think an American Airways plane,' Mr Campo said. 'I was cutting the grass and it came in screaming over my head. I felt the impact. The whole ground shook and the whole area was full of fire. I could never imagine I would see anything like that here.'"
- "Pentagon Eyewitness Accounts." The Guardian, 12 Sep 2001

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"Afework Hagos, a computer programmer, was on his way to work but stuck in a traffic jam near the Pentagon when the plane flew over. 'There was a huge screaming noise and I got out of the car as the plane came over. Everybody was running away in different directions. It was tilting its wings up and down like it was trying to balance. It hit some lampposts on the way in.'"
- "Pentagon Eyewitness Accounts." The Guardian, 12 Sep 2001

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"A pilot who saw the impact, Tim Timmerman, said it had been an American Airways 757. "'It added power on its way in,' he said. 'The nose hit, and the wings came forward and it went up in a fireball.'"
- "Pentagon Eyewitness Accounts." The Guardian, 12 Sep 2001

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"Steve Eiden, a truck driver, had picked up his cargo that Tuesday morning in Williamsburg, Va., and was en route to New York City and witnessed the aftermath. ... He took the Highway 95 loop in the area of the Pentagon and thought it odd to see a plane in restricted airspace, thinking to himself it was odd that it was flying so low. 'You could almost see the people in the windows,' he said as he watched the plane disappear behind a line of trees, followed by a tall plume of black smoke. Then he saw the Pentagon on fire, and an announcement came over the radio that the Pentagon had been hit."
- "Sept. 11, the Day America Changed." The Baxter Bulletin, 2001

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"Traffic is normally slow right around the Pentagon as the road winds and we line up to cross the 14th Street bridge heading into the District of Columbia. I don't know what made me look up, but I did and I saw a very low-flying American Airlines plane that seemed to be accelerating. My first thought was just 'No, no, no, no,' because it was obvious the plane was not heading to nearby Reagan National Airport. It was going to crash."
- "September 11 Remembered." University Week, 4 Oct 2001

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"Father Stephen McGraw was driving to a graveside service at Arlington National Cemetery the morning of Sept. 11, when he mistakenly took the Pentagon exit onto Washington Boulevard, putting him in a position to witness American Airlines Flight 77 crash into the Pentagon. 'I was in the left hand lane with my windows closed. I did not hear anything at all until the plane was just right above our cars.' McGraw estimates that the plane passed about 20 feet over his car, as he waited in the left hand lane of the road, on the side closest to the Pentagon. 'The plane clipped the top of a light pole just before it got to us, injuring a taxi driver, whose taxi was just a few feet away from my car. I saw it crash into the building,' he said. 'My only memories really were that it looked like a plane coming in for a landing. I mean in the sense that it was controlled and sort of straight. That was my impression,' he said. 'There was an explosion and a loud noise and I felt the impact. I remember seeing a fireball come out of two windows (of the Pentagon). I saw an explosion of fire billowing through those two windows.'"
- "Pentagon Crash Eyewitness Comforted Victims." MDW News Service, 28 Sep 2001

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"'I glanced up just at the point where the plane was going into the building,' said Carla Thompson, who works in an Arlington, Va., office building about 1,000 yards from the crash. 'I saw an indentation in the building and then it was just blown-up up-red, everything red,' she said. 'Everybody was just starting to go crazy. I was petrified.'"
- "Terrorists Attack New York, Pentagon." Los Angeles Times, 12 Sep 2001

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"I witnessed the jet hit the Pentagon on September 11. From my office on the 19th floor of the USA TODAY building in Arlington, Va., I have a view of Arlington Cemetery, Crystal City, the Pentagon, National Airport and the Potomac River. ... Shortly after watching the second tragedy, I heard jet engines pass our building, which, being so close to the airport is very common. But I thought the airport was closed. I figured it was a plane coming in for landing. A few moments later, as I was looking down at my desk, the plane caught my eye. It didn't register at first. I thought to myself that I couldn't believe the pilot was flying so low. Then it dawned on me what was about to happen. I watched in horror as the plane flew at treetop level, banked slightly to the left, drug it's wing along the ground and slammed into the west wall of the Pentagon exploding into a giant orange fireball. Then black smoke. Then white smoke."
- Steve Anderson, Director of Communications, USA Today

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"Henry Ticknor, intern minister at the Unitarian Universalist Church of Arlington, Virginia, was driving to church that Tuesday morning when American Airlines Flight 77 came in fast and low over his car and struck the Pentagon. 'There was a puff of white smoke and then a huge billowing black cloud,' he said."
- "Hell on Earth." UU World, Jan/Feb 2002

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"Northern Virginia resident John O'Keefe was one of the commuters who witnessed the attack on the Pentagon. 'I was going up 395, up Washington Blvd., listening to the the news, to WTOP, and from my left side-I don't know whether I saw or heard it first- I saw a silver plane I immediately recognized it as an American Airlines jet,' said the 25-year-old O'Keefe, managing editor of Influence, an American Lawyer Media publication about lobbying. 'It came swooping in over the highway, over my left shoulder, straight across where my car was heading. I'd just heard them saying on the radio that National Airport was closing, and I thought, "That's not going to make it to National Airport." And then I realized where I was, and that it was going to hit the Pentagon. There was a burst of orange flame that shot out that I could see through the highway overpass. Then it was just black. Just black, thick smoke.'"
- "Terrorist 'Situation'." American Lawyer Media, 11 Sep 2001

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#606
Posted: 6/17/2012 11:54:06 AM
If this were a Government Conspiracy, why did they even bother to crash flight 93? Why not just let it continue on to it's intended target?

And more so, why crash any planes at all? If the Trade Buildings were "Blown up" what was the point of bringing planes into the mixture at all?
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#607
Posted: 6/17/2012 11:55:02 AM
eye witness reports
notice the names & articles

when facts are on your side, you can present legitimate citations, you don't have to use smoke and mirrors, no need to misinterpret what somebody said, no need to post YouTube videos produced by like minded people

just present the facts and let them speak for themselves

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#608
Posted: 6/17/2012 11:55:52 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Slovak:

If this were a Government Conspiracy, why did they even bother to crash flight 93? Why not just let it continue on to it's intended target?

And more so, why crash any planes at all? If the Trade Buildings were "Blown up" what was the point of bringing planes into the mixture at all?



What would the point be of a missile directed at the Pentagon ? They already had enough stuff to start the war and pass the Patriot act.

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#609
Posted: 6/17/2012 11:56:26 AM
So, what knocked over the light poles? The US Marines,of course.
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#610
Posted: 6/17/2012 11:56:48 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by BMA:

So, what knocked over the light poles? The US Marines,of course.



everyone knows it was Cheney's oilmen
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#611
Posted: 6/17/2012 11:58:09 AM
Look, another actor paid by "them"
Robert Peraza pauses at his son's name on the 9/11 Memorial during the tenth anniversary ceremonies at the site of the World Trade Center.
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#612
Posted: 6/17/2012 11:59:38 AM
good acting
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#613
Posted: 6/17/2012 12:00:57 PM
Oscar time
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Posted: 6/17/2012 12:01:38 PM
BAFTA
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Posted: 6/17/2012 12:02:36 PM
Best Solo Performance
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#616
Posted: 6/17/2012 12:03:39 PM
Academy Special Award
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#617
Posted: 6/17/2012 1:42:27 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by MoneySRH:

So do i

I should have said I don’t believe the most powerful, intelligent military and the world's greatest super-power with the most powerful, superior and advanced military aircraft in the world (with the most advanced radar system in the world and can travel almost 2000 miles per hour) was not able to stop a single commercial plane with advanced notice. It is standard operating procedure to scramble jet fighters whenever a jetliner goes off course or radio contact with it is lost. Between September 2000 and June 2001, interceptors were scrambled 67 times. In the year 2000 jets were scrambled 129 times. The National Military Command Center monitors every inch of airspace. I stand by posts 537, 570, 574, and 575. They were prepared for this situation and all I see is excuses. I’m not naive enough to except the excuses you 911 believers present and not naive enough to swallow the governments bullshit.

Lets move on to the 911 commission, NIST, bush and cheney, and how the US government had several warnings.

I'll post links instead of just copying and pasting

1. Bush was warned Bin Laden determined to strike in US, 36 days before 911

2. Bush told officials to back off before 911

3. Bush was warned Bin Laden wanted to hijack planes

4. NORAD had drills of planes as weapons

5. US intelligence officials had several warnings

6. No link for this one. President Bush and Vice President Cheney agreed to testify only under several conditions:

They would be allowed to testify jointly.
They would not be required to take an oath before testifying.
The testimony would not be recorded electronically or transcribed, and that the only record would be notes taken by one of the commission staffers.
These notes would not be made public.

7. The 911 commission was set up to fail

8. NIST cover up

9. Gaps and inconsistencies reveal fundamental flaws in NIST's analyses
Please try to respond in one single post

I can’t wait to see what your excuses will be for these things…
Here’s another brainteaser for ya Gizmo…

10. Federal agency planned plane crash into building drill a year before 911

11. A plane crash is simulated inside the cardboard courtyard of the pentagon. The exercise was designed to help emergency personnel before 911

12. "I was sitting outside the classroom and I saw an airplane hit the tower. The TV was on. When we walked into the classroom, I had seen this plane fly into the first building."
~ President Bush

There was no live coverage of the first crash on TV and President Bush was in a classroom reading with children at the time of the second crash. How could he possibly have seen an airplane hit the tower?
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Posted: 6/17/2012 2:02:05 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by MoneySRH:

Here’s another brainteaser for ya Gizmo…

10. Federal agency planned plane crash into building drill a year before 911

11. A plane crash is simulated inside the cardboard courtyard of the pentagon. The exercise was designed to help emergency personnel before 911

12. "I was sitting outside the classroom and I saw an airplane hit the tower. The TV was on. When we walked into the classroom, I had seen this plane fly into the first building."
~ President Bush

There was no live coverage of the first crash on TV and President Bush was in a classroom reading with children at the time of the second crash. How could he possibly have seen an airplane hit the tower?



You have already been told that exercises were carried out. No one is denying that

NORAD perceived the dominant threat to be from cruise missiles. Other threats were identified during the late 1990s, including terrorists' use of aircraft as weapons.

Exercises were conducted to counter this threat, but they were not based on actual intelligence.

In most instances, the main concern was the use of such aircraft to deliver weapons of mass destruction.




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Posted: 6/17/2012 2:56:38 PM
So much for one issue at a time or you actually responding to things I post.  I digress..here we go.



True.  There was more than just one intercept performed, however, how many domestic flights originating from the US.  THAT is a key issue.  NORAD didn't even monitor commercial traffic originating from the US.  Again you are looking at just a small portion of reality.  It causes you to be misled.  I showed you an actual example of a domestic flight being intercepted (with report).  Did the FAA alert anyone immediately in the Stewart instance?  Did fighter jets arrive there minutes after the FAA noticed a problem?  I'm sure your rebuttal will be "but Stewart's situation was different and on 9/11 it should have been much faster" That is speculation and conjecture. And people can put that forward just as much as they like, but it won't change the underlying facts: the Payne Stewart timeline does not support the idea that the FAA immediately informed the military whenever they had a problem, or that intercepts typically took place in 10 or 20 minutes.  Our response was poor, it was an outdated plan, that doesn't prove anything other than we were ill prepared.


We can argue for days about what they knew and what they didn't.  There are plenty of articles to read that will support both sides.  There were warnings prior to the WTC bombings as well.  Those still happened.  Was that an inside job?  Did the government gain anything from those bombings?  I don't think the government here was without fault.  However, I would like you to explain how knowing something might happen proves the government was responsible for 09/11.  What hasn't our government flubbed up in our history?  What about Katrina?  They made a disaster out of that.  Do you honestly believe they could keep things a secret if they actually had a hand in planning the attacks?  The same government that couldn't keep a blow job secret or breaking into an office secret.  I will agree fully that we made mistakes and ignored warning signs, but this in no way proves the government was responsible for the attacks.
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Posted: 6/17/2012 2:57:52 PM
And?  This proves a conspiracy how?  I showed you the Payne Stewart example.  It's a real world example of a plane with a problem and the FAA and NORADs interactions to solve that problem.  What on 09/11, between the FAA and NORAD was different than what we would have expected given past occurrences?  I need you to tell me how things make you think a conspiracy is possible.  The FAA and NORAD acted no differently on 09/11 than they did prior to 09/11.  If there IS a conspiracy, it means, we ran drills to prepare for a response to things like 09/11...but we knew when the day came we just wouldn't use those plans.  This makes sense to you?  Why prepare for something you have no plan on using? 



My response to this is pretty much the same as above.  This proves a conspiracy how?  One thing we learned from 09/11 is the intelligence agencies sure didn't play nice together.  The FBI, CIA, etc. receives warnings and obtains intelligence every minute of every day.  If we don't act on them, and they come to fruition, does that mean the government did it/was responsible?  I know it seems like I'm just brushing this off.  I'm not, but it doesn't prove or even suggest a conspiracy.  Did our government fail us?  Yes.  Did they plan or carry out the attacks?  No, and I'm still waiting for proof they did.


Hey, we actually agree on something.  The problem, however, is again this doesn't prove they planned or carried out the attacks.  Protecting government officials is nothing new.  I believe we knew mistakes were made and they wanted to limit those things getting out.  As citizens of this country we have come to expect crooked politicians who look out for themselves first and foremost.  You have to examine ALL the evidence though.  How do politicians acting strange, looking out for themselves, mean they planned or carried out attacks on our country?  If there is a murder in your town, and you act oddly when questioned about it, it may raise suspicions but it doesn't prove you did anything wrong.
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#621
Posted: 6/17/2012 2:58:16 PM
This is based off of a book written by co chair of the commission Lee Hamilton.  So I would ask you do you support the commission or no?  If the answer is no, then why are you concerned they were "set up to fail?"  If you do support the commission then why do you not except their conclusion/official story?  This was Hamilton's response when asked about the many conspiracy theories are out there and how many people believe them..." Well, it’s dispiriting, it’s an unusually high number, but if you look at polls judging government reports in the past - the Warren Commission, the reports on Kennedy assassination, even the reports on Abraham Lincoln’s assassination - you find a very high level of people who are skeptical. And you have that in this case.

When you conduct a major investigation, you cannot possibly answer every question, you just do the best you can. But for every question you leave unanswered, you create an opening to a conspiracy theory, and a good many of them have popped up here.

The only thing I ask in the future is that the conspiracy theory people do not apply a double standard. That is to say, they want us to make an airtight case for any assertion we make. On the other hand, when they make an assertion they do it often on very flimsy evidence.

But conspirators are always going to exist in this country. Tom Kean and I got a flavour of this everytime we'd walk through an audience - they would hand us notes, hand us papers, hand us books, hand us tapes, telling us to investigate this, that or the other. You cannot possibly answer all these questions, you just do the best you can...All I ask of these people is: give me your evidence. If you thought George Bush or Lee Hamilton or Tom Kean blew up those buildings, let’s see the evidence" 

Hamilton also discusses the fact they ruled out explosives.  In fact, he fully supports the "official story."  The issues expressed our the commissions short deadline, lack of funds, and separate government agencies doing what they needed to do to deflect blame.  So how does a short deadline, lack of funds, and the government trying to deflect blame mean the government was responsible for these attacks?  So you're upset a commission that supports the official story wasn't given more time or money?  I don't understand your grievance.


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#622
Posted: 6/17/2012 2:58:33 PM

This link brings me to an essay written by Jim Hoffman.  Can you please provide me with something that tells me who this is and his qualifications?  I admittedly didn't read the whole thing.  I was turned away when I read the following, "By truncating its investigation at "collapse initiation" NIST avoids having to consider and disclose the subsequent evidence of controlled demolition."

Have you read the NIST report?  It's an engineering report.  What are your issues with it?  "Truthers" like to tell me that...1400?  1500? architects/engineers have signed a petition to reinvestigate the collapse and the their support of a possible controlled demolition.  A quick look at US Dept of Labor Statistics shows there are 1,700,000 architects/engineers in the US alone.  Say there are 5-10 times that amount world wide.  That means LESS THAN 1 in 10,000, or less than one percent of one percent support the demolition theory.  I choose to throw my hat in with 99.99% of the EXPERTS.  Usually when that many people in a given field agree, they are correct.  So your proof of a conspiracy, in this case, is a random essay written by someone I don't know, who seems to support a theory 99.99% of EXPERTS disagree with.  Fair enough.



And here we go again.  Steven Jones and Richard Gage??? REALLY??  These men have been made a mockery of by almost every other member of their field.  Jones is a PHYSICS professor!!!  What does he know about building collapse forensics??  One of Jones' colleagues, D. Allan Firmage, Professor Emeritus, Civil Engineering, BYU, said the following, "Before one (especially students) supports such a conspiracy theory, they should investigate all details of the theory. To me a practicing structural engineer of 57 continuous years (1941-1998), Professor Jones' presentations are very disturbing."  AGAIN, 99.99% disagree with people such as Jones and Gage.  Some of your questions/issues have been respectable and debatable.  Throwing your support behind gentlemen like this is both laughable and disgusting. 


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#623
Posted: 6/17/2012 2:59:23 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by MoneySRH:

Here’s another brainteaser for ya Gizmo…

10. Federal agency planned plane crash into building drill a year before 911

11. A plane crash is simulated inside the cardboard courtyard of the pentagon. The exercise was designed to help emergency personnel before 911

12. "I was sitting outside the classroom and I saw an airplane hit the tower. The TV was on. When we walked into the classroom, I had seen this plane fly into the first building."
~ President Bush

There was no live coverage of the first crash on TV and President Bush was in a classroom reading with children at the time of the second crash. How could he possibly have seen an airplane hit the tower?
Where you at Gizmo?

13. FBI knew terrorists were using flight schools

14. The US was told in 1998 that Arab terrorists were planing to fly a bomb-laden plane into the World Trade Center

15. Two years before 911, an analysis prepared for US intelligence warned that Osama Bin Laden's terrorists could hijack an airliner and fly it into government buildings

Come on Gizmo the fun is just getting started...
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#624
Posted: 6/17/2012 3:00:50 PM
Sorry for the multiple posts in my response.  It wouldn't allow me to put it all in one post.  PLEASE try and address what I say and not just post more links and   Citing Steven Jones and Richard Gage is almost the equivalent of me telling you unicorns brought down the towers.
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#625
Posted: 6/17/2012 3:11:07 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by MoneySRH:

Where you at Gizmo?

13. FBI knew terrorists were using flight schools

14. The US was told in 1998 that Arab terrorists were planing to fly a bomb-laden plane into the World Trade Center

15. Two years before 911, an analysis prepared for US intelligence warned that Osama Bin Laden's terrorists could hijack an airliner and fly it into government buildings

Come on Gizmo the fun is just getting started...


Please respond to MY answers to your previous questions.  Also please explain how any of the above proves or helps you even make a reasonable case that the government planned or carried out these attacks.  We KNOW Iran is trying to develop nuclear weapons.  If they do, and use one, does that mean the US government gave them that weapon and fired it??  Where is the connection from your links and the government committing the attacks??  Now you post entire articles.  Very good, however, you are drawing no connections or conclusions whatsoever.  If I post article after article that says President Obama is an alien does that make it so?  Holy hell
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