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Author: [Penalty Box] Topic: Based on how they are handling this case, I guess the police want 'race riots' in Florida
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#76
Posted: 3/17/2012 9:01:04 PM
@165yds

I am not trying to be the guy that knows everything at all, in fact I am not looking for confrontations here being new and all, and I certainly don't want to piss anyone off, but this scalabrine guy was way off base with his opening post in this thread and he was obviously looking to get a spark from the white community here, which I am assuming is near 100%, but his facts were off and his entire opening post was debunked within minutes.

I will have to look more into his handicapping skills before I pass complete judgment on him overall, but this thread that he created right here basically sums up his intentions as far as his social qualities and morals as a poster go. I have posted on numerous forums both social and gambling and I don't recall ever seeing someone like him ever.

The guy should have just admitted that he was wrong and not tried to defend his false information with attacks on myself and other members and then started the name calling and cursing.

This thread was over in post number three. And he should have done what I suggested and politely contacted a moderator to delete this entire thread. If he wants, I will gladly do that for him.

But if he wants to come back with a wall of text and start a war of words, I am well prepared and have no intentions of backing down either.
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#77
Posted: 3/17/2012 9:25:30 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by yuice20:

HERE are the 911 tapes if anybody wanted to hear them


On the news today they reported that the screams for Help were coming from George Zimmerman and that at the time, Trayvon Martin was on a 10 day suspension from school, but they declined to say what he was suspended for.

Supposedly Trayvon Martin was walking in the rain and stopping and staring into people's houses and there had just been a few recent break ins in the neighborhood, so George Zimmerman became suspicious of the 17 year old and they got into a confrontation and according to a witness, George Zimmerman was on the ground with his head bleeding after he shot the Teen.

I still feel that George Zimmerman was wrong, but I wasn't there, so it's hard to say exactly what happened and what went down.
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#78
Posted: 3/17/2012 9:27:16 PM

You're all acting like children and have gotten off point.  It doesn't matter what scalabrine posted, the facts are pretty simple and straightforward in this case.  One, Zimmerman was told NOT to approach, but OBSERVE.  Second, the victim was a seventeen year old and UNARMED.  In similiar cases around the country, zimmerman would have been taken into custody and questioned at the police station as to why he approached the young man instead of listening to the dispatcher. This was not done in this case.   Add to the fact that the police also tried to tell a witness what the police wanted her to say.  The police's job is to collect facts, NOT put words into people's mouths!  And top it off with the fact that the police refuse to release the 911 tapes, makes it smell of a coverup! 

The police need to come clean on this situation and let the facts speak for themselves and quit trying to simply cover their fools because a young man in now dead!

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Posted: 3/17/2012 9:39:43 PM
@seaotter

Does the title of this thread make any sense what so ever with the actual facts compared to what scalabrine tried to turn this into? This isn't about the fact that a child was killed, it is about scalabrine attempting to turn this whole thing into something that it is not.

Had scalabrine known the actual ethnic background on George Zimmerman, he would have NEVER made this thread in the first place.
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#80
Posted: 3/17/2012 10:32:08 PM
Paging SashimiKid.....what kind of fish is in hour avatar? It looks AMAZING. That is all. 
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#81
Posted: 3/17/2012 10:32:55 PM
your***
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#82
Posted: 3/17/2012 11:05:38 PM
Silent observers and antagonists,

I know many of you don't have an account and many others do but just read along. Others like to ridicule while not even understanding if their ridicule is warranted. Most see my name and ATTACK. That's fine. But it is important that you understand how I debate. There are times where I share opinions like many others here and there are threads that are appropriate for that. There are other times where I actually use citations, linked from other parts of the web, from credible sources to bolster my position. Sometimes it serves as evidence for a point previously made. Other times it helps to draw reasonable conclusions or refutations of an alternative stance if necessary. 

Ultimately, we do not know what went on in this case other than the following: A) what the police have told us and B) what the media has told us because we weren't there.

The intent of my OP is first identified right in the title. I had a problem with the POLICE and yes, this is a largely white police force and that matters. Why does that matter? Because a black minor was shot. Instantly, a black family first: a grieving mother, father, aunt, uncle, brother, sister (whomever within the family, and that list is not to be used as anything but an example of kin); and then a black community at large wanted ANSWERS and JUSTICE.

What did they receive? Nothing. Or yet, a laughably inadequate "We'll look into it." Again, a black minor is dead and there are no answers.

An admitted shooter walks free as a minor is buried.

In the 4th paragraph of my OP, before I mentioned anything about a white (at the time) night watchman, my focus was on THE POLICE. If you read the original post you will see that is the overriding theme. 

If you do not believe this and believe the post (despite the title) was solely about a WHITE shooter, you need not look further than the frequency of topic references within the posts with regard to the topics at hand. What are the two topics of interest A) That Zimmerman was a white neighborhood watchman and B) That the police grossly mishandled this case (and may have even tampered with it's potential outcome) mainly because they were dealing with a black death and potentially, a white shooter.

How many references were made about A). ONE was made in the following paragraphs: 6,8,9,10,16,18

How many references were made about B) (thematically or directly):
The title of the thread (!!!), 4 (the point), 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21 (many of which were all-import NUMBERED points to accentuate importance). 


This is not BACKTRACKING. The potential 'whiteness' of shooter matters and I will get to that. I am not disputing that. But I would like all my detractors to go back and reread the OP (specifically the ones who are saying I am 'getting owned' and ESPECIALLY crod1980 to understand, the main problem I have IS WITH THE POLICE. I would like you to assess the theme (by first READING THE TITLE) and understand where I was coming from. The police have a long and sordid history with the black community and their handling of this case only exacerbated the tense relations which eventually can lead to mass protest in the form of 'riots.' (and don't think they weren't fully aware of this as they let this drag out).

Now onto the 'whiteness', or lack thereof, of the shooter.

Does it matter? Yes. And did I quote him as white? Yes. But why?
Because the national news media (our only source of information since we were not on the scene) did so. So I used credible sites (CNN, and later The Huffington Post), to show you that this shooter, was WHITE until the night of March 15th. That is all we knew. I don't care what you think of those sites as news sources. They report the news and as a news source we can reference them for the the significant details of an crime like this one.

So what did I do? I didn't fumble my 'facts' up and I was not 'misinformed' as many of you here are buying from crod. I stated what was a FACT at the time because it was the only available information I could reference and I quoted the story as I read it. To say he was not white would be the same as saying Trayvon was shot ten times. It simply was untrue at the time of the posting. I wasn't at the scene and I wouldn't, as Lilly is so liberally willing to do in post #8, profile Zimmerman as anything but what I was told (i.e. a white male). And this WAS DIRECTLY reported from the national news media.

So what happened subsequent to that? Well of course, you have individuals who want to discredit your stance. Let me be clear, my stance is with the mishandling of this case by the police as the title dictates and as I have explained through writing the above.


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#83
Posted: 3/17/2012 11:06:01 PM
This is very important so follow the sequence of events:

In post #3, Crod1980 says I should have done more research because the shooter is Hispanic.

There are TWO problems with this post. The fact that Zimmerman might be Hispanic does not take away from the mishandling or potential witness tampering by the police in this case as I will explain. NOR was it the theme. But it was a point of interest. But in Crod1980's eyes, once you can disprove even a single point of reference in a post, one that he believes to be crucial, THE ENTIRE POST CRUMBLES. Hogwash. That is illogical and irresponsible with regard to debating. 

But still he had a point. Or did he?

As you can see, the OP was written at 9:46 PM EST on 3/15. (If it says 5:46, you will see the 4 hour lag if you post something right now in another thread. The official time of posting was 9:46 EST PM on 3/15. 

Why is that crucial? Because Zimmerman was WHITE according to the national media at that time. At 10:13 PS EST, Crod claims Zimmerman is Hispanic. Is it true? No, there is no cited evidence and it was only conjecture at that point. Of course this didn't stop some people from assuming Zimmerman was something other than white but nothing was proven.

Well, like MANNA FROM HEAVEN Crod1980's behind is saved when at 10:47 PM EST (as you see by timestamp in the article in his posted link), the Orlando Sentinal posted an article claiming that Zimmerman was white citing ZImmerman's father. His father is claiming he grew up in a multiracial home and that he is Hispanic And NOT A RACIST (what a surprise). 

So, let's take the father's word as true.

Crod's original post in Post #3 was unsupported and rightfully so, because up until that point, we could only CITE him as white. He was as he claimed is was, misinformed at that time. Crod's CITED evidence comes at 12:15 am EST, AFTER he made an unsupported claim and AFTER the Orlando Sentinal posted a "Do you believe in Miracles!!" reference for him to fall back on (and it was damn near a miracle in my eyes). 

This is all key because it takes away from the 'owning' garbage he and many here have been proclaiming about me. My OP was basedon fact at the time and as the case developed, it changed AFTER THE OP (ending speculation but providing a citable source which is the key).

Now, one last thing. Could the police have believed Zimmerman was a white male? Because everyone here thinks that if he is Hispanic than this is a non-issue, because a minority shot a minority. That is preposterous.

Well if we are using evidence draw reasonable conclusions, the answer is, quite possibly (but not definitively) YES.

Remember this. Your prejudices, preconceptions, perceptions, biases, and general assumptions about an individual or crime could be, and probably are very similar to a cop arriving at the scene of the crime. They are no more and no less special than anyone here (and many time are much more narrow-minded than average informed individuals).


What might a typical cop at the crime scene think and believe based on this evidence? And at is time, be honest with yourselves.

1. We know his name is George Zimmerman. Is George Zimmerman a white sounding name?

If you are making a snap judgement, if you are being honest with yourself, this is a white sounding name in all probability. It might not be but it most certainly could be.

2. Was George Zimmerman a night watchman (self-appointed or otherwise) in a mostly white gated community?

Yes. Whether this was stated in the 911 call or to the police directly, they found out and they knew. With a name like George Zimmerman, if you are arriving at the scene, you could think you will be addressing a white individual.

3. Does George Zimmerman look white?

This is for debate. But it certainly cannot be ruled out. And what do we know? It was nighttime which causes obvious problems when compared to a sunny day. Zimmerman had injuries which could potentially take away from any 'ethnicity identification.' Coupled with 1 and 2, it is possible we 'could' be dealing with a white male.

BUT, and this is key,

Let's say the police thought he was Hispanic.

"Hispanic" is not a race. It is an ethnicity. Someone like Cameron Diaz is a 'white-Hispanic' and can easily pass for white in many people's eyes. Someone like AROD is a 'black-hispanic' and there is little doubt that he is not white (in many people's eyes). 

But the point is that there are 'varying degrees' of whiteness and blackness (and many other races potentially), and that is why "Hispanic" is an ethnicity (self-defined and typically in multiples) and not a race. (It is actually more complicated than that but that is a thread in itself).

Why does this matter? Because the police already set the wheels in motion with this case when they arrived on the scene. They already allegedly tampered with a witness. 

Would they do this for a Hispanic male? Maybe, maybe not. But I already showed how it could be very likely they could think a night watchman in a mostly white gated community with the name "George Zimmerman" could be white. 

By the way, because he is Hispanic doesn't make him some sort of 'impure' ethnicity the police couldn't favor over the black male. Just look at the incarceration numbers of black males in this country.(They make up 40% of the inmates, mostly for nonviolent drug possession of which they possess and distribute at the SAME RATE as whites, while only comprising about 13% of the population. That's a systematic incarceration of a race folks.)

And even if he is not, both Zimmerman and the police, (as my contention), acted on BIAS against a now deceased black male, devaluing his life and, as they drag their feet with no arrests or explanation, marginalize the black community at large and worse yet the family. Could they do that for a Hispanic male as he stands before a dead black male? Yes.

When it was announced on the 15th Zimmerman was Hispanic according to the FATHER, the black community was no LESS ENRAGED in their search for justice. They want Zimmerman jailed and they want ANSWERS of which they are STILL getting none.


So look at the facts folks.

Look at how and when Crod1980 did his posting. Who posted facts when they knew them. 

Look who cited evidence and when regardless of the final outcome.

Crod1980 was saved by a miracle. I gave you what was FACT at the time (at least with regard to the police and Zimmerman). 

But I have more to say to each post which I promised. First a long break.


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#84
Posted: 3/17/2012 11:15:45 PM
Scalabrine, great post and explanation, but the question everyone really wants to know is.....would you rather have sex with a beautiful black queen or a fat white woman? 
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Posted: 3/17/2012 11:31:11 PM
Wait a minute here, let me get this straight, I posted at 10:13 that Zimmerman was Hispanic and then I was saved by a Miracle by the fact that was actually Hispanic? Seriously? So you are stating that I had absolutely no prior knowledge about this until you made this thread?

So this is your excuse to save face by stating that it was a miracle that I was actually correct?








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Posted: 3/17/2012 11:35:03 PM
Scalabrine, what the entire cover's community wants to know is this->

Would you have made this thread had you known that George Zimmerman was of Hispanic Origin?
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#87
Posted: 3/17/2012 11:46:18 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by 165yds:

Whether any of us like Scal or not he's good for the forum.  There has to be balance, not just everyone being a bunch of yes men.  It's always nice to hear someone else's point of view whether we agree with them or not.  God forbid taking a second to look at it from some one else's point of view.  Some of you are way too happy thinking Scal is squirming when it's anything but.



You can feel Scal's squirms?
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Posted: 3/18/2012 12:02:42 AM
So it took scalabrine a full 48 hours to come up with the conclusion that I was just Lucky and that he is just a poor innocent victim of circumstance in all of that drivel that he originally posted?

Say I had never joined up here and posted to correct his error, would he have recanted this thread in some form when he finally got all of the proper information that he should have had in the first place before making this thread?


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Posted: 3/18/2012 12:19:15 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by scalabrine:



In the 4th paragraph of my OP, before I mentioned anything about a white (at the time) night watchman, my focus was on THE POLICE. If you read the original post you will see that is the overriding theme. 



Yeah, that's great, but if you look up just a bit from your first paragraph to the space where your thread title is at, it is saying something different, you see the part that says "Race Wars" ?

I couldn't find anything what so ever about "Race Wars" anywhere on the internet from any of the major News Sites that you keep talking about that mislead you into your farce opening post.

Go Fish.


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Posted: 3/18/2012 12:25:59 AM
Actually "Race Riots" was the actual term that you used. I stand corrected.


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Posted: 3/18/2012 12:30:18 AM
scalabrine, you do realize that you would have been "owned" as you said the very next day by someone else when they found out the exact truth right? The fact that you were only posting news that you only knew at the time is immaterial because it debunked your entire goal for this thread which was about white people getting away with murder and the cops looking the other way.
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#92
Posted: 3/18/2012 12:49:42 AM
Ok, now, to keep my word, and just for NoWorries (who continually claims I "never have a comeback") I'm going to answer EVERY POST with some form of content (many of which will refer back to previous posts which provide an answer) from the last post I made in page #1 (post #22) to post #91 (the last post I see above this one). If I stop midway, it's for sleep, but all posts with meaningful content will be answered.

And make no mistake, the point of all this is not to bring attention to myself or prove someone wrong; it is to have the covers community recognize, at least in this case, how criminal investigations can be mishandled and or manipulated by local police forces, as can be seen in this case, particularly when a black death is involved coupled with a largely white police force and a shooter who had yet to be identified as anything other than white as far as we know at that time. It should leave you with questions about race, local police forces, bias, protest, family agony, community outrage, and nonsensical inaction. 
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#93
Posted: 3/18/2012 12:51:46 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by crod1980:

That story that I posted for you just happened to be the most recent one that I googled, because I watched the story on the news a few days ago about him being Hispanic. This didn't just happen, this shooting took place 3 weeks ago.

I have to ask you a very honest question sir, do you spend all day on the internet looking for stories about Black men and women being wronged just to preach to the world about it?

No, I don't. But when yet ANOTHER black murder, particularly one concerning an unarmed teenager, is mishandled by the police, whether it be by their hands or someone else, you can be assured you'll hear about it from me in due time.
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#94
Posted: 3/18/2012 12:53:16 AM
Any word on that sashimi? 
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Posted: 3/18/2012 12:54:07 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by crod1980:



You made it a point to say that the man who shot the Black kid was white 5 times. This was your whole point of making this thread. If you would have known that the man was of Hispanic origin, this thread would not exist, so don't try and turn the tables on me stating that it is now about the cops not doing their job.

I suggest you reread your original post.



Incorrect. As dictated by THE TITLE ITSELF (can it be anymore obvious), the thread's closing, and the referenced NUMBERED points, it is clear my problem lied with the police. 

The shooter matters. But for all we knew, and for all the police knew, this was a white male as was reported by the national media for weeks.

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#96
Posted: 3/18/2012 12:55:50 AM
140 character maximum please # 
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#97
Posted: 3/18/2012 12:56:27 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by crod1980:

Your entire opening post is nothing but your speculations for possible future events that may occur as the result of an incident that took place 3 weeks ago, one in which you just found out about today, but unfortunately your sources have dumped barrels of glue all over the street in front of the million man march that you are leading.

Time to turn around and regroup your troops and head back to Google and look for the next story to attempt to stir up the pot with.



Nice little sly dig at the Million Man March, a very distinct dog whistle to which emanates from your bigoted core.'

If you think I just found out about this case on 3/15 you are a bigger idiot than you are making yourself out to be already. 
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#98
Posted: 3/18/2012 1:06:58 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by I_Need_A_Detox:

140 character maximum please # 

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Posted: 3/18/2012 1:10:48 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by scalabrine:


Nice little sly dig at the Million Man March, a very distinct dog whistle to which emanates from your bigoted core.'

If you think I just found out about this case on 3/15 you are a bigger idiot than you are making yourself out to be already. 


If you would have had advanced knowledge of this murder, that would probably mean that you lived down here and if that were the case, you would have also known that George Zimmerman was not white.

And thus far, the only idiot that has been on display in this thread is you. If you need confirmation to that fact, please go back to the first post on page number one. That would be the one with all of the speculations that you made based off of your sources.
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Posted: 3/18/2012 1:15:45 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by scalabrine:



NUMBER 4- The ringer. The one the cops love to use on the black community....THE PREVIOUS CRIMINAL RECORD. What's the problem? When you are white, it means nothing. The cops are doing nothing about it because the white watchman is still free even though he has a record. The dead minor? NOT A SINGLE CHARGE AGAINST HIM.



Once again, something that you read on CNN?

I'm so sorry, what exactly did you make this thread for again? Was this about a dead minor, or the fact that you "Thought" that a white man went free?


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