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Author: [General Discussion] Topic: Black Jack Counting Cards
cd329 send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook |
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#26
Posted: 1/18/2012 12:14:41 AM
and i already know all you card counters will have your panties in an uproar over my post.
the people that write all the card counting books, make their money selling books, not counting cards.
If you are a card counter and winning money, your winning that money because of random luck.
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#27
Posted: 1/18/2012 2:42:33 AM
a perfect score on the sat's type of guy + goes on to a top college, that understands ... blackjack, casinos and how to handle themselves ... they can move the odds enough to always profit in blackjack if they have enough money to cover the garbage streaks. imo. 

and then they have to be stupid enough to put their smarts to a dumb illegal thing instead of doing the right thing and being successful that way. 

not too many of them out there. 

 


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#28
Posted: 1/18/2012 7:50:37 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by cd329:

how can any of you really believe in card counting today, when the fact is there are so many cards left in the shoe that you will never see, which could very well be the good cards you need to make your big bets.

also remember when the cards are supposedly in your favor, they are also in the dealers favor.

The game really is a random event, that is unless you got super powers and can see the cards.
I have watched people play the game completely opposite of the way the books all tell you to play and still win money. Like i said, its a random event and nobody knows what the next card is gonna be, thats why i always laugh at the people who get bent out of shape when somebody takes a hit, that shouldnt have taken a hit according to the so called blackjack gurus. No way to know what the next card in the deck will be.
Counting cards in blackjack is a long run process-not an instant snap shot. A good counter is increasing his bets when the percentage of aces & tens remaining in the shoe are higher then the smaller cards. You're simply playing the long run percentages.  The count can be in your favor & you can still lose hand after hand after hand-with increased your bets. It's NOT a matter of being able to predict "The Next hand." Noone can predict the next hand. But over the long-run-if you're betting more money with a high percentage of aces & tens remaing in the shoe vs. smaller cards-you'll  eventually come out ahead. As to your point that the dealer can also can also get the tens & aces-that's very true. But in a deck rich with tens & aces-the dealer can't double down & the dealer can't spilt cards & the dealer doesn't get paid 3/2 on blackjack. The dealer has fixed rules & the player doesn't. As to the cards in the shoe that player doesn't see behind the yellow cut card-in the long run-it makes no difference. That eventually evens itself out & makes no long run difference. Bottom line-if you're betting more when the percentage of aces & tens in the shoe are higher then the percentage of smaller cards. you will eventually come out ahead. Craps & roulette are definitely random games. Blackjack is definitely not a random game-over the long run.
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#29
Posted: 1/18/2012 7:57:02 AM
QUOTE

Originally Posted by cd329:

and i already know all you card counters will have your panties in an uproar over my post.
the people that write all the card counting books, make their money selling books, not counting cards.
If you are a card counter and winning money, your winning that money because of random luck.

CD you really have no idea what you are talking about. I have had a run of luck over the past 25 years.

I must be one lucky S.O.B.

But you are correct about the people that get all pissed off about someone taking a card or not. In the long run it all evens out. And the ones that girl and moan about that have no idea about counting all. They are just blackjack junkies that most don't even know basic strategy.

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#30
Posted: 1/18/2012 8:18:56 AM
The K-O System... Doesn't this rely on your estimation of cards removed from the deck in relation to the running count?  Therefore, the numbers become a little skewed, correct?
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#31
Posted: 1/18/2012 10:15:53 AM
QUOTE

Originally Posted by TheGoldenGoose:

The K-O System... Doesn't this rely on your estimation of cards removed from the deck in relation to the running count?  Therefore, the numbers become a little skewed, correct?

Well all more advanced counting systems do that. But the K-O system uses what is called an unbalanced count.  When you use a balanced count you will always be at 0 on the last card.  With an unbalanced count you don't get that.

With the K-O system you up your wagers when you hit a certain number such at +1

Example.......You start your count at -7 when the deck starts.  When it hits +1 you then up your wagers.  So you don't have to do any calculations.  Just do your usual -1, 0 or +1 for each card that comes out.

This is why I tell everyone to start out with the K-O system.  You don't have to remember any matrix with tons of numbers in it.  Here you have just one simple matrix with A,B, or C in it.  Now of course there are some adjustments if you want to get that extra .50% out of it.  But I tell everyone to just master the basics of it and worry about the rest later.  I mean really, most won't play again or it will be many years before they take another A/C or Vegas trip.

Personally I juse my own count that's a level 3 count.  It's a combination of a Uston's Advanced Point Count and mine.  I never tell anyone to use this one.  For example, here are the numbers I use.

2 = +1
3,4 =+2
5 = +3
6,7 = +2
8 = +1
9 = -1
10 = -3
A = 0

Again I use this because it's very powerful, but very, very difficult. It's just how I learned to begin with, so I have stuck with this level type of system.  If I started now I would no doubt use K-O.

There has been another author that has refined K-O even more

BTW, I did use K-O this past weekend at a private Blackjack game.  We were watching football also, so I didn't want to think about heavy calculations and such.  So I used it and did quite well. 

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#32
Posted: 1/18/2012 9:47:55 PM

Lippsman: 


Makes perfect sense to me except for one thing.  Why A = 0 ??? 

You're getting paid 3-2 on BJ and the dealer doesn't.  Those aces are valuable cards to the player.  They also help you on many double-downs like soft 17's and 18's against a dealer's 5 or 6 and  9's and 10's against the dealer's stiff numbers.
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#33
Posted: 1/18/2012 10:02:43 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Lippsman:

Well all more advanced counting systems do that. But the K-O system uses what is called an unbalanced count.  When you use a balanced count you will always be at 0 on the last card.  With an unbalanced count you don't get that.

With the K-O system you up your wagers when you hit a certain number such at +1

Example.......You start your count at -7 when the deck starts.  When it hits +1 you then up your wagers.  So you don't have to do any calculations.  Just do your usual -1, 0 or +1 for each card that comes out.

This is why I tell everyone to start out with the K-O system.  You don't have to remember any matrix with tons of numbers in it.  Here you have just one simple matrix with A,B, or C in it.  Now of course there are some adjustments if you want to get that extra .50% out of it.  But I tell everyone to just master the basics of it and worry about the rest later.  I mean really, most won't play again or it will be many years before they take another A/C or Vegas trip.

Personally I juse my own count that's a level 3 count.  It's a combination of a Uston's Advanced Point Count and mine.  I never tell anyone to use this one.  For example, here are the numbers I use.

2 = +1
3,4 =+2
5 = +3
6,7 = +2
8 = +1
9 = -1
10 = -3
A = 0

Again I use this because it's very powerful, but very, very difficult. It's just how I learned to begin with, so I have stuck with this level type of system.  If I started now I would no doubt use K-O.

There has been another author that has refined K-O even more

BTW, I did use K-O this past weekend at a private Blackjack game.  We were watching football also, so I didn't want to think about heavy calculations and such.  So I used it and did quite well. 



what's the author's name?
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#34
Posted: 1/19/2012 1:23:09 AM
They don't worry about $5 bettors.
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#35
Posted: 1/19/2012 10:09:32 AM
QUOTE

Originally Posted by WhySoSucK:



what's the author's name?

The Author of the K-O book is Olaf Vacura, Ph,D. & Ken Fuchs

Of course the Author of the Uston books is Ken Uston.

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#36
Posted: 1/19/2012 10:24:30 AM
QUOTE

Originally Posted by TheGoldenGoose:


Lippsman: 


Makes perfect sense to me except for one thing.  Why A = 0 ??? 

You're getting paid 3-2 on BJ and the dealer doesn't.  Those aces are valuable cards to the player.  They also help you on many double-downs like soft 17's and 18's against a dealer's 5 or 6 and  9's and 10's against the dealer's stiff numbers.

I should of detailed that part of it, sorry about that. I do a seperate side count of the Aces.  In counts where you don't do a side count of they will be -1 to a high of -4 for the Revere 14 count. (The guy that started the card counting) Most have them at -1 now.

BTW, Revere's family still sells his systems.  Although they can still be used today, they are generally considered obsolete due to unnecessary complexity

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#37
Posted: 1/19/2012 12:33:01 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by spocsstocks:

You think he thought you were counting cards because you were up 250? LOL. I routinley play at 25 dollar tables at ameristar in council bluffs.  Ive won over 700 in a session dropped over 1200 in a session and i know a lot of people who have won and lost more than me.  Heck the max bet is 500 dollars a hand one win there and theyve won about 3 times what you did.  They could care less about 200 dollars.  If you were taking the max maybe 10,000 a day which is the max limit there 4 or 5 days a week they might get suspicious.  Or like that crew that counted cards that took something like 7 to 10 million dollars from playing blackjack counting cards at casino in las vegas.  But going to a casino and taking two hundred and fifty bucks and you think they think your card counting thats crazy.  I bet over 200 a hand on many occasions.  Casinos pee 200 dollars.

Have to agree with that assessment.

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#38
Posted: 1/19/2012 1:41:45 PM
QUOTE

Originally Posted by TheGoldenGoose:






THAT is THE emotion you must feel when PRESSING your wagers.

When you draw a crowd at the table...

You KNOW you are KICKING behind.


 

Ha ha it's funny how two people see the same event in totally different ways.If and when I draw a crowd I move away...no matter what.. bad mojo comes from galkers.. if you play in hs room they don't allow to many galkers or cheerleaders other than those you bring in.

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#39
Posted: 1/19/2012 2:10:59 PM
Most good blackjack players I believe count in some fashion a true running count maybe not but winning in high stakes blackjack takes alot of funds and when those funds hit the table you have the attention of the house if you bet a progressive style they watch you like a hawk from behind the ball it's just the way it is. If you are sucssesful you draw some attention until they figure your methods, then you either become a known regular and they allow you to play and win some lose some or they pack you off to camp. They may allow you to play to a set level or offer you a private table but if you come in unknown and have a huge run in the public room and start drawing a crowd you'll get the boot it's just policy.
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#40
Posted: 1/20/2012 4:20:20 AM
I think that any system of card counting can be ran through simulation with the betting rules established for increasing and decreasing the bet...

showing the validity of a profit edge with card counting shouldnt be hard to prove
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#41
Posted: 1/20/2012 9:41:12 AM
QUOTE

Originally Posted by dl36:

I think that any system of card counting can be ran through simulation with the betting rules established for increasing and decreasing the bet...

showing the validity of a profit edge with card counting shouldnt be hard to prove

No doubt it can.  Casino Verite Blackjack is the go to software for all pro blackjack players and system creators.

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#42
Posted: 1/21/2012 1:08:35 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by SALTY:

You could track down your long lost half retard brother then take him to Vegas.


It worked in that movie and you may learn a life lesson that money and greed is not the answer. 

A good way to find the right retard if you do not have a long lost bro is......Start randomly throwing handfuls of toothpicks on the ground around where tards hang, l suggest around door greeters at Wal-Mart or maybe at any McDonalds around thier employess


If at anytime one of your tards shouts out the number of toothpicks, kidnap that person and head to the big city








salttttty   dogggggg
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#43
Posted: 2/4/2012 11:18:36 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Lippsman:

Well all more advanced counting systems do that. But the K-O system uses what is called an unbalanced count.  When you use a balanced count you will always be at 0 on the last card.  With an unbalanced count you don't get that.

With the K-O system you up your wagers when you hit a certain number such at +1

Example.......You start your count at -7 when the deck starts.  When it hits +1 you then up your wagers.  So you don't have to do any calculations.  Just do your usual -1, 0 or +1 for each card that comes out.

This is why I tell everyone to start out with the K-O system.  You don't have to remember any matrix with tons of numbers in it.  Here you have just one simple matrix with A,B, or C in it.  Now of course there are some adjustments if you want to get that extra .50% out of it.  But I tell everyone to just master the basics of it and worry about the rest later.  I mean really, most won't play again or it will be many years before they take another A/C or Vegas trip.

Personally I juse my own count that's a level 3 count.  It's a combination of a Uston's Advanced Point Count and mine.  I never tell anyone to use this one.  For example, here are the numbers I use.

2 = +1
3,4 =+2
5 = +3
6,7 = +2
8 = +1
9 = -1
10 = -3
A = 0

Again I use this because it's very powerful, but very, very difficult. It's just how I learned to begin with, so I have stuck with this level type of system.  If I started now I would no doubt use K-O.

There has been another author that has refined K-O even more

BTW, I did use K-O this past weekend at a private Blackjack game.  We were watching football also, so I didn't want to think about heavy calculations and such.  So I used it and did quite well. 

 

YOU MENTIONED STARTING WITH A NEW DECK START YOUR COUNT WITH -7

 

IF YOU JUST SHUFFLED AND CUT THE CARDS WHY START WITH -7  AND NOT ZERO

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#44
Posted: 2/5/2012 1:34:14 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Lippsman:

Well all more advanced counting systems do that. But the K-O system uses what is called an unbalanced count.  When you use a balanced count you will always be at 0 on the last card.  With an unbalanced count you don't get that.

With the K-O system you up your wagers when you hit a certain number such at +1

Example.......You start your count at -7 when the deck starts.  When it hits +1 you then up your wagers.  So you don't have to do any calculations.  Just do your usual -1, 0 or +1 for each card that comes out.

This is why I tell everyone to start out with the K-O system.  You don't have to remember any matrix with tons of numbers in it.  Here you have just one simple matrix with A,B, or C in it.  Now of course there are some adjustments if you want to get that extra .50% out of it.  But I tell everyone to just master the basics of it and worry about the rest later.  I mean really, most won't play again or it will be many years before they take another A/C or Vegas trip.

Personally I juse my own count that's a level 3 count.  It's a combination of a Uston's Advanced Point Count and mine.  I never tell anyone to use this one.  For example, here are the numbers I use.

2 = +1
3,4 =+2
5 = +3
6,7 = +2
8 = +1
9 = -1
10 = -3
A = 0

Again I use this because it's very powerful, but very, very difficult. It's just how I learned to begin with, so I have stuck with this level type of system.  If I started now I would no doubt use K-O.

There has been another author that has refined K-O even more

BTW, I did use K-O this past weekend at a private Blackjack game.  We were watching football also, so I didn't want to think about heavy calculations and such.  So I used it and did quite well. 



Damn that seems like it could be really hard to keep the count in your head. I've been trying to use the high/low counting when I've gone the past couple weeks and it's harder than I imagined. Some dealers kick the cards out so fast I can't event think that fast. Then you got people at the table who want to talk to you. So many distractions, I've pretty much have gone even the last few times I've been there.

Hopefully I'll get better, and maybe try this system out in the future.
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#45
Posted: 2/5/2012 1:44:59 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by harvick_29:

 

YOU MENTIONED STARTING WITH A NEW DECK START YOUR COUNT WITH -7

 

IF YOU JUST SHUFFLED AND CUT THE CARDS WHY START WITH -7  AND NOT ZERO

Because it's an unbalanced count. You don't have to worry about doing deck conversions.  It you have a count that starts with 0, then that means you are doing conversions with the count divided with decks or half decks left.

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#46
Posted: 2/5/2012 1:47:03 PM
QUOTE

Originally Posted by lakers34kb:



Damn that seems like it could be really hard to keep the count in your head. I've been trying to use the high/low counting when I've gone the past couple weeks and it's harder than I imagined. Some dealers kick the cards out so fast I can't event think that fast. Then you got people at the table who want to talk to you. So many distractions, I've pretty much have gone even the last few times I've been there.

Hopefully I'll get better, and maybe try this system out in the future.

Don't use my count !!!.  Get the KO book and learn that.  You will do much better and enjoy counting much more.

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#47
Posted: 3/2/2012 11:01:43 PM

Today I took Wifey to the casino.  Working with a short bankroll of $500 because that is about what my winnings were last trip and I am no fool.  It is amazing how much focused I am with short money, I swear I do my best work with a small bankroll.  So much more in tune with the game because every play is critical.

The first session was a battle but I ended up walking away +270 after about 45 minutes.  Took a nice lunch break and reset the mechanism.

The second session I buy in for $500 and start playing two hands on first base for the $15 table minimum each.  I keep a running count very similar to Lippsman with a seperate count for Aces.  There are two other players at the table playing single hands, so a total of five hands being played including the dealer.

We played the first SEVEN HANDS of the shoe WITHOUT ONE SINGLE ACE being dealt.  This is an incredible situation.  I fired up two $150 bets on each hand.  Dealer shows a 5 up.

Blackjack on my first hand for +225.

Was dealt a 7-3 on hand number two which I of course doubled and GOT ANOTHER ACE for 21.  Dealer broke and paid the table.

+525 in 30 seconds.

Blackjack can be an awesome game when the cards do what they are SUPPOSED to do!!!

LIPPSMAN second separate count on aces...  IT WORKS.

One hand made my day.  +750 and a sweet ride home.
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#48
Posted: 3/2/2012 11:32:34 PM



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#49
Posted: 3/3/2012 12:08:10 AM
QUOTE

Originally Posted by TheGoldenGoose:


Today I took Wifey to the casino.  Working with a short bankroll of $500 because that is about what my winnings were last trip and I am no fool.  It is amazing how much focused I am with short money, I swear I do my best work with a small bankroll.  So much more in tune with the game because every play is critical.

The first session was a battle but I ended up walking away +270 after about 45 minutes.  Took a nice lunch break and reset the mechanism.

The second session I buy in for $500 and start playing two hands on first base for the $15 table minimum each.  I keep a running count very similar to Lippsman with a seperate count for Aces.  There are two other players at the table playing single hands, so a total of five hands being played including the dealer.

We played the first SEVEN HANDS of the shoe WITHOUT ONE SINGLE ACE being dealt.  This is an incredible situation.  I fired up two $150 bets on each hand.  Dealer shows a 5 up.

Blackjack on my first hand for +225.

Was dealt a 7-3 on hand number two which I of course doubled and GOT ANOTHER ACE for 21.  Dealer broke and paid the table.

+525 in 30 seconds.

Blackjack can be an awesome game when the cards do what they are SUPPOSED to do!!!

LIPPSMAN second separate count on aces...  IT WORKS.

One hand made my day.  +750 and a sweet ride home.

GG,

This made my day !!!!! The side count of aces is very powerful indeed. 

Congrats.

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#50
Posted: 3/7/2012 3:54:03 AM
I have been counting cards for years, I usually win a little . I cannot take the swings though of having that big money out there with a positive count and losing.  Too much for me to bet anything that would make a difference in my life.
I usually find a $10 table and then play up to $50-100, just enough to get a small edge.
I cannot imagine starting at $100 and going to $2000 or so, that would be insane to me.
It works most of the time but when the count gets positive the dealer also hits the 20 and 21 a lot.......and you are looking at 16, it is a totally helpless friggin feeling knowing the deck is full of monkeys at that point.
I have also sat down at tables and looked at 10 shoes and never seen a positive true count worth playing, that totally sucks too.

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