Sad day for me as a Braves fan. God i really am starting to hate baseball as a sport. I have to decide if i want to be a part of a sport that's basically dead
Sad day for me as a Braves fan. God i really am starting to hate baseball as a sport. I have to decide if i want to be a part of a sport that's basically dead
As a Pirates fan, it is by virtue of DNA that I hate the St. Louis Cardinals.
That being said, they are one of the best franchises in sports. And this trade is a microcosm of that.
The Cardinals have Shelby Miller's growing on trees in that farm system. They dealt a fastball pitcher at the right time with his 2nd half numbers last year. Not to mention, Shelbo had a career over 3.5 ERA vs. the Pirates. I imagine that played a role in this as well seeing that those guys have been your biggest threat last three years. And all being said, he's a fastball pitcher at the end of the day. This isn't a game changer by any mean's for Atlanta. Innings eater, yep. Nothing more. But you look at Heyward..this is a guy that instantly changes things in STL. He brings speed/fielding which is exactly what was needed. And I see that JHey's numbers were down last year offensively. I also saw Freddi using him in different spots every day, being it leadoff, 3 hole....
Personally putting speed aside here, I always saw JHey as a RISP guy. He's a pull hitter with slap. I see Matheny utilizing him in an RBI slot and keeping it that way. And STL has the guys that will get on base for him.
The Cards time and time again trade for studs at the right time, they trade their duds at the right time, and they have a farm system to back both sides up.
As a Pirates fan, it is by virtue of DNA that I hate the St. Louis Cardinals.
That being said, they are one of the best franchises in sports. And this trade is a microcosm of that.
The Cardinals have Shelby Miller's growing on trees in that farm system. They dealt a fastball pitcher at the right time with his 2nd half numbers last year. Not to mention, Shelbo had a career over 3.5 ERA vs. the Pirates. I imagine that played a role in this as well seeing that those guys have been your biggest threat last three years. And all being said, he's a fastball pitcher at the end of the day. This isn't a game changer by any mean's for Atlanta. Innings eater, yep. Nothing more. But you look at Heyward..this is a guy that instantly changes things in STL. He brings speed/fielding which is exactly what was needed. And I see that JHey's numbers were down last year offensively. I also saw Freddi using him in different spots every day, being it leadoff, 3 hole....
Personally putting speed aside here, I always saw JHey as a RISP guy. He's a pull hitter with slap. I see Matheny utilizing him in an RBI slot and keeping it that way. And STL has the guys that will get on base for him.
The Cards time and time again trade for studs at the right time, they trade their duds at the right time, and they have a farm system to back both sides up.
Calling Heyward a great player is a bit of a stretch. Gold Glove defense for sure but .271/.354/ .384 is not what I consider a great offensive corner outfielder and that was in 649 PA last year. Granted it was down from previous years but that is where he is at now, what he does next year is not predicatable in the sense of the truly great players where you have a pretty good idea of where they will be at the end of the year. Nice affordable contract for next season with a young guy who may put up better numbers, but then he is a free agent and the price he is likely to get would have put him out of the Braves price range anyways. I like this move from the Braves standpoint as Miller working with the Braves organization very well may realize more of his potential and then they get a few more years of reasonably priced service and Jenkins had a real nice AFL and might just be a little something in the coming years as well.
Calling Heyward a great player is a bit of a stretch. Gold Glove defense for sure but .271/.354/ .384 is not what I consider a great offensive corner outfielder and that was in 649 PA last year. Granted it was down from previous years but that is where he is at now, what he does next year is not predicatable in the sense of the truly great players where you have a pretty good idea of where they will be at the end of the year. Nice affordable contract for next season with a young guy who may put up better numbers, but then he is a free agent and the price he is likely to get would have put him out of the Braves price range anyways. I like this move from the Braves standpoint as Miller working with the Braves organization very well may realize more of his potential and then they get a few more years of reasonably priced service and Jenkins had a real nice AFL and might just be a little something in the coming years as well.
Tigermike, I respect your view on the trade, but you have to consider the variables in Heyward's way of true production last year. Like I said before, Freddi switching him around the order like that didn't help his #'s. With Simmons going down and no production at the top of the order, I know it was hard for Freddi not to look at JHey as a leadoff hand, but that's just not who he is. I think he's in the right atmosphere now to be the productive outfielder in a 3 hole type slot (maybe 2??) in a place where runners are on base.
And with Shelby, maybe this thing really pays off. But I just don't put much stock in fastball pitchers that are utilizing the pitch 95% + of the time. Like you said he is in a place where they can work with him and build off of what he is already. But aside from his 2nd half of last year, I've never seen anything in the guy that says he's anything more than a typical innings eater worth 5-6 innings. That's good stuff if you're a lefty. A righty, like Shelby though, it's not as rare to come by these days as one would think.
I do think the prospects they picked up were solid pieces to add the farm system.
I'm really looking forward to seeing where these two guy's go from here. It's all speculation and talk now. I wish this was a mid-season trade so we can see the results now. This will be interesting though!
Tigermike, I respect your view on the trade, but you have to consider the variables in Heyward's way of true production last year. Like I said before, Freddi switching him around the order like that didn't help his #'s. With Simmons going down and no production at the top of the order, I know it was hard for Freddi not to look at JHey as a leadoff hand, but that's just not who he is. I think he's in the right atmosphere now to be the productive outfielder in a 3 hole type slot (maybe 2??) in a place where runners are on base.
And with Shelby, maybe this thing really pays off. But I just don't put much stock in fastball pitchers that are utilizing the pitch 95% + of the time. Like you said he is in a place where they can work with him and build off of what he is already. But aside from his 2nd half of last year, I've never seen anything in the guy that says he's anything more than a typical innings eater worth 5-6 innings. That's good stuff if you're a lefty. A righty, like Shelby though, it's not as rare to come by these days as one would think.
I do think the prospects they picked up were solid pieces to add the farm system.
I'm really looking forward to seeing where these two guy's go from here. It's all speculation and talk now. I wish this was a mid-season trade so we can see the results now. This will be interesting though!
Good point with Heyward Drizzle, being in a better,more stable lineup could help move his production upward. It is a huge year for him in terms of dollars he will realize on his next contract. This is one of those fun trades to follow.
Good point with Heyward Drizzle, being in a better,more stable lineup could help move his production upward. It is a huge year for him in terms of dollars he will realize on his next contract. This is one of those fun trades to follow.
I can't say I hate the move on the Braves end. Heyward is a free agent after the season while Miller can hit free agency after the 2019 season (I believe). Miller is a really nice pitcher and Heyward has never lived up to his hype on the offensive end.
The problem, however, is that the Braves NEED offense. The fact that they now have no choice but to throw BJ out there every game also doesn't help their cause.
I can't say I hate the move on the Braves end. Heyward is a free agent after the season while Miller can hit free agency after the 2019 season (I believe). Miller is a really nice pitcher and Heyward has never lived up to his hype on the offensive end.
The problem, however, is that the Braves NEED offense. The fact that they now have no choice but to throw BJ out there every game also doesn't help their cause.
The best think Heyward has going for him is he is only 25. He could improve a lot the next year or two in the Cards system which can develop players better than most teams.
The best think Heyward has going for him is he is only 25. He could improve a lot the next year or two in the Cards system which can develop players better than most teams.
I'm totally forgetting Jordan Walden went to STL in this deal as well.
Yikes! That's a really good set up hand going over to the Cards. Jenkins is a good prospect, but JW is a really good hand to have late in the pen, NOW.
I'm totally forgetting Jordan Walden went to STL in this deal as well.
Yikes! That's a really good set up hand going over to the Cards. Jenkins is a good prospect, but JW is a really good hand to have late in the pen, NOW.
Upton got 5 years and 75 million. Heyward WILL get $100+ million from SOMEBODY and that sure as hell wasn't going to be the Braves. It's a smart move, imo. Braves fans LOVE Heyward. Home grown on both accounts and is a great guy but based on what he's DONE...he's not worth that contract. But based on his age and POTENTIAL...he'll get it.
Upton got 5 years and 75 million. Heyward WILL get $100+ million from SOMEBODY and that sure as hell wasn't going to be the Braves. It's a smart move, imo. Braves fans LOVE Heyward. Home grown on both accounts and is a great guy but based on what he's DONE...he's not worth that contract. But based on his age and POTENTIAL...he'll get it.
So, the Braves have parted company with Bourn and Heyward and retained the Upton Brothers with contracts they can't dump. More decline? Do they get passed by the Mets and Marlins both next year?
Now and then even a BLIND squirrel can find an acorn
So, the Braves have parted company with Bourn and Heyward and retained the Upton Brothers with contracts they can't dump. More decline? Do they get passed by the Mets and Marlins both next year?
So, the Braves have parted company with Bourn and Heyward and retained the Upton Brothers with contracts they can't dump. More decline? Do they get passed by the Mets and Marlins both next year?
Could not agree more, I am not sure of budget considerations, bit the cheap-behind braves not have parted ways with Bourne, Tim Hudson, and not Jason, because of money, I am not sure I'll renew my mlb pkg. next yr to watch this cheap -behind organization on my usual daily basis.
So, the Braves have parted company with Bourn and Heyward and retained the Upton Brothers with contracts they can't dump. More decline? Do they get passed by the Mets and Marlins both next year?
Could not agree more, I am not sure of budget considerations, bit the cheap-behind braves not have parted ways with Bourne, Tim Hudson, and not Jason, because of money, I am not sure I'll renew my mlb pkg. next yr to watch this cheap -behind organization on my usual daily basis.
Key: I would be surprised of Justin Upton is with them much longer. I think they will move him soon if they can get any kind of return. BJ as we know will be a Brave until they finally decide to DFA him.
Key: I would be surprised of Justin Upton is with them much longer. I think they will move him soon if they can get any kind of return. BJ as we know will be a Brave until they finally decide to DFA him.
Not so sure Tiger. I don't think there are as many teams ready to fall for Justin as there once were. Word spreads and they want the talent but not the baggage that comes with him.
Now and then even a BLIND squirrel can find an acorn
Not so sure Tiger. I don't think there are as many teams ready to fall for Justin as there once were. Word spreads and they want the talent but not the baggage that comes with him.
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