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Author: [NBA Betting] Topic: Laker fans getting Howard does not = RING
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#51
Posted: 8/17/2012 6:09:18 AM

There is one way lakers win the championship if lebron james gets hurt if he doesnt miami is most likely to repeat imo

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#52
Posted: 8/17/2012 10:48:01 PM

Miami and OKC are NOT losing any sleep about the Lakers

Yes, they have a better team than last year

But OKC (has STUDS....4 olympians on their squad)

And Miami (has best all around player and two other olympians on their squad.....and last year they were better than the year before and next year they will be better than this championship year.....folks it is called...c....h.....e...m...i...s...t....r....y

CHEMISTRY......Miami and OKC have IT......LA must find theres and folks are thinking it will come automatically or quickly and I just don't think that will be the case.......primarily b/c it does take time to learn new teammates (new offense?....etc..etc...) not to mention the Lakers are old as heck in the backcourt (over 70 yrs old).....and D12 is coming off of BACK SURGERY

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#53
Posted: 8/18/2012 1:24:08 AM
go go go lakers.
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#54
Posted: 8/18/2012 1:29:42 AM
kobe have 5 ring james has 1 only.

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#55
Posted: 8/18/2012 1:31:37 AM
takot n takot cla s lakers hahaha.
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#56
Posted: 8/18/2012 1:52:35 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by ct1016:

Miami and OKC are NOT losing any sleep about the Lakers

Yes, they have a better team than last year

But OKC (has STUDS....4 olympians on their squad)

And Miami (has best all around player and two other olympians on their squad.....and last year they were better than the year before and next year they will be better than this championship year.....folks it is called...c....h.....e...m...i...s...t....r....y

CHEMISTRY......Miami and OKC have IT......LA must find theres and folks are thinking it will come automatically or quickly and I just don't think that will be the case.......primarily b/c it does take time to learn new teammates (new offense?....etc..etc...) not to mention the Lakers are old as heck in the backcourt (over 70 yrs old).....and D12 is coming off of BACK SURGERY



Dwight Howard is running and doing light work outs at UCLA currently

and backcourt  (sg/pg are not the only positions in basketball)

Age is not a factor so much between if its Mia vs. Lal

Also
the Lakers bench have some young players, bench actually younger average age than Miami bench.


joel anthony is 30 ---------- devin ebanks will be 23 years old
shane battier is 33 ---------- steve blake will be 33 in February
james jones 32 in October ---- jordan hill is 25 years old
udonis haslem is 32 years old -------- chris duhon is 29 years old
mike miller will be 33 in February ------- antawn jamison is 36
mario chalmers tuns 27 in May ----- jodie meeks is 24 years old


Avg. age of Starters

Miami 28+ 29 + 31 + 37 + 33 = 158/5 = 31.6 round to nearest tenth = 32 years old
Lakers 33 + 27 + 33 + 39 + 32 = 164/5 = 32.8 round to nearest tenth = 33 years old


lebron turns 28 this December _______ mwp will be 33 years old in November
bosh will turn 29 in March _________ howard will be 27 years old in December
wade will be 31 in January _______ kobe is 33 (turns 34 in August After playoffs)
ray allen is 37 ___________ nash will be 39 in February
rashard lewis is 33 _________ pau is 32, turns 33 after playoffs
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#57
Posted: 8/18/2012 8:51:47 AM

I never said Miami was a spring chicken....or young guns

But your comparison while accurate is cherry picking the ages of the squads relative to their impact

If a player is asked to truly carry a load....well to me age matters

Kobe is asked to close...

Nash asked to run offense and facilitate

Pau to remain a skilled player with impact

all of these guys are older than Wade....and I didn't even mention Jamisson and Meta World Peace

the guys on miami's roster that are 32 plus years old are asked to fill a role and not do any "heavy lifting"

stand over there and knock down that wide open shot is different from   "running the offense.....closing the game"

What makes the Heat go is .....LBJ.....and that his two sidekicks are still in their prime.

I am in the minority....but Nash to me is no longer in his prime  and Kobe to me has dropped a little from superstar to star (seems insignificant)....but Kobe needs a lot of shots to get his points...

chalmers wade  lbj  bosh and anthony is not an old starting lineup

while the lakers backcourt is 38 plus 33 = 71 years old

That to me will be a factor as this season progresses

 

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#58
Posted: 8/18/2012 12:24:04 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by ct1016:

I never said Miami was a spring chicken....or young guns

But your comparison while accurate is cherry picking the ages of the squads relative to their impact

If a player is asked to truly carry a load....well to me age matters

Kobe is asked to close...

Nash asked to run offense and facilitate

Pau to remain a skilled player with impact

all of these guys are older than Wade....and I didn't even mention Jamisson and Meta World Peace

the guys on miami's roster that are 32 plus years old are asked to fill a role and not do any "heavy lifting"

stand over there and knock down that wide open shot is different from   "running the offense.....closing the game"

What makes the Heat go is .....LBJ.....and that his two sidekicks are still in their prime.

I am in the minority....but Nash to me is no longer in his prime  and Kobe to me has dropped a little from superstar to star (seems insignificant)....but Kobe needs a lot of shots to get his points...

chalmers wade  lbj  bosh and anthony is not an old starting lineup

while the lakers backcourt is 38 plus 33 = 71 years old

That to me will be a factor as this season progresses

 


If your going to say Kobe has dropped off a bit which I agree, you'd have to say the same for Wade especially considering Wade is the  type of player who runs into the paint and almost always falls (takes more of a toll on the body).

The bit about all these guys are older than Wade is almost like well every starter on Lakers and Miami is older than Dwight Howard (27 in December).

Jamison is a guy who was picked to be a stand over there and shoot Lakers got him to provide some points for bench.

But my main point here is to me not so much who is in their prime but can the players still produce at high enough level that if say a 25 year old was producing same #'s they'd be an all star.


I don't think anyone can really question that Kobe can still produce close to 30 points on like 23 shots which is not great percentage but the types of shots he takes its understandable.

Nash yes he is a lot older than he used to be but still shoots like 50% and above 39% from 3 pt land. But most important is his Assists and turnover.       When he was in Dallas he averaged 8.8 assists and 2.68 turnovers. First year in Phoenix 11.5 assists and 3.27 turnover (2004-2005 season)       
2011-2012  Nash   10.7 assists and 3.69 turnover.     
   Only Rajon rondo averaged higher assist  and similar turnover 3.64

Pau is older but he is still top 5 big man in the NBA in terms of pts/rebs and FG %.

Dwight is top center in the NBA, almost every single category in head to head comparison he beats Andrew Bynum I can post it but its rather long from hoopstat.

Kobe and Nash have the ability to run though multiple good screens from Pau and Dwight. Dwight is more athletic than Bynum even though Bynum has displayed more post moves.

To me the difference Lakers have 1 more player that can produce high stats.
MWP and Lebron  advantage Lebron
Pau and Lewis    advantage Pau
Howard and Bosh advantage Howard
Kobe and Wade  (slightly in favor of Kobe or a even)
Nash and Ray Allen  advantage Nash in terms of impact 8 assists is what I think he'll average(all Ray allen is depended upon is 3 pt so maybe 10 or so points from him)  8 assists is roughly 16 points.

Or maybe this is the question
If Mia can get  lineup of    (money not an issue for Miami we're pretending)
Lebron
Pau
Howard
Wade
Nash

or
Lebron
Lewis
Bosh
Wade
Ray Allen
which appears to be better chance of championship.  Ray Allen is declining faster than Nash and Rashard Lewis 15 or so points possibly is not equal to Pau Gasol's 17 pts and 8+ rebounds.
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#59
Posted: 8/18/2012 3:16:51 PM
Nice comment & post
I disagree about kobe vs wade
Kobe has had the better career but wade is the better player right now
 
I have been tracking those 2 for years.....kobe scores more points.....but is not definitively a better scorer than flash
 
But the media keeps annoiting kobe as this greater. defender....and I have watched folks go around him time after time after time....it is not just him...it is everyone on that squad....they are slow and do not draw many charges if any at all
 
But back to kobe vs wade on defense
defensively Wade gets more blocks....more rebounds and more steals than kobe every year....but the media keeps annointing kobe as the best all team sg defender on the all defensive team
wierd but true.
 
In your above comparison ...I actually feel D Wade and Kobe is EVEN.....and D Wade is slightly better b/c he is younger....and is the better defender.
 
The one wild card if this matchup ever was to occur is the best player on the floor is       LBJ
And if he is performing like he did Game 4 @ Indy
Game 6 @ Boston
Game 2 @ OKC
and the closeout game vs OKC........then D12. Pau or whoever will be mute....best player on a team that might be even with the other team = advanatage team with the best player
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#60
Posted: 8/18/2012 3:31:43 PM

If you think about it....Miami was the underdog going into the OKC series

folks was saying we will see who is better durant or LBJ?

and the media actually (like you just did in your post) gave the edge "on paper" to OKC (like you did on paper give the edge to LA)

But thats why they play the dam games (smile) and we see how a team's chemistry, coaching, defense, offense, turnovers forced, unforced turnovers, etc...etc...comes into play when teams are being guarded and defended by playoff caliber opponents

When it is all said and done....I just think Miami plays a little better team defense than any other team in league (they have some shot blocking.....get a LOT OF STEALS from multiple players...draw charges from multiple players ....).....and while offense is sexy...defense still wins out.

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#61
Posted: 8/18/2012 3:58:13 PM

All this LBJ hate...

If it's LAL vs Miami in the Finals this year..I see Miami repeating. Refs will be on MIA side no doubt

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#62
Posted: 8/18/2012 4:10:07 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by ct1016:

If you think about it....Miami was the underdog going into the OKC series

folks was saying we will see who is better durant or LBJ?

and the media actually (like you just did in your post) gave the edge "on paper" to OKC (like you did on paper give the edge to LA)

But thats why they play the dam games (smile) and we see how a team's chemistry, coaching, defense, offense, turnovers forced, unforced turnovers, etc...etc...comes into play when teams are being guarded and defended by playoff caliber opponents

When it is all said and done....I just think Miami plays a little better team defense than any other team in league (they have some shot blocking.....get a LOT OF STEALS from multiple players...draw charges from multiple players ....).....and while offense is sexy...defense still wins out.



Yup will be interesting to see if Howard can notch another DPOY


Mia fans should be happy they got some additional help (Allen/Lewis) with a team that proved they can win.

Lal  fans should be happy they got athleticism, offense and defense in Howard, and at least top 10 faciliator in Nash.

Okc fans should be happy they will have a more hungry Durant and co after losing to Heat.

Season and playoffs are so far away.
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#63
Posted: 8/18/2012 4:25:29 PM
So tru'
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#64
Posted: 8/18/2012 11:44:45 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by ct1016:

MATTBROT QUOTE WROTE

not sure about the lakers. But I do know that the Heat will not win another. Lets face it, they got lucky this year. Everything went their way. Lebron played above his head and made some real lucky shots. He is over rated and a choker, two things that do not make a champion.

So LBJ played above his head?   Really?

Man, wikepedia LBJ.....he has gotten better every year he has been in the league and that is extraordinary for someone that came into the league with the hype he had

I like coming in these threads to talk LBJ...so bashers bring it on like you always do.....but this LBJ over rated and hate crap is ridiculous

Now back to this overrated crap

1)   Did you know LBJ has five of the TOP 10 RATED seasons in NBA History......yeah, I know....you didn't know that.   It's him and MJ , Wilt Chamberlain and thats it,,,,,,,,they are the top rated players of all time

2)   LBJ is already rated the #2 player of all time behind MJ.....

Now #1 and #2 above are based on the computers looking @ pts, rebs, assists, steals, blocks, minutes played, point differential when on the floor....etc..etc..etc..

3)  LBJ only one of 3 men to lead team in pts, rebs, assts, steals and blocks in season,,,,,,did it with cavs

folks that thought that was a fluke - last year he led the heat in every thing except blocks....yeah, I know....your favorite player can't even approach that....but lbj is overrated.  

yeah, right

4) he is the fastest and youngest to 5,000 pts...then 10,000 pts, then 15,000 pts....hmmmmm, you finish the math...he will approach Jabbar's all time scoring mark.  believe dat.

5) Accolades....rookie of year....3 time nba mvp.....1 finals mvp...1 scoring title (but is constantly top 3 or 4 in scoring in league every year) ....was 2nd in nba defensive player of year twice.....coaches gave him most votes for all defensive team last year......will have two gold medals (and a bronze)......is approaching David Robinson to be USA olympic basketball all time leading ...we all know he will be or is already...USA basketball all time leader in assists.......

6)  Last year playoff run - he had three "signature games" in the playoffs....Game 4 @ Indiana.....Game 6 @ Boston and ...Game 2 @ OKC......basketball is a team game....but the overrated guy clearly was the alpha dog on  a small miami heat team....with a hurt knee D Wade....and a recovering but banged up  Chris Bosh......folks forget.....the Heat was HURT in the playoffs....but LBJ made folks not talk about that.....

I will stop there - yes, you have your hate moment or moments - but trust me....let's not get into a 'pissing' contest of LBJ being overrated vs. him being a GREAT ONE.....and probably already deemed to be the best SF to ever play the game.


1st: To quote the great movie "Napoleon Dynamite" - "like anyone can even know that". These are stats that are impossible to prove.

2nd (and most important): Just for shits and giggles lets assume that these stats you list are correct (again how can anyone know that but lets assume that they are). They are incredibly empty stats. I have never argued that LBJ is not a stat filler. He can score all produce all day long when the game is out of reach or is not in crunch time. In this regard he is lucky that he has Wade to produce when it matters (but that is a whole different discussion). Kind of like the baseball player who hits .300 with 30 homers but they all come when his the game is already a foregone conclusion (win or loss) but when there is a man on first and second and the game is tied in the late innings he always grounds into the inning ending double play. 
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#65
Posted: 8/19/2012 7:18:22 AM

@ Mattbrot

but when there is a man on first and second and the game is tied in the late innings he always grounds into the inning ending double play.

which stat  do you think is hard to prove?

he has been the youngest and fastest to each mark...just google it....he came into NBA scoring buckets right away....at age 18.

LeBron becomes fastest to 15,000 - NBA News | FOX Sports on MSN

msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/lebron-becomes-fastest-to-15...

Lebron james becomes the youngest player to reach 17,000 Pts ...

www.nba.com/2010/news/03/19/lebron.milestone.ap/index.html

LeBron James is youngest to reach 15,000-point mark - ESPN

NBA.com: LeBron becomes youngest to score 15,000 points

sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5011686

Thr narrative that detractors write ....hides this elephant in the room....if he plays kobe years...he will pass kareem abdul jabbar's all time scoring mark.

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#66
Posted: 8/19/2012 7:47:06 AM

Again,  which stat is impossible to prove...here is the source for player rating (PER)   again, the media does not talk about this.....but would rather us fans debate what is clutch....which is measured how?    clutch is very subjective....but here is the source for ALL TIME PER...efficiency....we all know LBJ has been the highest rated and most effiicient....player in NBA over his current peers for years...it ain't close folks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Player_Efficiency_Rating

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#67
Posted: 8/19/2012 7:49:04 AM

The Player efficiency rating (PER) is an all-in-one basketball rating, which attempts to boil down all of a player's contributions into one number. 

Career PER leaders ( efficiency leaders)

Rank Player PER
1. Michael Jordan* 27.91
2. LeBron James^ 27.24
3. Shaquille O'Neal 26.43
4. David Robinson* 26.18
5. Wilt Chamberlain* 26.13
6. Dwyane Wade^ 25.70
7. Bob Pettit* 25.37
8. Tim Duncan^ 25.02
9. Neil Johnston* 24.72
10. Charles Barkley* 24.63
11. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 24.58
12. Magic Johnson* 24.11
13. Karl Malone* 23.90
14. Dirk Nowitzki^ 23.76
15. Kevin Garnett^ 23.59
16. Hakeem Olajuwon* 23.59
17. Kobe Bryant^ 23.50
18. Larry Bird* 23.50
19. Oscar Robertson* 23.17
20. Yao Ming 23.04
21. Jerry West* 22.90
22. Tracy McGrady^ 22.81
23. Elgin Baylor* 22.70
24. Amare Stoudemire^ 22.57
25. Moses Malone* 22.31
26. Julius Erving* 21.97
27. Dolph Schayes* 21.96
28. Pau Gasol^ 21.89
29. John Stockton* 21.83
30. Elton Brand^ 21.80
31. George Gervin* 21.74
32. Dwight Howard^ 21.69
33. Bob Lanier* 21.69
34. Clyde Lovellette* 21.67
35. Manu Ginobili^ 21.65
36. Dominique Wilkins* 21.56
37. Adrian Dantley* 21.51
38. Harry Gallatin* 21.49
39. Chris Bosh^ 21.28
40. Alonzo Mourning 21.24
41. Arvydas Sabonis* 21.20
42. Vince Carter^ 21.09
43. Clyde Drexler* 21.07
44. Patrick Ewing* 21.01
45. Dan Issel* 20.99
46. Chris Webber 20.94
47. Allen Iverson 20.92
48. Carlos Boozer^ 20.81
49. Paul Pierce^ 20.80

 

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#68
Posted: 8/19/2012 7:56:29 AM

http://miasportsguy.com/heat/lebrons-efficiency-is-reaching-absurdity/

LeBron’s Efficiency is Reaching Absurdity

His accomplishments are being printed but not priased...so they become an elephant in the room that folks will not realize until ......well until his career is over

I (in my opinion) see the elephant coming in the room but everyone else is "ignoring it"

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#69
Posted: 8/19/2012 8:01:35 AM

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1097832-why-lebron-james-is-having-the-most-efficient-season-in-nba-history

LeBron James: Why the Heat's Star Is Having the Most Efficient Season in History

again, the articles are out there......but the "clutch"....subjective narrative "hard to measure" crap is out there more.

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#70
Posted: 8/19/2012 8:14:53 AM

PER Diem: March 25, 2009

Want further proof that LeBron is the MVP? Here's a new rating system: Value Added

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=PERDiem-090325

The articles are everywhere......which stat or comment did I post - that was empty or hard to prove?

Oh,  before the hate responses come -- and I know they are coming   I am only providing some of the links I have read over time about LBJ........media covers the guy b/c they see this ridiculous stuff this guy is doing that his peers are not doing.........but they do the fans a disservice when they keep talking about clutch and then not tell you how to measure it.

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#71
Posted: 8/19/2012 8:46:42 AM

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/per_top_10.html

NBA & ABA Yearly Top 10 Leaders and Records for Player Efficiency Rating

this is from the 1950's all the way up to last season....and lists the top 10 for each season in player efficiency and I think there is a correlation between this stat and who is the best player in the nba as well as who may (OR SHOULD HAVE BEEN) the MVP that season.

My review of this link showed these NBA Players as having the best single season "efficiency" marks of all time

Lebron 31.67...30.74.....31.11...

Jordan  31.63.....31.19......31.14....31.71   (wow!!)

Wilt    31.64....31.84....31.76

***  Lebron has three of the top five highest rated seasons of all time.   ***

   I had a typo in my earlier post - I thought I had read somewhere he had five of the top rated seasons of all time

But my point is.....the way he plays if he keeps playing the way he does -- he probably will bump some of those MJ and Wilt marks from the top 10 of all time.

Again, what numbers can't be backed up?

Finally, there are articles that actually debunk the "clutch" stuff.....'your men left on base analogy"......but to me the clutch stuff is so/too subjective.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/per_top_10.html

 

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#72
Posted: 8/19/2012 8:59:58 AM

Don't read into these posts as trying to "one-up" someone.....or as arguing........it is a debate

And sharing information.

To me the media covers the guy b/c they see this and trust me (MUCH MORE).....but the media also wrote articles about a GAME here vs Boston and a GAME or TWO/THREE vs Dallas

wierd, that everyone wants to cherry pick games vs what has been an extraordinary career to-date.....and I think will put him (even without rings) as top SF to ever play the game and comparisons to the other all time GOAT (mj)

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#73
Posted: 8/19/2012 9:23:42 AM
@ct1016

Don't get caught up in mattbrot's posts. He gets his jollies by posting silly comments just to get a rise out of people. That's his modus operandi. Lame.

He doesn't truly believe anything he posts in the NBA forum. 

Just don't respond. Or just reply "word". That is apparently mattbrot's uber-cool catchphrase.


Word.
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#74
Posted: 8/19/2012 9:24:56 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LeBron_James

2008–09 season

In the 2008–09 season, James established himself as one of the NBA's top defensive players. Behind 23 chase-down blocks and a career-high 93 total blocks, he finished second in Defensive Player of the Year voting and made his first All-Defensive Team.[62][63] His all-around game was also as strong as ever as he improved his free throw shooting to a career-high 78 percent and made a league-leading 594 free throws.[64] He was named NBA Player of the Month four times, becoming the second player in league history after Kevin Garnett to do so.[65] He also became the fourth player in NBA history to lead his team in all five major statistical categories (total points, rebounds, assists, steals and blocks) in one season

I forgot to post my source for the information I had previously posted about leading cavs in every statistical category....see wikipedia  plus there are articles.....

wierd thing about that accomplishment is that last year he led the heat in every statistical category except blocks in both the REGULAR SEASON AND POST SEASON

http://espn.go.com/nba/team/stats/_/name/mia/miami-heat

http://espn.go.com/nba/team/stats/_/name/mia/seasontype/2/miami-heat

What player in NBA history did that or does that on a regular basis     and then on top of that is PLAYING DEFENSE?

I understand what folks are trying to say when they post the whole "clutch crap"    but the narrative I have been reading and following and    yes, my opinion......see where this is heading.....just makes me think their is an anti-LBJ narrative out there that is ignoring what this man is doing - which to me, we just have not seen before going across all stats like this

 

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ct1016
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#75
Posted: 8/19/2012 9:26:53 AM

@ mellow

Thanks and I just posted my last one.

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