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Author: [Food & Fitness] Topic: Its not red meat that clogs yours arteries, its carbohydrates
cd329 send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook |
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#26
Posted: 3/19/2012 2:35:38 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by FriedShrimp:

You missed the entire point.

Wow



Shrimp, i didnt miss anything. Am trying to figure out which side is really telling the truth. One day am reading that carbs is the way to go and then the next day its meat. Both sides are battling each other. So who is lying or stretching the truth.
Like the second question i asked, if you guys are eating alot of red meat, is your cholesterol real high? Because i have read 2 differnt theories on that subject. I have read where high cholesterol doesnt really matter and then i have read where it really does matter. Am not a doctor, scientist, researcher etc etc, so how am i supposed to really know which side is right.
So to say i missed the point, is just wrong shrimp. I just dont know the answer.
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#27
Posted: 3/19/2012 12:20:35 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by cd329:



Shrimp, i didnt miss anything. Am trying to figure out which side is really telling the truth. One day am reading that carbs is the way to go and then the next day its meat. Both sides are battling each other. So who is lying or stretching the truth.
Like the second question i asked, if you guys are eating alot of red meat, is your cholesterol real high? Because i have read 2 differnt theories on that subject. I have read where high cholesterol doesnt really matter and then i have read where it really does matter. Am not a doctor, scientist, researcher etc etc, so how am i supposed to really know which side is right.
So to say i missed the point, is just wrong shrimp. I just dont know the answer.


like everything else in this world, conduct your own scientific experiment

go 30 days eating nothing but animal proteins and fat mixed with fruit, nuts, and veggies. Stay as close to zero as possible with carbs, only allow carbs from veggies and try and keep fruit intake very low. veggies are fiberous and the fiber content kinda nullifies the carbs

then the next 30 days, eat the so called 'vegetarian' diet. no meat, no animals/animal fats. Eat six servings a day of breads and grains, a bunch of fruits and veggies, and make sure to keep carb intake >150 gs per day

i bet you will be fairly certain of what works for you, after that
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#28
Posted: 3/19/2012 1:13:54 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by ClubDirt:



added bonus, you can incorporate all of the food "information" into your "everything is a lie" thread. 

i'm still trying to get my wife onboard.  she no longer buyt hat pseudo butter garbage but she's still afraid to use much real butter.  things like that.  it's a process.


Club-

I usually use smart balance light (unless I'm baking) and even then, I don't use that much.  I cook mainly with olive oil.  I know margarine is terrible, but what about smart balance?  It does say it contains olive oil and omega 3's, but I don't know who to believe these days.  

I am going to try and lower my carb intake.  I try and eat more complex carbs, but I still can't rid myself of my pasta craving.

For some reason, I just don't feel right when I don't eat at least some carbs.  Anyone know how to combat this?  
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#29
Posted: 3/19/2012 1:48:34 PM
Hutch, you've just got to do it. Find things to replace what u usually eat now. At first, you ask yourself what the hell else is there to eat if I'm not eating carbs? You start to realize, however, just how much great food is still available to you. Just takes determination, and will power.

Best of luck
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#30
Posted: 3/19/2012 3:04:05 PM
hutch, i'm not familiar with smart balance.  maybe you can post the ingredients so we can take a look.  i'm skeptical if it uses artificial ingredints though.  i like to use real butter .  of course, olive oil is good too. 
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#31
Posted: 3/19/2012 10:37:50 PM
QUOTE

Originally Posted by ShootDaClubUp:

Theres so many conflicting articles and books nowadys you dont know what to believe anymore , one day carbs are bad for you another its meat that is bad for you , you dont know who or what to believe i sure as hell dont so please enlighten me when you guys definately figure it out

Of course carbs are bad. People ate meat, nuts, fruit and veggies for centuries and lived and were more healthy than todays society. The 50s/60s introduced fast food and the obesity epidimic has swiftly followed. Its a no brainer. Chicken breast and spinach vs taco bell.....what do you think is healthier?

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#32
Posted: 3/20/2012 12:46:03 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by TRAIN69:

Of course carbs are bad. People ate meat, nuts, fruit and veggies for centuries and lived and were more healthy than todays society. The 50s/60s introduced fast food and the obesity epidimic has swiftly followed. Its a no brainer. Chicken breast and spinach vs taco bell.....what do you think is healthier?



Thats not true. I believe the average age for dying was under 40
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#33
Posted: 3/20/2012 12:47:12 AM
Okay granted you probably will lose more weight eating meats, instead of carbs. But which one is more healthy for you long term.
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#34
Posted: 3/20/2012 6:39:02 PM
QUOTE

Originally Posted by cd329:



Thats not true. I believe the average age for dying was under 40

Yep. They didnt have hospitals or medicine,  readily available hot water or fire, suitable living conditions.....on and on

 

Come on.

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#35
Posted: 3/20/2012 8:49:55 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by HutchEmAll:


Club-

I usually use smart balance light (unless I'm baking) and even then, I don't use that much.  I cook mainly with olive oil.  I know margarine is terrible, but what about smart balance?  It does say it contains olive oil and omega 3's, but I don't know who to believe these days.  

I am going to try and lower my carb intake.  I try and eat more complex carbs, but I still can't rid myself of my pasta craving.

For some reason, I just don't feel right when I don't eat at least some carbs.  Anyone know how to combat this?  

 You just have to adjust to it. I'm the same way........I can get away w/o carbs (I luv pasta too but eat it w/o sauce) for a while but then get shakey & light-headed so I'll eat a little pasta. I try to munch on veggies to get a little but sometimes it just not enough. But eventually I feel OK with minimal carbs.  My theory is the body adjusts to minimal carbs & starts to reach for fat for energy.........but it's a fine line........don't want it to burn any muscle.  After you've gotten down to where you wanna be you take more in.....as long as you stay active. 
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#36
Posted: 3/20/2012 9:26:25 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by THEMUGG:


 You just have to adjust to it. I'm the same way........I can get away w/o carbs (I luv pasta too but eat it w/o sauce) for a while but then get shakey & light-headed so I'll eat a little pasta. I try to munch on veggies to get a little but sometimes it just not enough. But eventually I feel OK with minimal carbs.  My theory is the body adjusts to minimal carbs & starts to reach for fat for energy.........but it's a fine line........don't want it to burn any muscle After you've gotten down to where you wanna be you take more in.....as long as you stay active. 


"Eighty percent of your ability to achieve body composition goals is determined by your diet- essentially, your ability to moderate insulin production so you can access and burn stored body fat for energy, while preserving or building muscle. Insulin in an important hormone that transports nutrients into cells for storage. When the delicate insulin balance is abused by habitually consuming too many carbs, cells become insulin resistant; more fat is stored and it becomes increasingly difficult to burn. This sets the stage for the development of serious conditions like Metabolic Syndrome, type 2 diabetes, and heart disease. Synthesis of testosterone and human growth hormone are hindered by excessive insulin production, creating an artificially accelerated aging process. There are also serious immediate drawbacks to consuming high-carb snacks and meals. the sugar-high insulin-release response cycle causes problems with fatigue, mental focus, mood swings, and jitters, resulting in similar conditions to burnout."

Carbohydrates control insulin, and insulin controls fat storage.

The reason for being lightheaded, Ketosis. "If the diet is changed from a highly glycemic diet to a diet that does not provide sufficient carbohydrate to replenish glycogen stores, the body goes through a set of stages to enter ketosis. During the initial stages of this process, blood glucose levels are maintained through gluconeogenesis, and the adult brain does not burn ketones. However, the brain makes immediate use of ketones for lipid synthesis in the brain. After about 48 hours of this process, the brain starts burning ketones in order to more directly use the energy from the fat stores that are being depended upon, and to reserve the glucose only for its absolute needs, thus avoiding the depletion of the body's protein store in the muscles"

The anti-ketosis conclusions have been challenged by a number of doctors and advocates of low-carbohydrate diets, who dispute assertions that the body has a preference for glucose and that there are dangers associated with ketosis.[16][17][18] It has been argued that the Inuit lived for thousands of years on a diet that would have been ketogenic, and there are many documented cases of modern humans living in these societies for extended periods of time.[weasel words][by whom?] On the other hand, it is speculated by Nick Lane [19] that the Inuit may have a genetic predisposition allowing them to healthfully eat a ketogenic diet. According to this view, such an evolutionary adaptation would have been caused by environmental stresses.[20] While it is believed that carbohydrate intake after exercise is the most effective way of replacing depleted glycogen stores,[21][22] studies have shown that, after a period of 2–4 weeks of adaptation, physical endurance (as opposed to physical intensity) is unaffected by ketosis, as long as the diet contains high amounts of fat."


There is so much garbage out there

This is the garbage that I feel is true, however.
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#37
Posted: 3/21/2012 6:44:26 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by cd329:



Thats not true. I believe the average age for dying was under 40


close

Life Expectancy in America

1950     68.2
1960     69.7
2010     78.7


"factor that in for inflation" (quality of life in '50/'60/'10) AND technological advances that have led to things being safer

Ever visited/volunteered/worked at a nursing home



like everything else in this world, conduct your own scientific experiment

go 30 days eating nothing but animal proteins and fat mixed with fruit, nuts, and veggies. Stay as close to zero as possible with carbs, only allow carbs from veggies and try and keep fruit intake very low. veggies are fiberous and the fiber content kinda nullifies the carbs

then the next 30 days, eat the so called 'vegetarian' diet. no meat, no animals/animal fats. Eat six servings a day of breads and grains, a bunch of fruits and veggies, and make sure to keep carb intake >150 gs per day

i bet you will be fairly certain of what works for you, after that


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#38
Posted: 3/22/2012 1:31:53 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by ClubDirt:

here's another one.  i didn't have time to read it, i figured i'd post it and come back later.

Club-- This study is so flawed that it is not even worth talking about. Contains no causality and uses all confirmation bias.  Pure garbage, ignore it.
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#39
Posted: 3/22/2012 1:42:10 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by cd329:

With all the meat you guys are eating, isnt your cholesterol thru the roof?

Yes our total cholesterol will be higher but in a good way. Our HDL (high density lipoprotein)  will increase, triglycerides will go down, and VLDL (very low density lipoprotein) will go down. Total cholesterol is a meaningless number, people with higher total cholesterol get less heart attacks than people with lower total cholesterol. A test called the Vertical Auto Profile test or VAP test determines whether your LDL particles are of the large and fluffy variety,  or small and dense variety. If they are of the large and fluffy variety then you have no reason to worry about a higher total cholesterol number. Its the small and dense particles which  stick to the walls of arteries and over time cause blockages which then cause heart attacks and strokes.  If HDL is higher than 40 and Triglycerides are less than 150, the particles on the LDL are likely the large and fluffy variety so even if the total number is high the person is healthy.
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#40
Posted: 3/22/2012 1:52:30 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by be easy:



close

Life Expectancy in America

1950     68.2
1960     69.7
2010     78.7


"factor that in for inflation" (quality of life in '50/'60/'10) AND technological advances that have led to things being safer

Ever visited/volunteered/worked at a nursing home



like everything else in this world, conduct your own scientific experiment

go 30 days eating nothing but animal proteins and fat mixed with fruit, nuts, and veggies. Stay as close to zero as possible with carbs, only allow carbs from veggies and try and keep fruit intake very low. veggies are fiberous and the fiber content kinda nullifies the carbs

then the next 30 days, eat the so called 'vegetarian' diet. no meat, no animals/animal fats. Eat six servings a day of breads and grains, a bunch of fruits and veggies, and make sure to keep carb intake >150 gs per day

i bet you will be fairly certain of what works for you, after that




I wasnt talking about those years. I was referring to the centuries ago post and what the life span of people back then were.
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#41
Posted: 3/22/2012 1:59:31 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by sharpaction:


Yes our total cholesterol will be higher but in a good way. Our HDL (high density lipoprotein)  will increase, triglycerides will go down, and VLDL (very low density lipoprotein) will go down. Total cholesterol is a meaningless number, people with higher total cholesterol get less heart attacks than people with lower total cholesterol. A test called the Vertical Auto Profile test or VAP test determines whether your LDL particles are of the large and fluffy variety,  or small and dense variety. If they are of the large and fluffy variety then you have no reason to worry about a higher total cholesterol number. Its the small and dense particles which  stick to the walls of arteries and over time cause blockages which then cause heart attacks and strokes.  If HDL is higher than 40 and Triglycerides are less than 150, the particles on the LDL are likely the large and fluffy variety so even if the total number is high the person is healthy.


my damn numbers are so bad.
total choles =165
hdl =28
ldl=89
vldl =83
triglycerides= 417

am basically fucked with those numbers and thats with taking lipitor and tricor and omega 3

My diabetes is real high and doc wants me to take shots, but i have been buying every supplement known to help lower blood sugars and none are working.
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#42
Posted: 3/22/2012 2:33:12 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by HutchEmAll:


Club-

I usually use smart balance light (unless I'm baking) and even then, I don't use that much.  I cook mainly with olive oil.  I know margarine is terrible, but what about smart balance?  It does say it contains olive oil and omega 3's, but I don't know who to believe these days.  

I am going to try and lower my carb intake.  I try and eat more complex carbs, but I still can't rid myself of my pasta craving.

For some reason, I just don't feel right when I don't eat at least some carbs.  Anyone know how to combat this?  

Almost all breads contain sugar and are nutritionally weak so I would cut it out of your diet or reduce it significantly.

The reason you don't feel right when you don't eat carbs is because your body is used to burning glucose instead of fat. When your body needs energy, your blood sugar will go down then your body will scream at you for glucose making you reach for that plate of pasta or bowl of rice. When you cut out or reduce things like pasta, bread, potatoes and rice and eat more fat in your diet, your body will become more efficient at using fat for fuel instead of glucose. Carbs raise blood sugar quickly when they are absorbed by the body. The pancreas releases insulin to quickly combat the excess sugar and whatever is not needed will be converted to glycogen and stored in fat cells. When your blood sugar goes back down you feel like you need energy again so you eat more carbs to gain energy. Fat is more of a consistent and stable energy provider. There are no blood sugar roller coasters, your blood sugar will remain stable. In this case the liver converts fat into fatty acids and ketone bodies which replace glucose as an energy source.

My suggestion would be to try and eat between 50-75 grams of carb a day. Use butter or coconut oil when cooking.  Eat foods that will keep you satiated  while providing you with a high source of vitamins and minerals. Some suggestions would be medium or lean ground beef, rib eye steaks, rib's , eggs, avocado's, cheese, heavy cream. These foods should be consumed until you are full, don't worry about portions. You can eat vegetables as most of them are low in carb. The ones which are high in carb include carrots, potatoes, beets, peas, parsnips, corn, avoid these. If you eat pasta or rice then make sure it makes up the smallest portion on your plate. Drink mostly water and avoid soda and juices.  

To reiterate what be easy mentioned earlier, the best thing to do is conduct a self experiment. When you drastically lower carbohydrate consumption  you will feel a bit weak for the first few days because your body is getting used to burning fat instead of glucose. The weakness will pass in about a week then you will notice that you have way more energy than before and the carb cravings will be reduced drastically and you won't feel the need to snack in between meals. 
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#43
Posted: 3/22/2012 2:43:20 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by cd329:



my damn numbers are so bad.
total choles =165
hdl =28
ldl=89
vldl =83
triglycerides= 417

am basically fucked with those numbers and thats with taking lipitor and tricor and omega 3

My diabetes is real high and doc wants me to take shots, but i have been buying every supplement known to help lower blood sugars and none are working.
 

Your HDL is too low and triglycerides too high. You need to get off the lipitor , that stuff is terrible for you. I don't think its doing any good. All it is doing is lowering your total cholesterol which has no benefit. What types of food make up your regular diet ? Have you tried a ketogenic diet ?
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#44
Posted: 3/22/2012 2:52:34 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by cd329:

Okay granted you probably will lose more weight eating meats, instead of carbs. But which one is more healthy for you long term.

Meat long term is more healthful than Carbs. Remember that no carbohydrate is an essential nutrient in humans. The body can obtain everything it needs to function from fat and protein. Meat keeps your blood sugar stable and does not irritate your bowels like carbs do. 
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#45
Posted: 3/22/2012 10:37:49 AM
Sharp, have you found that you don't retain as much water when on a low carb diet? I drink, basically, only water, but find that I don't retain as much as before. I piss much more frequently now, then before. Anyone else experience this?

Are you a Dr., Sharp?
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#46
Posted: 3/22/2012 11:53:30 AM
this is what the media tells people.

in this article on fox news, it recommends nutritious snacks like low-fat popcorn (god only knows what the ingredients are in that), whole wheat guy, and to eat less high fat cheese (implying low fat cheese is better).
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#47
Posted: 3/22/2012 1:53:10 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by squinta1:

Sharp, have you found that you don't retain as much water when on a low carb diet? I drink, basically, only water, but find that I don't retain as much as before. I piss much more frequently now, then before. Anyone else experience this?

Are you a Dr., Sharp?

With increased carb consumption the body is forced to produce more insulin which causes the kidney's to retain salt and water. This is why many people will feel like they have gained a few pounds and will feel bloated after a high carb meal. It is the amount of carbs  in the meal not the type.  

Each carb molecule binds 4 water molecules to itself for processing which is why consuming large amounts of it gives you a temporary water gain. When you reduce or stop eating carbs the body releases water it doesen't need to process proteins and fat. This is the reason why low carb diet plans produce a diuretic effect in the first 2-3 weeks.

I am not a doctor. I have read many books, studies and articles on nutrition.  
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#48
Posted: 3/22/2012 2:12:58 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by ClubDirt:

this is what the media tells people.

in this article on fox news, it recommends nutritious snacks like low-fat popcorn (god only knows what the ingredients are in that), whole wheat guy, and to eat less high fat cheese (implying low fat cheese is better).

This is a terrible article. The low fat versions of these products are worse than the original. If you read the ingredients the list is long and contains all of kinds of things we have never heard of and can't pronounce.

  The small plate-make meals look bigger paragraph is just silly. The point of eating is to fuel your body and become satiated, this might take two 12 inch plates or one 10 inch plate to accomplish depending on various factors. You shouldn't have to keep track of calories if you are eating the right foods. The type of calorie is way more important than the amount.  Why not go further and use 8 inch or 6 inch plates. We'll eat less and lose more weight according to this article. The reality is that many will switch to eating low fat cheese or popcorn after reading an article like this. Then after following it for a while they will still have not lost any weight or would have lost some weight and gained it all back and then wonder why even though they followed all of the advice given in the article. 

 
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#49
Posted: 3/22/2012 2:23:07 PM
Couple questions if you got time sharp.

What fruits should I avoid. I love apples and strawberries and putting blueberries and cherries in my protein shakes. Are there certain meats I should eat more than others (ie more chicken than beef or tuna) .Also, whats your take on oatmeal?

If I work out 1st thing in the morning, should I eat a small breakfast or just start working out? Will the body have to immediately go to its reserves since nothing new has been added in 12 or so hours? Also, I have found that if I do 10 minutes of high intenisty cardio followed by 10 minutes of weight lifting and repeating cycle I lose more weight than simply doing cardio for 30 minutes to warm up then lift weights and finish with cardio. Is there anything I could be doing different to lose more weight or speed up my metabolism?

Thanks sharp, enjoy reading your stuff.
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#50
Posted: 3/22/2012 2:48:15 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by sharpaction:


This is a terrible article. The low fat versions of these products are worse than the original. If you read the ingredients the list is long and contains all of kinds of things we have never heard of and can't pronounce.

  The small plate-make meals look bigger paragraph is just silly. The point of eating is to fuel your body and become satiated, this might take two 12 inch plates or one 10 inch plate to accomplish depending on various factors. You shouldn't have to keep track of calories if you are eating the right foods. The type of calorie is way more important than the amount.  Why not go further and use 8 inch or 6 inch plates. We'll eat less and lose more weight according to this article. The reality is that many will switch to eating low fat cheese or popcorn after reading an article like this. Then after following it for a while they will still have not lost any weight or would have lost some weight and gained it all back and then wonder why even though they followed all of the advice given in the article. 

 


when you think about years and years of evolution and how humans ate for optimal energy and health to get to where we are today, today's recommendations are nuts.  we are going backwards. 

as for the artificially lowfat products, i bet if you asked 100 random people, well over half would disagree with this:  The low fat versions of these products are worse than the original.

and it's more than just a weight issue.  if you take a food item that has a natural fat content and remove the fat, they have to put something artificial in to replace the fat.  why would we assume some artificial, engineered product is better for us than the fat that is naturally in the food.

i thought about this the other day.  i take my kids to get a treat when they do well in school.  usually that means frozen yogurt.  but that's all advertised as fat free.  dessert isn't healthy but i'll go with my kids every now and then.  i assume we're better off just going straight for the ice cream rather than messing around with fat free frozen yogurt made out of who knows what.
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