My two safe plays for Saturday are Rory MacDonald and Ben Henderson. I like some of the under card fights but not as much as these two. I like Gustafsson as much as the next guy but why risk your money when there's a realistic chance Shogun lands a knock out? Yeah he gassed against Vera but his hands are bricks. It's enough of a risk that I'll stay away.
Rory is faster, stronger, younger, longer, and has a more dynamic attack. Everybody likes Penn's boxing and it seems that people seem to give him some kind of edge in the stand up. Not sure what people are smoking here. Rory has good striking and a 6.5 inch reach advantage. Anyone can knock out anyone, Cung Le can hit Franklin with a short shot and put him out cold... but is that what you want to bank on?
The more likely situation is that Rory stays out of the small pocket of range that BJ has to hit him hard. Rory mixes up his strikes and has good movement. His youth and conditioning guarantee he has the edge in head and foot movement. When was the last time BJ knocked someone cold before Hughes? Rory has the advantage standing in every way but close/mid range boxing. This standing advantage translates to what will be a dominate ground performance for Rory.
Rory will have his way with BJ in a GSP like fashion when it comes to take downs. The young dynamo mixes up strikes, feints, changes levels, executes good foot work, and shoots at the right times. Once BJ is on his back he has no chance. People like to bring up BJ's jits pedigree but when is the last time he submitted someone with it? When was the last time he got a sub off his back in MMA?
I don't question BJ's jits, he's a beast, but it's not reasonable to expect him to pull out a sub off his back when a bigger and stronger wrestler is on top smothering you. A legend like BJ coming back from retirement to fight a young gunner like Rory IS a big statement. To me it DOES show that he's game and ready to take things seriously, but it's just too late. We've always known BJ to be lazy, an ambitious and motivated Rory MacDonald is a terrible match up for BJ's return. Rory scores the TKO and at the very worst takes a one sided unanimous decision.
For the main event we have Diaz as the longer fighter with three inches in height and six inches in reach. The problem here is Diaz's lack of power. Diaz's pitter patter boxing style could earn him a decision if Benson had to be cautious of a KO. The truth is he doesn't, and he moves in/out of the pocket with amazing speed. Taking a shot or two to get in and land one of your own is typically a losing affair. This time it should get Henderson the W.
Henderson has a diverse set of attacks. That isn't to say Diaz doesn't, he could throw kicks and mix things up if he wanted to, but he won't. Both men will fight intelligently and maintain good movement around the cage, but every exchange will be in Henderson's favor - that is at least in terms of damage. That may not be an issue off the bat and Diaz might look good at first, but it will surely catch up to Diaz in a 5 round war.
On the ground Diaz has absolutely slick submissions and a lethal guillotine to boot. It won't be surprising if Henderson elects to keep the fight standing to avoid Nate's ground game, and HE will be the one that dictates if the fight stands or lays. If it does go to the ground however I still see Benson having the advantage. This isn't a BJJ match, this is MMA, and a dominate powerful wrestler like Henderson is no fun. Henderson will be able to maintain top control and smother Diaz. He clearly won't have his way with transitions but will be able to pin Nate down and get some G and P in if he wants to. More importantly however Benson will have an easy time standing back up if he's on the ground, and that is absolutely huge.
Expect a unanimous decision as both men are difficult to stop and have excellent conditioning. The UD goes in favor of the stronger and quicker Benson Henderson.
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To remove first post, remove entire topic.
My two safe plays for Saturday are Rory MacDonald and Ben Henderson. I like some of the under card fights but not as much as these two. I like Gustafsson as much as the next guy but why risk your money when there's a realistic chance Shogun lands a knock out? Yeah he gassed against Vera but his hands are bricks. It's enough of a risk that I'll stay away.
Rory is faster, stronger, younger, longer, and has a more dynamic attack. Everybody likes Penn's boxing and it seems that people seem to give him some kind of edge in the stand up. Not sure what people are smoking here. Rory has good striking and a 6.5 inch reach advantage. Anyone can knock out anyone, Cung Le can hit Franklin with a short shot and put him out cold... but is that what you want to bank on?
The more likely situation is that Rory stays out of the small pocket of range that BJ has to hit him hard. Rory mixes up his strikes and has good movement. His youth and conditioning guarantee he has the edge in head and foot movement. When was the last time BJ knocked someone cold before Hughes? Rory has the advantage standing in every way but close/mid range boxing. This standing advantage translates to what will be a dominate ground performance for Rory.
Rory will have his way with BJ in a GSP like fashion when it comes to take downs. The young dynamo mixes up strikes, feints, changes levels, executes good foot work, and shoots at the right times. Once BJ is on his back he has no chance. People like to bring up BJ's jits pedigree but when is the last time he submitted someone with it? When was the last time he got a sub off his back in MMA?
I don't question BJ's jits, he's a beast, but it's not reasonable to expect him to pull out a sub off his back when a bigger and stronger wrestler is on top smothering you. A legend like BJ coming back from retirement to fight a young gunner like Rory IS a big statement. To me it DOES show that he's game and ready to take things seriously, but it's just too late. We've always known BJ to be lazy, an ambitious and motivated Rory MacDonald is a terrible match up for BJ's return. Rory scores the TKO and at the very worst takes a one sided unanimous decision.
For the main event we have Diaz as the longer fighter with three inches in height and six inches in reach. The problem here is Diaz's lack of power. Diaz's pitter patter boxing style could earn him a decision if Benson had to be cautious of a KO. The truth is he doesn't, and he moves in/out of the pocket with amazing speed. Taking a shot or two to get in and land one of your own is typically a losing affair. This time it should get Henderson the W.
Henderson has a diverse set of attacks. That isn't to say Diaz doesn't, he could throw kicks and mix things up if he wanted to, but he won't. Both men will fight intelligently and maintain good movement around the cage, but every exchange will be in Henderson's favor - that is at least in terms of damage. That may not be an issue off the bat and Diaz might look good at first, but it will surely catch up to Diaz in a 5 round war.
On the ground Diaz has absolutely slick submissions and a lethal guillotine to boot. It won't be surprising if Henderson elects to keep the fight standing to avoid Nate's ground game, and HE will be the one that dictates if the fight stands or lays. If it does go to the ground however I still see Benson having the advantage. This isn't a BJJ match, this is MMA, and a dominate powerful wrestler like Henderson is no fun. Henderson will be able to maintain top control and smother Diaz. He clearly won't have his way with transitions but will be able to pin Nate down and get some G and P in if he wants to. More importantly however Benson will have an easy time standing back up if he's on the ground, and that is absolutely huge.
Expect a unanimous decision as both men are difficult to stop and have excellent conditioning. The UD goes in favor of the stronger and quicker Benson Henderson.
Thanks man I appreciate it. I just want to add in also that if Diaz were to somehow get Bendo into a bad position or apply a hold that I strongly believe Henderson will be able to pull right out of it.
I'd love to hear differing opinions but he's just so strong and his grappling defense is elite
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Thanks man I appreciate it. I just want to add in also that if Diaz were to somehow get Bendo into a bad position or apply a hold that I strongly believe Henderson will be able to pull right out of it.
I'd love to hear differing opinions but he's just so strong and his grappling defense is elite
Yeah man not a problem. I also want to preface all this by saying that the only reason I even got into betting was MMA. You'll see picks from me for soccer, gridiron football, basketball, etc etc I love sports in general but MMA is my true passion. In my most recent memory I had successful bets with Johny Hendricks over Kampmann and GSP over Condit. My last loss was picking Franklin over Le (funny I used that example earlier). I'd have to sit and go through all the events to remember my other picks since I've only tracked them starting this week but I've done pretty well for myself with MMA.
Funny I bet on both these guys for their last fights on the same card and made a killing.
You'd be hard pressed to find me pick a welterweight over Fitch who isn't GSP. Now obviously Johny Hendricks changes the division a bit but my point still stands, Fitch is elite at WW and in my eyes has been top 3 in this division the whole time. Fitch was a terrible match for Silva and it blew my mind how hard they backed him after a flash knockout for Fitch. Moving on.
Well all know that styles make match ups and Maia was an absolutely horrible match up for Story. I mean you literally can't pick a better situation for Maia style wise. Story walked right into him as expected and got tapped quick. That won't be the case with Fitch. If Dong Hyum Kim hadn't suffered a muscle spasm I believe he would have smothered Maia for three rounds to victory, does that game plan sound familiar?
I certainly do like Maia a lot more at WW than MW but the competition isn't any easier here. Maia entered the UFC and absolutely murdered the competition with his world class BJJ, but since 2009 has only had one sub, which is that Rick Story neck crank. He's done his best to improve his striking and I actually like the techniques he's picked up while in the UFC. I think for a grappling centric fighter trying to transition into an all around stand up game the best thing you can do is focus on technique, mixing in low kicks, and throwing straight punches. The problem is he's 35 and there just isn't enough time to make Maia a truly well rounded fighter. When his arguably elementary striking fails he runs out of options to set up his take downs.
If you think about it this is kind of a hilarious match up as both fighters stand up games are trashed by experts and fans alike. They're considered boring fighters, and I'm sure casual fans hate seeing either one of them on a main card. Fitch is a true representation of a top American grappler. Like Jake Shields he has elite world class wrestling and has gone on to earn a BJJ black belt. Fitch however (despite public opinion) has always had decent stand up. He has clean techniques and uses his technical striking to keep himself from getting into too many straight up brawls.
Naturally this affords him some good distance and the assortment of strikes leaves opponents vulnerable to his clinches/take downs. These fighters are close in size with Fitch being a little bit longer. I give Fitch the edge in striking as he will do a better job of moving and mixing strikes. If both fighters ground games neutralize each other you can count on a boring point fight that Fitch easily wins by decision.
I give Fitch the grappling advantage as well and Maia the advantage with submissions. The issue is how does Maia get to the ground with Fitch in an advantageous position? As Fitch slowly begins winning the stand up race Maia will want to close the distance both to negate the reach and get the fight on the ground. The clinch is a terrible spot for Maia in this fight. Fitch has the wrestling and will quite literally molest you from the position until he's on top of you. Maia WILL NOT be able to shoot on Fitch and take him down.
So what's left? Pull guard? Fitch has that smothering style on the ground and leaves absolutely no wiggle room for any funny business. The only openings he allows are ones he creates in order to transition. Expect to see these guys going in and out of half guard all day as Fitch struggles to get into side control in this one.
In the end Fitch wins the majority of exchanges standing and dominates the fight on the ground. The same way that we say fighters have a puncher's chance Maia has a submission fighter's chance of slapping on a spectacular hold. Of course that's about as likely as most fighter's long shots to land a single knock out blow.
Fitch by easy decision in this one.
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Yeah man not a problem. I also want to preface all this by saying that the only reason I even got into betting was MMA. You'll see picks from me for soccer, gridiron football, basketball, etc etc I love sports in general but MMA is my true passion. In my most recent memory I had successful bets with Johny Hendricks over Kampmann and GSP over Condit. My last loss was picking Franklin over Le (funny I used that example earlier). I'd have to sit and go through all the events to remember my other picks since I've only tracked them starting this week but I've done pretty well for myself with MMA.
Funny I bet on both these guys for their last fights on the same card and made a killing.
You'd be hard pressed to find me pick a welterweight over Fitch who isn't GSP. Now obviously Johny Hendricks changes the division a bit but my point still stands, Fitch is elite at WW and in my eyes has been top 3 in this division the whole time. Fitch was a terrible match for Silva and it blew my mind how hard they backed him after a flash knockout for Fitch. Moving on.
Well all know that styles make match ups and Maia was an absolutely horrible match up for Story. I mean you literally can't pick a better situation for Maia style wise. Story walked right into him as expected and got tapped quick. That won't be the case with Fitch. If Dong Hyum Kim hadn't suffered a muscle spasm I believe he would have smothered Maia for three rounds to victory, does that game plan sound familiar?
I certainly do like Maia a lot more at WW than MW but the competition isn't any easier here. Maia entered the UFC and absolutely murdered the competition with his world class BJJ, but since 2009 has only had one sub, which is that Rick Story neck crank. He's done his best to improve his striking and I actually like the techniques he's picked up while in the UFC. I think for a grappling centric fighter trying to transition into an all around stand up game the best thing you can do is focus on technique, mixing in low kicks, and throwing straight punches. The problem is he's 35 and there just isn't enough time to make Maia a truly well rounded fighter. When his arguably elementary striking fails he runs out of options to set up his take downs.
If you think about it this is kind of a hilarious match up as both fighters stand up games are trashed by experts and fans alike. They're considered boring fighters, and I'm sure casual fans hate seeing either one of them on a main card. Fitch is a true representation of a top American grappler. Like Jake Shields he has elite world class wrestling and has gone on to earn a BJJ black belt. Fitch however (despite public opinion) has always had decent stand up. He has clean techniques and uses his technical striking to keep himself from getting into too many straight up brawls.
Naturally this affords him some good distance and the assortment of strikes leaves opponents vulnerable to his clinches/take downs. These fighters are close in size with Fitch being a little bit longer. I give Fitch the edge in striking as he will do a better job of moving and mixing strikes. If both fighters ground games neutralize each other you can count on a boring point fight that Fitch easily wins by decision.
I give Fitch the grappling advantage as well and Maia the advantage with submissions. The issue is how does Maia get to the ground with Fitch in an advantageous position? As Fitch slowly begins winning the stand up race Maia will want to close the distance both to negate the reach and get the fight on the ground. The clinch is a terrible spot for Maia in this fight. Fitch has the wrestling and will quite literally molest you from the position until he's on top of you. Maia WILL NOT be able to shoot on Fitch and take him down.
So what's left? Pull guard? Fitch has that smothering style on the ground and leaves absolutely no wiggle room for any funny business. The only openings he allows are ones he creates in order to transition. Expect to see these guys going in and out of half guard all day as Fitch struggles to get into side control in this one.
In the end Fitch wins the majority of exchanges standing and dominates the fight on the ground. The same way that we say fighters have a puncher's chance Maia has a submission fighter's chance of slapping on a spectacular hold. Of course that's about as likely as most fighter's long shots to land a single knock out blow.
While I'm on Rory too, I can't agree that he has "good" striking. I think it's ok. But he mixes in the knees and kicks well.
As far as playing benson large and safe, I expect this fight to be the same as every LW fight in the past few years. Very close and likely a controversial decision. Diaz has over impressed all his recent LW fights. I personally hope to see the same here, compared to a boring, smothering bendo decision.
One further point on Maia Fitch. While you're adamant Maia will not successfully shoot on Fitch, like his striking, he seems to be quite successful in an ugly manner. I actually think he can TD Fitch in his boa constructor style much like he did to story. That said I'm not picking Maia or anyone at this point.
I enjoyed your thread. Good luck. Look forward to more
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Holy smokes that's a lot if detail!
While I'm on Rory too, I can't agree that he has "good" striking. I think it's ok. But he mixes in the knees and kicks well.
As far as playing benson large and safe, I expect this fight to be the same as every LW fight in the past few years. Very close and likely a controversial decision. Diaz has over impressed all his recent LW fights. I personally hope to see the same here, compared to a boring, smothering bendo decision.
One further point on Maia Fitch. While you're adamant Maia will not successfully shoot on Fitch, like his striking, he seems to be quite successful in an ugly manner. I actually think he can TD Fitch in his boa constructor style much like he did to story. That said I'm not picking Maia or anyone at this point.
I enjoyed your thread. Good luck. Look forward to more
Thanks for the kind words kp. Sawman I agree that beating Cerrone and Jim Miller is huge. Miller however is a much smaller fighter than Nate who can comfortably compete with 170 pounders. He's shorter, gives up a ton of reach, and is a bad match up style wise. He has good wrestling/jj but not good enough to dominate top guys, and his striking isn't dynamic enough to beat top strikers either. Although Cerrone/Nate share the same height Diaz has the longer arms and the boxing style to utilize them. Here again I think size made the difference as Cowboy didn't have the entry speed to overcome the length on Diaz's straight punches.
Size won't be a factor for Benson who is a huge light weight and HAS the speed to negate the reach. Miller lacked Henderson's high level of striking. While Cerrone has sick muay thai his game plan was just wrong and he was too aggressive in a bad way. He also lacks Henderson's explosiveness.
Then again I could be wrong, but in my eyes these guys are in separate tiers/categories. I really like the Diaz brothers and the whole Cesar Gracie clan but I don't think Nate will ever be one of the real greats like Bendo.
I couldn't disagree more about Maia's chance to take down Fitch. The only man that's pulling a double leg on Fitch at 170 is GSP. Maybe Hendricks lol. But anything can happen in a fight, I look forward to seeing what happens in February!
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Thanks for the kind words kp. Sawman I agree that beating Cerrone and Jim Miller is huge. Miller however is a much smaller fighter than Nate who can comfortably compete with 170 pounders. He's shorter, gives up a ton of reach, and is a bad match up style wise. He has good wrestling/jj but not good enough to dominate top guys, and his striking isn't dynamic enough to beat top strikers either. Although Cerrone/Nate share the same height Diaz has the longer arms and the boxing style to utilize them. Here again I think size made the difference as Cowboy didn't have the entry speed to overcome the length on Diaz's straight punches.
Size won't be a factor for Benson who is a huge light weight and HAS the speed to negate the reach. Miller lacked Henderson's high level of striking. While Cerrone has sick muay thai his game plan was just wrong and he was too aggressive in a bad way. He also lacks Henderson's explosiveness.
Then again I could be wrong, but in my eyes these guys are in separate tiers/categories. I really like the Diaz brothers and the whole Cesar Gracie clan but I don't think Nate will ever be one of the real greats like Bendo.
I couldn't disagree more about Maia's chance to take down Fitch. The only man that's pulling a double leg on Fitch at 170 is GSP. Maybe Hendricks lol. But anything can happen in a fight, I look forward to seeing what happens in February!
Thanks man I appreciate it. I just want to add in also that if Diaz were to somehow get Bendo into a bad position or apply a hold that I strongly believe Henderson will be able to pull right out of it.
I'd love to hear differing opinions but he's just so strong and his grappling defense is elite
Should be a real good fight. But I don't like betting on Bendo at like -150 because he has only 1 way of winning....a decision via wrestling.
People said Cerrone had some of the best striking in the division and would beat Diaz up on the feet. Instead Diaz schooled his kickboxing (undefeated kickboxer) with his BETTER boxing.
People said Jim Miller could take Diaz down and has the BJJ to stay out of subs. Many picked Miller because of this matchup. Diaz schooled him and sub'd him.
Bendo does have good es-capability from subs. But he gets himself into bad positions often. Look where this sub D stems from...the Cerrone fight. Cerrone is probably the most dangerous sub artist he has faced. Yet Cerrone was terrified to follow Nate to the ground when they fought. Diaz is by far the best Sub finisher Ben has faced. He probably has the best MMA Jitz in that division. If Nate gets in deep vs. Bendo I don't think he is getting out.
I think Bendo's power is overrated. He seems to have power because he throws 90% of his strikes with power. Where as Diaz who knows how to box wins by accumulation. 8 pin point strikes to the face is more effective than 1power shot. Diaz comes across as having little 1 punch power, but he hurts his opponents. For such a powerful guy Bendo has very few striking finishes. Hardly any vs. legit guys. I would say Cerrone is a better striker than Bendo...and he was lit up. Nate's hands are for real.
Bendo certainly has an avenue of winning as he is the wrestler and Nate never does well on the scorecards. But Bendo will be in danger for 5 rounds whether he is standing or on top.
Just my 2 cents. Should be a good fight.
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Quote Originally Posted by JayFurley:
Thanks man I appreciate it. I just want to add in also that if Diaz were to somehow get Bendo into a bad position or apply a hold that I strongly believe Henderson will be able to pull right out of it.
I'd love to hear differing opinions but he's just so strong and his grappling defense is elite
Should be a real good fight. But I don't like betting on Bendo at like -150 because he has only 1 way of winning....a decision via wrestling.
People said Cerrone had some of the best striking in the division and would beat Diaz up on the feet. Instead Diaz schooled his kickboxing (undefeated kickboxer) with his BETTER boxing.
People said Jim Miller could take Diaz down and has the BJJ to stay out of subs. Many picked Miller because of this matchup. Diaz schooled him and sub'd him.
Bendo does have good es-capability from subs. But he gets himself into bad positions often. Look where this sub D stems from...the Cerrone fight. Cerrone is probably the most dangerous sub artist he has faced. Yet Cerrone was terrified to follow Nate to the ground when they fought. Diaz is by far the best Sub finisher Ben has faced. He probably has the best MMA Jitz in that division. If Nate gets in deep vs. Bendo I don't think he is getting out.
I think Bendo's power is overrated. He seems to have power because he throws 90% of his strikes with power. Where as Diaz who knows how to box wins by accumulation. 8 pin point strikes to the face is more effective than 1power shot. Diaz comes across as having little 1 punch power, but he hurts his opponents. For such a powerful guy Bendo has very few striking finishes. Hardly any vs. legit guys. I would say Cerrone is a better striker than Bendo...and he was lit up. Nate's hands are for real.
Bendo certainly has an avenue of winning as he is the wrestler and Nate never does well on the scorecards. But Bendo will be in danger for 5 rounds whether he is standing or on top.
Should be a real good fight. But I don't like betting on Bendo at like -150 because he has only 1 way of winning....a decision via wrestling.
People said Cerrone had some of the best striking in the division and would beat Diaz up on the feet. Instead Diaz schooled his kickboxing (undefeated kickboxer) with his BETTER boxing.
People said Jim Miller could take Diaz down and has the BJJ to stay out of subs. Many picked Miller because of this matchup. Diaz schooled him and sub'd him.
Bendo does have good es-capability from subs. But he gets himself into bad positions often. Look where this sub D stems from...the Cerrone fight. Cerrone is probably the most dangerous sub artist he has faced. Yet Cerrone was terrified to follow Nate to the ground when they fought. Diaz is by far the best Sub finisher Ben has faced. He probably has the best MMA Jitz in that division. If Nate gets in deep vs. Bendo I don't think he is getting out.
I think Bendo's power is overrated. He seems to have power because he throws 90% of his strikes with power. Where as Diaz who knows how to box wins by accumulation. 8 pin point strikes to the face is more effective than 1power shot. Diaz comes across as having little 1 punch power, but he hurts his opponents. For such a powerful guy Bendo has very few striking finishes. Hardly any vs. legit guys. I would say Cerrone is a better striker than Bendo...and he was lit up. Nate's hands are for real.
Bendo certainly has an avenue of winning as he is the wrestler and Nate never does well on the scorecards. But Bendo will be in danger for 5 rounds whether he is standing or on top.
Just my 2 cents. Should be a good fight.
Thanks for the post I definitely appreciate all input and I think you bring up a lot of good points. Cerrone's muay thai kickboxing is definitely top notch and he sure did get worked by Nate. Cerrone however got frustrated and charged in far too aggressively. Obviously this is just conjecture but I'm guessing he started getting butthurt and abandoned his gameplan. Miller is a MUCH smaller fighter than Diaz. Miller is actually a prime example of why Nate is so much better off fighting at 155. At this weight class he will beat plenty of upper tier guys by being the bigger guy. Not saying that's the only reason, but a big reason in conjunction with the fact that he's actually good.
Having power and knocking people out are two different things. It's also going to be way less common to see people getting knocked cold at these lower weight classes. Bendo may not have the stone hands of Maynard but he has a diverse attack, and all those strikes come in fast and hard.
As far as Diaz having the best jits at 155 I'd have to agree. Funny to think just a year ago I would have made a case for Aoki lol but that's irrelevant now. Honestly though and I know this might make me sound crazy but Bendo probably isn't too far off on that list. I respect everyone's opinions and look forward to finding who the better man is on Saturday.
BOL to everyone laying $$$
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Quote Originally Posted by jonnyg4508:
Should be a real good fight. But I don't like betting on Bendo at like -150 because he has only 1 way of winning....a decision via wrestling.
People said Cerrone had some of the best striking in the division and would beat Diaz up on the feet. Instead Diaz schooled his kickboxing (undefeated kickboxer) with his BETTER boxing.
People said Jim Miller could take Diaz down and has the BJJ to stay out of subs. Many picked Miller because of this matchup. Diaz schooled him and sub'd him.
Bendo does have good es-capability from subs. But he gets himself into bad positions often. Look where this sub D stems from...the Cerrone fight. Cerrone is probably the most dangerous sub artist he has faced. Yet Cerrone was terrified to follow Nate to the ground when they fought. Diaz is by far the best Sub finisher Ben has faced. He probably has the best MMA Jitz in that division. If Nate gets in deep vs. Bendo I don't think he is getting out.
I think Bendo's power is overrated. He seems to have power because he throws 90% of his strikes with power. Where as Diaz who knows how to box wins by accumulation. 8 pin point strikes to the face is more effective than 1power shot. Diaz comes across as having little 1 punch power, but he hurts his opponents. For such a powerful guy Bendo has very few striking finishes. Hardly any vs. legit guys. I would say Cerrone is a better striker than Bendo...and he was lit up. Nate's hands are for real.
Bendo certainly has an avenue of winning as he is the wrestler and Nate never does well on the scorecards. But Bendo will be in danger for 5 rounds whether he is standing or on top.
Just my 2 cents. Should be a good fight.
Thanks for the post I definitely appreciate all input and I think you bring up a lot of good points. Cerrone's muay thai kickboxing is definitely top notch and he sure did get worked by Nate. Cerrone however got frustrated and charged in far too aggressively. Obviously this is just conjecture but I'm guessing he started getting butthurt and abandoned his gameplan. Miller is a MUCH smaller fighter than Diaz. Miller is actually a prime example of why Nate is so much better off fighting at 155. At this weight class he will beat plenty of upper tier guys by being the bigger guy. Not saying that's the only reason, but a big reason in conjunction with the fact that he's actually good.
Having power and knocking people out are two different things. It's also going to be way less common to see people getting knocked cold at these lower weight classes. Bendo may not have the stone hands of Maynard but he has a diverse attack, and all those strikes come in fast and hard.
As far as Diaz having the best jits at 155 I'd have to agree. Funny to think just a year ago I would have made a case for Aoki lol but that's irrelevant now. Honestly though and I know this might make me sound crazy but Bendo probably isn't too far off on that list. I respect everyone's opinions and look forward to finding who the better man is on Saturday.
Thanks for the kind words kp. Sawman I agree that beating Cerrone and Jim Miller is huge. Miller however is a much smaller fighter than Nate who can comfortably compete with 170 pounders. He's shorter, gives up a ton of reach, and is a bad match up style wise. He has good wrestling/jj but not good enough to dominate top guys, and his striking isn't dynamic enough to beat top strikers either. Although Cerrone/Nate share the same height Diaz has the longer arms and the boxing style to utilize them. Here again I think size made the difference as Cowboy didn't have the entry speed to overcome the length on Diaz's straight punches.
Size won't be a factor for Benson who is a huge light weight and HAS the speed to negate the reach. Miller lacked Henderson's high level of striking. While Cerrone has sick muay thai his game plan was just wrong and he was too aggressive in a bad way. He also lacks Henderson's explosiveness.
Then again I could be wrong, but in my eyes these guys are in separate tiers/categories. I really like the Diaz brothers and the whole Cesar Gracie clan but I don't think Nate will ever be one of the real greats like Bendo.
I couldn't disagree more about Maia's chance to take down Fitch. The only man that's pulling a double leg on Fitch at 170 is GSP. Maybe Hendricks lol. But anything can happen in a fight, I look forward to seeing what happens in February!
Your analysis on Penn fight is spot on but I feel you are way off on bendo/Diaz in my opinion. You are blinded by what you have seen in these last two Henderson fights vs a MUCH smaller opponent. The roles will be reversed this time around in the size department, sure Bendo in much stronger but in a stand up battle that will mean very little. If he stands with Diaz its game over, yes the "pitter patter" style isn't gonna knock anyone out, but Nate has a lot more behind his punches in this lower weight class than his brother does fighting at a higher weight. Just seeing the faces of guys like Cerrone and Penn after fights with the Diaz brothers will show you how effective the pitter patter style can be. Also you give Bendo's striking far too much credit and calling him an "all time great" already is a bit premature. He is without a doubt the most boring of all the champs in the UFC and hasn't finished a fight in almost 3 years, how is that showcasing "elite level striking". When your most exciting career highlight is when you yourself were kicked in the face, again maybe there is something wrong with your own striking. Don't get me wrong the dude is explosive but his stand up is honestly average at best. His leg kicks are great but Cerrone's are better and Nate still dominated that fight. Henderson's stand up is effective because his cardio and output are amazing but Nate's cardio is just as good if not better and with his pitter patter style I can't see a way that Bendo will be throwing more punches. Henderson's best shot at winning this fight is taking Diaz down and working from on top but that also plays into Diaz' wheelhouse. You talk about how Diaz was a bad matchup for Miller but at 155, the fact is Diaz is a bad matchup for everyone in the division. The last legit striker that Henderson faced that we wasn't taller/bigger than was Pettis and he lost that fight and even his first fight with Cerrone who is a taller fighter was extremely close. Not hating on your analysis just trying to give another side. Good luck with your plays. I think Bendo will try and stand the first round or maybe two and realize he is severely outclassed on the feet vs Nate and rounds 3-5 he will take Nate down and the million dollar question is whether or not Nate will be able to catch him in something. Should be a great fight.
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Quote Originally Posted by JayFurley:
Thanks for the kind words kp. Sawman I agree that beating Cerrone and Jim Miller is huge. Miller however is a much smaller fighter than Nate who can comfortably compete with 170 pounders. He's shorter, gives up a ton of reach, and is a bad match up style wise. He has good wrestling/jj but not good enough to dominate top guys, and his striking isn't dynamic enough to beat top strikers either. Although Cerrone/Nate share the same height Diaz has the longer arms and the boxing style to utilize them. Here again I think size made the difference as Cowboy didn't have the entry speed to overcome the length on Diaz's straight punches.
Size won't be a factor for Benson who is a huge light weight and HAS the speed to negate the reach. Miller lacked Henderson's high level of striking. While Cerrone has sick muay thai his game plan was just wrong and he was too aggressive in a bad way. He also lacks Henderson's explosiveness.
Then again I could be wrong, but in my eyes these guys are in separate tiers/categories. I really like the Diaz brothers and the whole Cesar Gracie clan but I don't think Nate will ever be one of the real greats like Bendo.
I couldn't disagree more about Maia's chance to take down Fitch. The only man that's pulling a double leg on Fitch at 170 is GSP. Maybe Hendricks lol. But anything can happen in a fight, I look forward to seeing what happens in February!
Your analysis on Penn fight is spot on but I feel you are way off on bendo/Diaz in my opinion. You are blinded by what you have seen in these last two Henderson fights vs a MUCH smaller opponent. The roles will be reversed this time around in the size department, sure Bendo in much stronger but in a stand up battle that will mean very little. If he stands with Diaz its game over, yes the "pitter patter" style isn't gonna knock anyone out, but Nate has a lot more behind his punches in this lower weight class than his brother does fighting at a higher weight. Just seeing the faces of guys like Cerrone and Penn after fights with the Diaz brothers will show you how effective the pitter patter style can be. Also you give Bendo's striking far too much credit and calling him an "all time great" already is a bit premature. He is without a doubt the most boring of all the champs in the UFC and hasn't finished a fight in almost 3 years, how is that showcasing "elite level striking". When your most exciting career highlight is when you yourself were kicked in the face, again maybe there is something wrong with your own striking. Don't get me wrong the dude is explosive but his stand up is honestly average at best. His leg kicks are great but Cerrone's are better and Nate still dominated that fight. Henderson's stand up is effective because his cardio and output are amazing but Nate's cardio is just as good if not better and with his pitter patter style I can't see a way that Bendo will be throwing more punches. Henderson's best shot at winning this fight is taking Diaz down and working from on top but that also plays into Diaz' wheelhouse. You talk about how Diaz was a bad matchup for Miller but at 155, the fact is Diaz is a bad matchup for everyone in the division. The last legit striker that Henderson faced that we wasn't taller/bigger than was Pettis and he lost that fight and even his first fight with Cerrone who is a taller fighter was extremely close. Not hating on your analysis just trying to give another side. Good luck with your plays. I think Bendo will try and stand the first round or maybe two and realize he is severely outclassed on the feet vs Nate and rounds 3-5 he will take Nate down and the million dollar question is whether or not Nate will be able to catch him in something. Should be a great fight.
Your analysis on Penn fight is spot on but I feel you are way off on bendo/Diaz in my opinion. You are blinded by what you have seen in these last two Henderson fights vs a MUCH smaller opponent. The roles will be reversed this time around in the size department, sure Bendo in much stronger but in a stand up battle that will mean very little. If he stands with Diaz its game over, yes the "pitter patter" style isn't gonna knock anyone out, but Nate has a lot more behind his punches in this lower weight class than his brother does fighting at a higher weight. Just seeing the faces of guys like Cerrone and Penn after fights with the Diaz brothers will show you how effective the pitter patter style can be. Also you give Bendo's striking far too much credit and calling him an "all time great" already is a bit premature. He is without a doubt the most boring of all the champs in the UFC and hasn't finished a fight in almost 3 years, how is that showcasing "elite level striking". When your most exciting career highlight is when you yourself were kicked in the face, again maybe there is something wrong with your own striking. Don't get me wrong the dude is explosive but his stand up is honestly average at best. His leg kicks are great but Cerrone's are better and Nate still dominated that fight. Henderson's stand up is effective because his cardio and output are amazing but Nate's cardio is just as good if not better and with his pitter patter style I can't see a way that Bendo will be throwing more punches. Henderson's best shot at winning this fight is taking Diaz down and working from on top but that also plays into Diaz' wheelhouse. You talk about how Diaz was a bad matchup for Miller but at 155, the fact is Diaz is a bad matchup for everyone in the division. The last legit striker that Henderson faced that we wasn't taller/bigger than was Pettis and he lost that fight and even his first fight with Cerrone who is a taller fighter was extremely close. Not hating on your analysis just trying to give another side. Good luck with your plays. I think Bendo will try and stand the first round or maybe two and realize he is severely outclassed on the feet vs Nate and rounds 3-5 he will take Nate down and the million dollar question is whether or not Nate will be able to catch him in something. Should be a great fight.
Juiceman thank you for the thoughtful response. I agree that Hendo would be best suited to take the fight to the ground. He moves well on top and will do damage but more importantly he will have the strength and skill to pull out of subs. I think one important aspect of the fight that I neglected to mention was the clinch and time spent against the cage.
I absolutely do not disagree with you that Bendo has a boring style and most of what you said about his striking I agree with but it's also how the fighter utilizes those attacks. Clinch/cage time will be valuable minutes that Bendo burns off the clock. Mix that with holding his own (not even having to win) on the feet and time spent on top on the ground and I see a unanimous decision for Bendo.
I look forward to the fights tomorrow nights and thanks to you guys for posting in this thread! BOL!
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Quote Originally Posted by Gimmmethatjuice:
Your analysis on Penn fight is spot on but I feel you are way off on bendo/Diaz in my opinion. You are blinded by what you have seen in these last two Henderson fights vs a MUCH smaller opponent. The roles will be reversed this time around in the size department, sure Bendo in much stronger but in a stand up battle that will mean very little. If he stands with Diaz its game over, yes the "pitter patter" style isn't gonna knock anyone out, but Nate has a lot more behind his punches in this lower weight class than his brother does fighting at a higher weight. Just seeing the faces of guys like Cerrone and Penn after fights with the Diaz brothers will show you how effective the pitter patter style can be. Also you give Bendo's striking far too much credit and calling him an "all time great" already is a bit premature. He is without a doubt the most boring of all the champs in the UFC and hasn't finished a fight in almost 3 years, how is that showcasing "elite level striking". When your most exciting career highlight is when you yourself were kicked in the face, again maybe there is something wrong with your own striking. Don't get me wrong the dude is explosive but his stand up is honestly average at best. His leg kicks are great but Cerrone's are better and Nate still dominated that fight. Henderson's stand up is effective because his cardio and output are amazing but Nate's cardio is just as good if not better and with his pitter patter style I can't see a way that Bendo will be throwing more punches. Henderson's best shot at winning this fight is taking Diaz down and working from on top but that also plays into Diaz' wheelhouse. You talk about how Diaz was a bad matchup for Miller but at 155, the fact is Diaz is a bad matchup for everyone in the division. The last legit striker that Henderson faced that we wasn't taller/bigger than was Pettis and he lost that fight and even his first fight with Cerrone who is a taller fighter was extremely close. Not hating on your analysis just trying to give another side. Good luck with your plays. I think Bendo will try and stand the first round or maybe two and realize he is severely outclassed on the feet vs Nate and rounds 3-5 he will take Nate down and the million dollar question is whether or not Nate will be able to catch him in something. Should be a great fight.
Juiceman thank you for the thoughtful response. I agree that Hendo would be best suited to take the fight to the ground. He moves well on top and will do damage but more importantly he will have the strength and skill to pull out of subs. I think one important aspect of the fight that I neglected to mention was the clinch and time spent against the cage.
I absolutely do not disagree with you that Bendo has a boring style and most of what you said about his striking I agree with but it's also how the fighter utilizes those attacks. Clinch/cage time will be valuable minutes that Bendo burns off the clock. Mix that with holding his own (not even having to win) on the feet and time spent on top on the ground and I see a unanimous decision for Bendo.
I look forward to the fights tomorrow nights and thanks to you guys for posting in this thread! BOL!
Can't wait for a Condit/MacDonald fight if they make it!!!! Too tough for me to call!
Thanks kp! MMA is one sport I don't look to anybody's opinion for when it comes to betting. I will admit though that this fight more than any other before people got in my head as it seemed there were more Diaz backers than Henderson. Same with BJ. It made me nervous because in my mind these match ups weren't even close but SOOO many people seemed to back a Diaz/BJ finish that I started questioning my own judgment. I won't make that mistake ever again. Obviously I will never ever be perfect in my assessments but I think I'll hit for MMA more often than not and I need to have confidence in myself and my track record with MMA bets.
In the end I took the juice and laid it all on Rory thinking it would be one sided. Fortunately for me it was. I was so happy with my winnings I decided to back off Henderson and just keep the money and play a little NFL tomorrow. Obviously I kinda' regret it but I'm 10-4, up on the week, and made my money tonight.
I'm extremely confident in my assessment of Fitch/Maia and look forward to how that plays out.
As far as a MacDonald/Condit goes I see it being just like their first match up minus the last seven seconds where Rory got KTFO. Expect a one sided affair that Condit loses in all aspects of the fight. Cheers and I hope some of you at least made some $$$ tonight!
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Quote Originally Posted by kiwipride1983:
Nice calls JayFurley!
Can't wait for a Condit/MacDonald fight if they make it!!!! Too tough for me to call!
Thanks kp! MMA is one sport I don't look to anybody's opinion for when it comes to betting. I will admit though that this fight more than any other before people got in my head as it seemed there were more Diaz backers than Henderson. Same with BJ. It made me nervous because in my mind these match ups weren't even close but SOOO many people seemed to back a Diaz/BJ finish that I started questioning my own judgment. I won't make that mistake ever again. Obviously I will never ever be perfect in my assessments but I think I'll hit for MMA more often than not and I need to have confidence in myself and my track record with MMA bets.
In the end I took the juice and laid it all on Rory thinking it would be one sided. Fortunately for me it was. I was so happy with my winnings I decided to back off Henderson and just keep the money and play a little NFL tomorrow. Obviously I kinda' regret it but I'm 10-4, up on the week, and made my money tonight.
I'm extremely confident in my assessment of Fitch/Maia and look forward to how that plays out.
As far as a MacDonald/Condit goes I see it being just like their first match up minus the last seven seconds where Rory got KTFO. Expect a one sided affair that Condit loses in all aspects of the fight. Cheers and I hope some of you at least made some $$$ tonight!
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