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Author: [Politics] Topic: Maybe I'm being too harsh, but...
kaponofor3 send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook |
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#1
Posted: 5/1/2012 10:25:12 AM
Am I wrong in thinking maybe there is something that we could learn from (gasp) China in how we deal with public servants who are guilty of corruption?

Government employees like this dude make me absolutely sick and are a  large reason why my faith in our government is so low:

"In a brazen criminal scheme to defraud taxpayers, one of the highest-ranking officials in the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency is expected to plead guilty Tuesday in federal court to helping embezzle more than $500,000 from the federal government.

Over three years, James Woosley and at least five other ICE employees scammed the agency by fabricating expenses for trips that were never taken and for hotel, rental car and restaurant expenses that did not exist, according to court records.

His son, also named James Woosley, and live-in girlfriend, Lateisha Rollerson -- both ICE employees -- allegedly ran the scam out of the elder Woosley's two Virginia homes.

Here's how it worked, according to court records:

ICE employees traveled to Washington, D.C., on business, but instead of staying at a hotel, they stayed with Woosley. Rollerson allegedly created false receipts from hotels like the local Marriott, while Woosley approved their fraudulent expense reports and charged each employee a kick-back fee for half the amount.

Prosecutors accused Woosley of receiving about $160,000, some of which he used to buy a new house and a boat.

Sources inside ICE tell Fox News the scam represents total breakdown of oversight within the agency, especially given the periodic background checks and financial examinations given to agents working within the sensitive Office of Intelligence."


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#2
Posted: 5/1/2012 10:45:56 AM
I don't even really see this as an issue. Let's say guidelines allowed you to spend $200 day, but you spent only $50...................

Conversely Holder, Obama, Geitner et al...
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#3
Posted: 5/1/2012 11:05:15 AM

I don’t think chicanery will ever disappear.

 

I think man will always try to get away with what he thinks he can.

 

You should see the Massachusetts political landscape.

 

Harsh punishments for adults who are supposed to have the public’s best interest in mind, I believe is appropriate.

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#4
Posted: 5/1/2012 11:38:04 AM
1-2 yrs is not enough imo
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AcerRubrum
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#5
Posted: 5/1/2012 1:16:56 PM
add a zero !!!!!

also a public display for all to see WHO is screwing them!
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#6
Posted: 5/1/2012 3:22:11 PM
"It tells us that the vetting process and the checks and balances, the internal controls at ICE, obviously are inadequate," said Rep. Candice Miller, R-Mich., who sits on the House Committee on Homeland Security.

_______________

A big reason for the financial crisis?  Lack of controls.  Clinton started easing the controls and Bush continued on.  Good ol' free market stepped right in and now we have a giant garbage sandwich.  We are too dumb from an overall standpoint to let the free market govern.  
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#7
Posted: 5/1/2012 3:32:21 PM
Hutch,

The words "free market" and "govern" are not two I use in the same sentence.

Free markets plunder and cheat to gain excess profits, turning any control over to a non-transparent fictional blob is worse than all the government mismanagement put together.

Our nature is what destoys society, free markets or communist or capitalist or any "ist".

True story..
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#8
Posted: 5/1/2012 3:41:10 PM
Our nature is what destoys society, free markets or communist or capitalist or any "ist".

I think there is a ton of truth to this......just over bearing with population, over sized corrupt government etc etc etc

mankind WILL destroy mankind ...just WHEN!!!! 

just cannot keep going w/o major major problems etc..

maybe we are witnessing the beginning of the end of the world as we know it!
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#9
Posted: 5/1/2012 4:34:56 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:

Hutch,

The words "free market" and "govern" are not two I use in the same sentence.

Free markets plunder and cheat to gain excess profits, turning any control over to a non-transparent fictional blob is worse than all the government mismanagement put together.

Our nature is what destoys society, free markets or communist or capitalist or any "ist".

True story..

“Free markets plunder and cheat to gain excess profits”

 

Wow! Free markets use supply and demand to utilize resources most efficiently.

 

Who determines what “excess profits” are?

 

Free markets allow citizens to engage in transactions that result in both parties attaining satisfaction.

 

Capitalism (not crony capitalism) is not a zero sum game.

 

“Free markets plunder and cheat to gain excess profits”

 

I don’t even think Marx would give that credence.

 

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#10
Posted: 5/1/2012 4:39:25 PM
glenda,

Refer to the last part of the message, not just the portion you want to try and nit pick at.

Free markets are a farce, a textbook example of utopian scenarios.

Our nature as humans destroy the farcical concept.


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#11
Posted: 5/1/2012 6:39:19 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:

glenda,

Refer to the last part of the message, not just the portion you want to try and nit pick at.

Free markets are a farce, a textbook example of utopian scenarios.

Our nature as humans destroy the farcical concept.


Wall, the Utopian scenarios have been a dream (an admirable one) of Socialists for thousands of years.

 

IMO, free markets have come the closest to realizing this than any collectivist/socialist programs.

 

I think our nature as humans destroy the concept of collectivism.

 

Man, IMO, will always pursue what’s best for himself.

 

With free markets, IMO, doing so benefits not only the free marketeer, but also the greatest number of people.

 

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#12
Posted: 5/1/2012 7:06:17 PM
The core principal of free markets cannot be maintained on a large scale, thus it is a complete farce, usable only in economic models for discussing concepts.

Transparency.. without it free markets are a farce, fair and reasonable profits do not exist when transparency is gone.

I have no idea why free markets are ever discussed, it makes no sense.
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#13
Posted: 5/1/2012 7:30:44 PM

The core principal of free markets cannot be maintained on a large scale,

 

Could you, time permitting, give me an example of what you mean, Wall?

 

Transparency.. without it free markets are a farce

 

No argument there, brother.

 

“Reasonable profits” is, IMO, a troubling term.

 

It’s up to us to determine what’s reasonable?

 

Ophra’s 250 million (probably more) a year earnings.

 

Carl Pavano, who got mega millions from the Yanks for being on the DL for 5 years.

 

Isn’t  “reasonable” up to the person who’s paying these folks?

 

I have no idea why free markets are ever discussed

 

Are not deliberation and discussion a valued and cherished characteristic of our humanity?

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#14
Posted: 5/1/2012 7:39:04 PM
glennda,

The concept of free markets in its most simple and pure form is where buyer and seller create an exchange where a reasonable service or good is exchanged with a reasonable medium (money, gold, service etc etc).

In the free markets concept both buyer and seller have full, transparent information to make a completely educated decision. There is no hiding or cheating or misleading either party, in order to have a fair "free market" transaction all involved have full information.

This does not exist on any large scale, never in any scale have I ever seen full and clear disclosure of all information. 

Fair profits are not Oprah making 250M or Pavano's contract or current CEO contracts.

One of the great (but non-existent) aspects of free markets is equity..all sides have a fair return, neither is taking advantage of the other, profits are not meant to be excessive..in fact excessive profits are what destroy the most basic concept of Capitalism. Excess profits to one group mean another is being taken advantage of and that cannot create real equilibrium.
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#15
Posted: 5/1/2012 7:48:28 PM
Here is an example of a lack of transparency and excess profits and how it effects equilibrium.

Say current equilibrium of a 5 guys burger and fries is 5 bucks, at 5 bucks both buyer and seller feel the transaction is fair and value is received.. that would be considered equilibrium.

What if it is unknown that 5 Guys uses GMO potatoes that end up causing an increase in cancer, that their veggie oil is made with GMO saturated fats that lead to cancer, obesity and dementia? What if it is found that the beef used to make the burgers are used with mad cow beef or also made with non-organic beef and ends up having a dramatic decrease in mortality rates?

What do you think equilibrium would be if people were given full, transparent information?
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#16
Posted: 5/1/2012 7:48:39 PM

My computer has cut off half your sentences, Wall.

Thanks for the input; If I may, I'll get back to ya.

I think it was Peter Frampton who said: "Thank you....good night." 

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#17
Posted: 5/2/2012 9:40:35 AM

Hello. My screen has cut off some of the ending of your sentences. If I misquote, it’s unintentional.

 

“The concept of free markets in its most simple and pure form is where buyer and seller create an exchange where a reasonable service or good is exchanged.”

 

I’m a little skeptical about the phrase “…where a reasonable service or good is exchanged.”

 

Whether a service is reasonable or not is to be determined by the participating parties, not by you or me, no?

 

“In the free markets concept both buyer and seller have full, transparent information to make a completely educated decision.”

 

I’m not sure that’s correct. Sometimes a buyer does not have full information about the product or service he’s buying. Maybe he or she didn’t do their homework. Didn’t you ever hear of the maxim “buyer beware”?

 

“Fair profits are not Oprah making 250M or Pavano's contract or current CEO contracts.”

 

Right. There is no such thing as “fair profits”. The enormous salaries taken in by Ophra and Pavano (referring to his Yankee contract) are neither fair nor unfair. It’s what their employers though they were worth at that time.

 

If 5 guys knowingly used carcinogens in their food products, word would get out. They’d be sued, and if not made defunct, would certainly suffer from lost customers.

 

However the burger joint who was more conscientious of the quality of their product, more efficient in serving a safe and enjoyable product, would knock 5 Guys out of business. Then, if successful, he’d open more outlets, serving more people and employing more people. For his rewards, I’m sure he’d be called “greedy”.

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#18
Posted: 5/2/2012 10:05:53 AM
full or perfect information is not static, so in theory it can be said to be impossible. If we go into the transaction with this assumption, the best one can do is be fully informed, all things considered

the height of insanity, is those that claim that it is human nature that would defeat 'free markets', and their solution is to inject hierarchial layers of subordination, where one supreme being (a human) is atop the next in the food chain, making decisions for those subordinates. the response that the WSC et al make to requests for a more 'free market', are pretty stupid if you stop and think about the implications for a minute
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#19
Posted: 5/2/2012 11:11:09 AM
be easy, 

I've said many times that my conclusion is that the idea of free markets is a myth and impossible and implausible to exist.

I also have said that the group with the most power and money and the ability to shield their actions are the ones to fear.

I dont fear the government unlike many here, I fear the corporation much more. The corporation has more power, control, intelligence and ability to harm the population vs the government.


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#20
Posted: 5/2/2012 11:41:51 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:

Hutch,

The words "free market" and "govern" are not two I use in the same sentence.

Free markets plunder and cheat to gain excess profits, turning any control over to a non-transparent fictional blob is worse than all the government mismanagement put together.

Our nature is what destoys society, free markets or communist or capitalist or any "ist".

True story..

Agree completely.

I dont fear the government unlike many here, I fear the corporation much more. The corporation has more power, control, intelligence and ability to harm the population vs the government.

I don't fear government, either.  I abhor the waste, though.  

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#21
Posted: 5/2/2012 8:47:13 PM

everything WallStreetCappers is saying is COMMUNISTIC!

 

 

kinda like how he said in that other thread about guns.....

 

HE JUST SAID FREE MARKETS DONT WORK!

 

daddy government is the answer!!!!!!  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 my god..... some people

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#22
Posted: 5/2/2012 11:36:50 PM

What the hell is going on here 


I like how the second a person questions the merits of capitalism and the free market system they are automatically socialists/communists...(Not that there's anything wrong with that) 



Meanwhile Mr. WSC offers a reasoned and rational explanation why the 'free market' is a farce, Team Tea Party goes ape garbage, be easy got himself boxed (), and yet through all of this.. the real comedy lies in the fact that the only one praising 'communism' or any form of it (albeit facetiously) was my man kaponofor3!


Oh brother...! 

(facepalm?)

What in the world has been going on around here lately>? 
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#23
Posted: 5/2/2012 11:40:40 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:

The core principal of free markets cannot be maintained on a large scale, thus it is a complete farce, usable only in economic models for discussing concepts.

Transparency.. without it free markets are a farce, fair and reasonable profits do not exist when transparency is gone.

I have no idea why free markets are ever discussed, it makes no sense.

If we were only so lucky 

Forget discussed... Let's base society and the entire global economic system around it. It's a foolproof plan! 
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#24
Posted: 5/3/2012 2:18:34 AM
team teaparty

thats a new one...

kapono... your China comment is interesting... It is interesting that certain groups of people want stricter sentencing for certain types of crimes but dont seem to get all up in arms with these type of 6 figure white collar crimes...

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