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Author: [Politics] Topic: State of Flordia vs. George Zimmerman ,,Affidavd of probable cause
cashin
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#126
Posted: 4/15/2012 7:31:22 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by bowlslit:

Cashin,

What makes you think he is obligated to identify himself at all? Especially since he was reportedly on his way to the store and not on patrol as a NW captain.

Even if he does have to identify himself, Trayvon never had the right to sucker punch him or start a tussle. Even if he saw his gun in a holster that is nothing that reasonably should make him fear for his life or serious bodily harm. If that were the case anybody could see a gun in sombodys holster and start throwing down on them.

The gun has to be out for there to be a threat.

Didn't say he was obligated to identify himself & we don't know that Trayvon did start the tussle. Only have Z's word for that. But don't you think if he did, he would have said it & it would have been reported as well as what was reported about? Or come from his father or brother like other things have?

Like you say, we don't have all the verified facts but evidently given the 911 call & whatever else they have, the prosecution thinks they have enough for murder in the 2nd degree. And I doubt they took that decision lightly given the magnitude of the case. If they can convince the jury that Z is lying in some area, it would also be easier to sway them on other things. 

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#127
Posted: 4/15/2012 7:51:53 PM

Cashin,

Like Djbrow posted ...

"It is theoretically possible for both Martin and Zimmerman to have obtained the legal right during the encounter to 'stand their ground' making Zimmerman's actions legal under the statute."

So unless there is evidence, that the Special Prosecuter has ..that is unknown to the public .. that can prove beyond a reasonable doubt what happened in that brief struggle.  Both Trayvon and Zimmerman could have a legal right to claim SYG ..but if they don't have evidence to take it any further ,then it's [his word against no ones word ] unfortunately dead men tell no tales...and the last man standing is the only one,that can say what happened..

 

I was attacked and being beat-up,I felt in danger of great bodily harm or even death  ..in self-defense I shot him..

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#128
Posted: 4/15/2012 8:33:52 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by bowlslit:

As Mr Miyagi would say..."Afraid a fax meexed up"

Trayvon's teacher moved to Michigan?

Overzealous is not criminal and many would say they'd rather be safe then sorry. Many people would also say they wan't the neighborhood to be watched.

I wouldn't mind having the cops called on me erroneously if it meant my neighborhood is safer.

You would rather cars get stolen as apposed to a cop checking things out?

Cashin, Crickets on whether or not if your car was being broken into you'd rather someone called the cops or just minded their own business????

For me, I've seen too many episodes of 'Another 48 hours' where many people see who did the shooting but when cops come around asking questions all the sudden 'nobody saw nutin'.

I'd hate to live in that neighborhood. Would you?

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#129
Posted: 4/15/2012 11:15:54 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by bowlslit:

Cashin, Crickets on whether or not if your car was being broken into you'd rather someone called the cops or just minded their own business????

For me, I've seen too many episodes of 'Another 48 hours' where many people see who did the shooting but when cops come around asking questions all the sudden 'nobody saw nutin'.

I'd hate to live in that neighborhood. Would you?

Well, if it's out in the open like that deal was & not late at nite and a watchman had suspicion, I'd rather him just go up to the guys & ask what's goin on & if he could help rather than just call 911 straight away.

I've got nothing against neighborhood watch - can be a really good thing. But in the Martin case, Z called 911 & say what you will, but them telling him "we don't need you to do that" is just a nice way of someone in an official capacity saying, "we don't want you to do that" & Z fucked up being convinced the Martin was up to no good & he was gonna play hero. His duty or job (whether on duty or not) was over after he made the call. Instead, his willful actions ended up costing Martin his life & putting his on trial for murder -

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#130
Posted: 4/16/2012 11:39:56 AM
It's the same arguments over and over on each "side."  No chance to resolve anything until the EVIDENCE is revealed.  It's all a bunch of "what ifs" until that happens.  
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#131
Posted: 4/16/2012 12:29:25 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by cashin:

Well, if it's out in the open like that deal was & not late at nite and a watchman had suspicion, I'd rather him just go up to the guys & ask what's goin on & if he could help rather than just call 911 straight away.

I've got nothing against neighborhood watch - can be a really good thing. But in the Martin case, Z called 911 & say what you will, but them telling him "we don't need you to do that" is just a nice way of someone in an official capacity saying, "we don't want you to do that" & Z fucked up being convinced the Martin was up to no good & he was gonna play hero. His duty or job (whether on duty or not) was over after he made the call. Instead, his willful actions ended up costing Martin his life & putting his on trial for murder -

Cashin,

There was no way for Z to know that merely confronting him would lead to fist to cuffs. Even if it did lead to fist to cuffs. When a person taps out its time to just let it go and stop assaulting. Screaming for help is a pretty good sign that somebody is tapping out.

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#132
Posted: 4/16/2012 1:58:15 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by bowlslit:

Cashin,

There was no way for Z to know that merely confronting him would lead to fist to cuffs. Even if it did lead to fist to cuffs. When a person taps out its time to just let it go and stop assaulting. Screaming for help is a pretty good sign that somebody is tapping out.

Hutch is right - too many unknowns right now. We have no idea how the fight started or who was doing the screaming tho I think in the end it was Martin & it was Z who provoked the fight in some way. And if Martin had seen the gun somehow before or during the tussle, he easily could have thought he was fighting for his life. Tragic story with no winners...

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