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Author: [Politics] Topic: ObamaCare Going Down?
rick3117 send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook |
rick3117
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#51
Posted: 3/31/2012 2:19:41 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by djbrow:

Again, under this view, any external factor would eliminate free markets. That cannot be true or free markets would never exist as it is impossible to divest externalisms.


No,  government intervention and subsidies can hardly be considered an "external factor"  or small contributor to ruining the free market. They are at the very base of the market.  A good question to ask someone llike DRJ is how many tests and procedures are priced based on govt. guidelines for what medicare will pay.

How about Bush's Medicare Prescription legislation.   DO you think that may have had any role in the Pharma market?  


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#52
Posted: 3/31/2012 2:22:35 PM
why are we conflating health insurance and health care?

You know, there was a time in history, when people had equitable, affordable access to the health care industry, and then after that, the health insurance industry came along. They are two seperate entities, one being a parasitical dependent, on the other (the host)

So why do you claim that we cannot have health care, with out insurance? Why am i not free to take my silver coins to the doctor and have him treat me? I have demand, for services he supplys, why must i first convert my labor into currency, and then purchase service via the insurance industry?

When you go to the doctor or a hospital, to they have a menu of their services, along with the prices they charge for them? Do you know why it is that they don't?


I do think it is cute when you resort to namecalling, whenever you are frustrated in a discussion. Perhaps if you weren't homeschooled, you would be better adapt at having discussions in public.

Hearsay, your "honor" 
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#53
Posted: 3/31/2012 2:23:43 PM
I have an idea, djbrow, my friend

If you know something that i don't, why not educate me on the matter, rather then to devolve to nonsensical personal attacks like not being educated, or being homeschooled


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#54
Posted: 3/31/2012 2:31:32 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by rick3117:


No,  government intervention and subsidies can hardly be considered an "external factor"  or small contributor to ruining the free market. They are at the very base of the market.  A good question to ask someone llike DRJ is how many tests and procedures are priced based on govt. guidelines for what medicare will pay.

How about Bush's Medicare Prescription legislation.   DO you think that may have had any role in the Pharma market?  


You are referring to external factors in relation to the actual purchase of insurance. You are making my point.

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#55
Posted: 3/31/2012 2:32:54 PM
QUOTE

Originally Posted by be easy:

why are we conflating health insurance and health care?

You know, there was a time in history, when people had equitable, affordable access to the health care industry, and then after that, the health insurance industry came along. They are two seperate entities, one being a parasitical dependent, on the other (the host)

So why do you claim that we cannot have health care, with out insurance? Why am i not free to take my silver coins to the doctor and have him treat me? I have demand, for services he supplys, why must i first convert my labor into currency, and then purchase service via the insurance industry?

When you go to the doctor or a hospital, to they have a menu of their services, along with the prices they charge for them? Do you know why it is that they don't?


I do think it is cute when you resort to namecalling, whenever you are frustrated in a discussion. Perhaps if you weren't homeschooled, you would be better adapt at having discussions in public.

Hearsay, your "honor" 

All irrelevant to the actual purchase/availability/competition of insurance providers. That is the issue I am addressing.

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#56
Posted: 3/31/2012 4:13:16 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by djbrow:

All irrelevant to the actual purchase/availability/competition of insurance providers. That is the issue I am addressing.



i don't understand this response

what IS the issue you are addressing?

lets assume what you say is true, that i am not educated enough, or that my homeschooling is getting in the way of understanding what you are saying. You obviously are passionate about this, so explain to it nice simple, short and sweet, so that i can understand it

heres a template to use

PROBLEM: (insert what you see to be the problem)
SOLUTION: (insert how you view this law as a solution)


that's assuming that you are ready to participate like an adult, rather than this childish fear tactics with no basis in fact

The quickest way to achieve universal health care would be to become like Somalia. You have money, you see a doctor. If you don't, you die on the street.

I have faith that a majority of Americans would react appropriately if it came to stepping over dead bodies of children on the street who were too poor to get medical treatment.


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#57
Posted: 3/31/2012 4:16:49 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by djbrow:

People buy their own insurance, even if their employer provides it. The money comes from somewhere and ultimately, from the pocket of the recipient.

If cars suddenly became extinct, and the only method of transporation was a bicycle, which suddenly became thousands of dollars, and people did not know how to use said bicycle, under your theory, it would fail the free market test?

That doesn't comport with the basic concept that multiple companies offer said bicycle and the buyer has multiple options in the purchase. That, my friend, is free market, even if the external factors have contributed to the cost.



this makes no sense. care to try again, or explain
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#58
Posted: 3/31/2012 5:12:49 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by be easy:

why are we conflating health insurance and health care?

You know, there was a time in history, when people had equitable, affordable access to the health care industry, and then after that, the health insurance industry came along. They are two seperate entities, one being a parasitical dependent, on the other (the host)

So why do you claim that we cannot have health care, with out insurance? Why am i not free to take my silver coins to the doctor and have him treat me? I have demand, for services he supplys, why must i first convert my labor into currency, and then purchase service via the insurance industry?

When you go to the doctor or a hospital, to they have a menu of their services, along with the prices they charge for them? Do you know why it is that they don't?


I do think it is cute when you resort to namecalling, whenever you are frustrated in a discussion. Perhaps if you weren't homeschooled, you would be better adapt at having discussions in public.

Hearsay, your "honor" 


And what happens when you get cancer and you inevitably don't have the 500,000 coins to pay for the care you need to survive?  Survival of the richest?
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#59
Posted: 3/31/2012 5:19:17 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by depeche2:



And what happens when you get cancer and you inevitably don't have the 500,000 coins to pay for the care you need to survive?  Survival of the richest?


1.) I don't intend to get cancer
2.) I wouldn't subject myself to radiation poisoning

Is there a cure for cancer i don't know about?

If i don't have the 500k for that procedure, i also don't have the 750$ to pay the IRS for my fine for not having insurance. Now what? I go to jail? So your fascist plan to help the poor, is to inevitably put poor people in cages?
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#60
Posted: 3/31/2012 5:20:26 PM
Insurance is supposed to mitigate risk, IN CASE something happens

If it is inevitable that i will need health care services, what are they insuring against at the soon to be psuedo government/'private' insurance companies?
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#61
Posted: 3/31/2012 5:20:47 PM
why does cancer treatment cost 500,000$ ?
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#62
Posted: 4/1/2012 9:21:48 AM
QUOTE

Originally Posted by be easy:



this makes no sense. care to try again, or explain

 

1) Some people say that our health care system issues can be solved by going to the free markets.

2) My argument is that it can never work because too many external factors exist AND as far as the actual purchase of insurance, it IS a free market.

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