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Author:	[Horse Racing] Topic: Creative Cause
thip	View Space \| Blog \| Friends \| Playbook \|
Veteran Joined: Aug 2004 Posts: 1599 Location: Georgia	#1 Posted: 4/18/2012 11:18:32 AM Boys I really believe CC is sittin on a big race. It's still 17 days away and a post position draw. However we know there's going to be speed. Hansen, Gem, TCI, Bode etc. Watching all of CC's races the past few days has my juices goin. He gets a good jump out of the gate, rates just off the pace and has finishes strong. I have no issues with him getting beat by IHA in SA Derby. Second was a good race and good conditioning run. He finished and ran out well. I like that he ran good at CH Downs. He has the foundation as a two year old, he has raced 3 times as three year old and has never finished worse than 3rd. He also has raced in a big field. Tough tough race but all my instincts point to him! Just my 2 cents..
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PrimeTimeBoys	RSI View Space \| Blog \| Friends \| Playbook \|
Banned Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 13343 Location: Pennsylvania	#2 Posted: 4/18/2012 11:38:35 AM I agree with you, I picked the same horse couple days ago after looking at his races.........only other horse that I keep looking at is Gemologist because he is undefeated & wont be a favorite because everyone is in love with Bode & Union Rags, he also has Pletcher as his trainer, so..........its between those 2 for me. Still gotta see the post draw..........
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HolyBull	View Space \| Friends \| Playbook \|
Captain Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 5818 Location: Massachusetts	#3 Posted: 4/18/2012 11:43:35 AM Can't argue it. HB
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Johnnyg7	RSI View Space \| Friends \| Playbook \|
Veteran Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 1755 Location: Pennsylvania	#4 Posted: 4/18/2012 12:41:09 PM Hard to believe Beyer thinks both he and I'll Have Another regressed in the SA Derby, I'll be interested to see the sheets and TG figures for that race. I personally believe Beyer just hates West Coast Racing and refuses to respect it. The race visually was very impressive, the final time was fast, and I'll Have Another was fresh while CC was making his 3rd start off the bench. Bodemeister come out of the San Felipe beaten by CC and romps the Arkansas Derby by 9 lengths with a 108. Yet we are supposed to believe the SA Derby was slower than the plodding we saw in the Wood? OK Andy...
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angrybarber	View Space \| Friends \| Playbook \| My Sportsbook: Sportsbook.com \|
Prospect Joined: Apr 2010 Posts: 259 Location: Pennsylvania	#5 Posted: 4/18/2012 12:55:23 PM johnnyg!!! thank u for talking about the beyer numbers i think theyre ridiculous for these 3 year old races! they seem way off to me
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Greyhound	View Space \| Blog \| Friends \| Playbook \|
Hall of Fame Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 20797 Location: Wisconsin	#6 Posted: 4/18/2012 12:55:24 PM QUOTE Originally Posted by Johnnyg7: Hard to believe Beyer thinks both he and I'll Have Another regressed in the SA Derby, I'll be interested to see the sheets and TG figures for that race. I personally believe Beyer just hates West Coast Racing and refuses to respect it. The race visually was very impressive, the final time was fast, and I'll Have Another was fresh while CC was making his 3rd start off the bench. Bodemeister come out of the San Felipe beaten by CC and romps the Arkansas Derby by 9 lengths with a 108. Yet we are supposed to believe the SA Derby was slower than the plodding we saw in the Wood? OK Andy... "Losses penalize handicappers who depend too heavily on numerical speed ratings or speed figures, neglecting other factors" Tom Ainslie, 1986 Chapter 12, "The Speed Factor" , page 211
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Johnnyg7	RSI View Space \| Friends \| Playbook \|
Veteran Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 1755 Location: Pennsylvania	#7 Posted: 4/18/2012 1:11:54 PM So what are you trying to say Grey?
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Greyhound	View Space \| Blog \| Friends \| Playbook \|
Hall of Fame Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 20797 Location: Wisconsin	#8 Posted: 4/18/2012 1:54:20 PM QUOTE Originally Posted by Johnnyg7: So what are you trying to say Grey? Ainslie's statement is pretty much self explanatory but you seem to be wrestling with the fact that Beyers numbers don't support your own thoughts. I think it's hilarious how nobody can have a thought about a horse race unless Andy Beyer and his crew verify it. That goofy guy hasn't picked a winner of a major race since he invented those stupid figures. Andy Beyer
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Johnnyg7	RSI View Space \| Friends \| Playbook \|
Veteran Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 1755 Location: Pennsylvania	#9 Posted: 4/18/2012 2:05:02 PM Actually Beyer's can be quite useful if you can spot out bad figures. That's what I was trying to get out. The betting public utilizes them so much especially on big race days and they are huge topics of discussion in the KD. I'm not struggling with the figure at all. I've already decided it's wrong, and Beyer's are the least of my worries when handicapping. I'll trust legit speed figures over that dart throwing contest any day of the week. Didn't Baffert say something along the lines of "If you want a big Beyer fig, you have to run at Aqueduct?"
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PrimeTimeBoys	RSI View Space \| Blog \| Friends \| Playbook \|
Banned Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 13343 Location: Pennsylvania	#10 Posted: 4/18/2012 10:43:16 PM CC is getting blinkers back on but it seems he shy's away from the whip & we all know how whip happy jockeys get coming down the stretch in the KD so the trainer & jockey gotta work on that. If im not mistaken, CC wasnt whipped at all coming down the stretch in the Santa Anita & still only lost by a nose.........
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thip	View Space \| Blog \| Friends \| Playbook \|
Veteran Joined: Aug 2004 Posts: 1599 Location: Georgia	#11 Posted: 4/19/2012 8:33:09 AM Joel Rosario whipped CC 2-3 times coming around last turn, then never touched him again down the stretch. I'll have another was on the whip comin to the finish line. I ussually do not like the west coast shippers, however you have to like the fact that CC ran strong at churchill.
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vetdrm	RSI View Space \| Friends \| Playbook \|
Captain Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 8055 Location: Antarctica	#12 Posted: 4/19/2012 6:51:52 PM He is always trying to either look at the people in the grandstands (even with the hood on) or wait on another horse without the blinks like he did in the SA Derby. Blinkers will definitely keep him more focused on running his own race. He was looking and maybe even waiting on I'll have another without the blinks. He does look much more powerful and long striding with the hood on. Also appears as Steve Haskins states he appears to shy away from the whip. If that is the case they need to fix that right away as jocks in the derby get very whip happy down the stretch. Im on the bubble with this horse.I dont think its a good idea to experiment to much with blinkers.He obviously needs them as evidenced by his run in the Santa Nita.
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vetdrm	RSI View Space \| Friends \| Playbook \|
Captain Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 8055 Location: Antarctica	#13 Posted: 4/19/2012 6:57:27 PM After reading an article today on Ntra they talk about cheater blinkers which will only restrict his vision http://www.ntra.com/content/display/news/NDk5NTE= a small amount. gl thip-nice horse
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thip	View Space \| Blog \| Friends \| Playbook \|
Veteran Joined: Aug 2004 Posts: 1599 Location: Georgia	#14 Posted: 5/2/2012 8:13:51 PM CC now has the 8 post and is 12-1 odds! Love it.
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HolyBull	View Space \| Friends \| Playbook \|
Captain Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 5818 Location: Massachusetts	#15 Posted: 5/2/2012 8:26:58 PM That's a horrible ML 12-1. Wathcmaker has him at 8-1 on DRF which is more like it. HB
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pulledclear	RSI View Space \| Friends \| Playbook \|
Banned Joined: Sep 2010 Posts: 3202 Location: United States	#16 Posted: 5/2/2012 8:38:28 PM Seems to be more for synthetics Ill pass.
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