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Author: [Politics] Topic: General Motors Is Headed For Bankruptcy -- Again
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#76
Posted: 8/22/2012 7:58:35 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Hirschfelder:



so the original tarp program never happened? It never included in its program money for Gm and Chrysler? It was never passed under a Republican President?


where were you four years ago today

are you better off now?

RIP koaj and pj
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#77
Posted: 8/22/2012 8:06:43 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by 14daroad:


Um, TARP wasn't passed in 2009. (GM was placed into bankruptcy on June 1, 2009 and the company was supplied with an additional $30.1 Billion dollars)

Um, you pretending that because it was "passed under a Republican President" it is somehow both party's fault the GM bailout failed, is silly.

Finally, TARP didn't include bailout money for GM & Chrysler.

So you can stop now.


14, you stated that: 

"TARP was legislatively created specifically for the financial market's crisis, not for bailing out GM. The Obama White House and Treasury Secretary bailed out GM. No Republicans were involved". And also that "TARP didn't include bailout money for GM & Chrysler"


False.


In actuality, Pres. Bush initiated the bailouts to GM and Chrysler on Dec, 19, 2008 by amending the original TARP to allow Sec. Paulson to allocate funds to any institution in financial distress.
http://www.forbes.com/2008/12/20/auto-bailout-update-markets-equity-cx_cg_1219markets29.html

Subsequently, GM and Chrysler(and their respective financial arms) were allocated more than 23 billion dollars on December 29, 2008, January 2, 2009 and January 16, 2009. All prior to Obama.
http://projects.propublica.org/bailout/programs/3-automotive-industry-financing-program


I do agree, however, that GM should not bandied about by Obama as a "success", due strictly to its miserable repayment record thus far and the likely huge loss to taxpayers. (Thousands of GM and affiliated auto workers would disagree, though, about its overall success). Perhaps bankruptcy should have been the chosen course of action, but we will never know. 

Chrysler,  though, can be viewed as a much better "success", as it is certainly viable now and left unpaid "only" 1.3 billion to taxpayers.

Ultimately, both Pres. Bush and Pres. Obama bear some responsibility(though not equal, as Obama was certainly more involved with GM) as the former initiated the auto bailouts and the latter followed them through to full course. 
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#78
Posted: 8/22/2012 8:35:55 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by bowlslit:

Originally posted by wallstreetcappers:

14,


Both of the above have been boxed for the same stuff you have, I guess since you didnt see it then the event didnt happen right?
--------------------------------------------------------------
You only box them 1/5 of the occurances that are warrented. While you box conservatives 1/3 of the time.
 
Face it wall....calling balls and strikes evenly is not one of your stronger points.
 
Example 1 post # 12 & 15
 
Example 2 post # 21
 

Think this concept over..which groups personally attack more and more often? 

I dont care about political affiliation, I care about attacks..unwarranted and regular attacks.

You are as often barking up the wrong tree as you are obviously looking for content that proves your point and ignoring content that does the opposite.
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#79
Posted: 8/23/2012 8:29:56 AM

Pres. Bush initiated the bailouts to GM and Chrysler on Dec, 19, 2008 by amending the original TARP to allow Sec. Paulson to allocate funds to any institution in financial distress

Bush gave GM a "loan" under TARP and in actuality broke the law.

The Senate never approved the measure.

 

 

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#80
Posted: 8/23/2012 3:48:06 PM
Originally posted by wallstreetcappers:
 
Think this concept over..which groups personally attack more and more often?

I dont care about political affiliation, I care about attacks..unwarranted and regular attacks.

You are as often barking up the wrong tree as you are obviously looking for content that proves your point and ignoring content that does the opposite.
----------------------------------------------------------
 
Answer to your question as to which group attacks more: Stiln and cdnumbers. Hands down.
 
I've seen you recently and not so recently warn 14 for merely being condescending and not attacking. Yet stiln and cdnumbers go scott free. And they are the leaders of the attack group. Unwarrented and regular. And regularly go without a word from you. Yes, you may issue them a token boxing every now and then to make it appear that you don't play favorites. CD especially has never learned his lesson and continues with the personal attacks cause he knows he will get away with it. Same with Stiln.
 
Why is it that you always get accused of playing favorites if you actually are being legit? I know this isn't the first time I've accused you of it. I'm not the only one.
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#81
Posted: 8/23/2012 3:52:30 PM
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#82
Posted: 8/23/2012 4:43:36 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by bowlslit:

Originally posted by wallstreetcappers:
 
Think this concept over..which groups personally attack more and more often?

I dont care about political affiliation, I care about attacks..unwarranted and regular attacks.

You are as often barking up the wrong tree as you are obviously looking for content that proves your point and ignoring content that does the opposite.
----------------------------------------------------------
 
Answer to your question as to which group attacks more: Stiln and cdnumbers. Hands down.
 
I've seen you recently and not so recently warn 14 for merely being condescending and not attacking. Yet stiln and cdnumbers go scott free. And they are the leaders of the attack group. Unwarrented and regular. And regularly go without a word from you. Yes, you may issue them a token boxing every now and then to make it appear that you don't play favorites. CD especially has never learned his lesson and continues with the personal attacks cause he knows he will get away with it. Same with Stiln.
 
Why is it that you always get accused of playing favorites if you actually are being legit? I know this isn't the first time I've accused you of it. I'm not the only one.

Answer your own questions..it is obvious that you see what you want to see, just as you are claiming that I do. 

There are a few on both sides who are unable to control their anger, it does seem there are more on one side and maybe that is because there are more on that same side in the first place, plus a few who are heavy posters and antagonize as a means of communicating to a large degree.

Worry about yourself and stop whining so much, oh and answer some questions as often as you ask them..you seem fresh to ask and a little less inclined to answer.

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#83
Posted: 8/23/2012 4:49:55 PM

see post #78

I am talking about my own experiences. I gave two examples that are still without so much as a peep from you to the attackers.

your last request can be said about just about every poster

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#84
Posted: 8/23/2012 10:11:15 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by 14daroad:

Pres. Bush initiated the bailouts to GM and Chrysler on Dec, 19, 2008 by amending the original TARP to allow Sec. Paulson to allocate funds to any institution in financial distress

Bush gave GM a "loan" under TARP and in actuality broke the law.

The Senate never approved the measure.

 

 


So you call Pres. Bush out on questions of Constitutional legality only when it suits your opinion? 
What about the legality of the NSA wiretaps? Did you support that subversion of Congress by Bush? Did you conveniently decide to overlook(wink wink) that violation because it fit your beliefs in a post 9-11 era?


It remains fact that Bush initiated and approved the start to the auto bailouts. He is responsible for 23+ billion taxpayer dollars of bailout money. Not a small number. He can and certainly should be held culpable for significantly(though less than Obama) abetting GM's current situation.

Oh and the current conservative darling, Paul Ryan(the vaunted fiscal hawk!) and 32 other Republican Congressmen also supported the auto bailouts in early Dec. 2008. So not all conservatives, including the current VP nominee, had the same take as you or other conservatives on the bailout being "wrong policy". Many thought it was absolutely warranted and great policy.




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#85
Posted: 8/23/2012 10:32:00 PM
Wall
I'd like to submit posts #'s 8, 13 and 17 as exhibit A, B and C.
This is the stuff I speak of.
If you are now going to tell people to worry about themselves and stop whining I would suggest you heed your own advice.
It's the political forum for Christs sake and if ppl want to bash a particular party or post a thread about a company partially owned by us taxpayers who are you to call them out for it.
Seems like BS to me.
If these are the new rules you might as well tell CT to shut down this forum bc ppl are too sensitive to ppl bashing a political party
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#86
Posted: 8/23/2012 10:41:36 PM
And for the last time for everyone here this is the time line for the bailouts - it did start with Bush. But what occurred after that happened on Ibama's watch.
Especially the push for the successful green Chevy Volt which is running tax payers about $250,000 per car in subsidies. It was green and he went for it.....failure of you ask me. The biggest purchaser of the vehicle is the Feds. Not exactly a car loved by the American car buying public otherwise they would have sold more.

http://useconomy.about.com/od/criticalssues/a/auto_bailout.htm
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#87
Posted: 8/23/2012 11:44:25 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by lordspoint:

Wall
I'd like to submit posts #'s 8, 13 and 17 as exhibit A, B and C.
This is the stuff I speak of.
If you are now going to tell people to worry about themselves and stop whining I would suggest you heed your own advice.
It's the political forum for Christs sake and if ppl want to bash a particular party or post a thread about a company partially owned by us taxpayers who are you to call them out for it.
Seems like BS to me.
If these are the new rules you might as well tell CT to shut down this forum bc ppl are too sensitive to ppl bashing a political party

No way...you are not going to cherry pick what you want and ignore other things which do not support your whining.

You need to follow the proper flow of the discussion, not nit pick a post or two in the chain of events..that is sloppy and is part of the problem not the solution.

Look at the first post I made, dont jump in the middle and try to pull that routine.


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#88
Posted: 8/24/2012 12:05:09 AM
I jumped in when you went off track and questioned the posters intent.
I already explained my opinion on the subject so I am not cherry picking anything. You started down the path of saying you don't think the poster should be happy aboiyt GM going bankrupt. The poster then stated he felt GM would come out healthier after Chapter 11 (some experts agree)......then you went off the tracks my friend
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#89
Posted: 8/24/2012 12:21:19 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by lordspoint:

I jumped in when you went off track and questioned the posters intent.
I already explained my opinion on the subject so I am not cherry picking anything. You started down the path of saying you don't think the poster should be happy aboiyt GM going bankrupt. The poster then stated he felt GM would come out healthier after Chapter 11 (some experts agree)......then you went off the tracks my friend

My friend??? good one. I dont have many friends looking to hit me in the back of the head like you..so spare me the funny stuff and stick to complaining and cherry picking.

Lets follow the flow of the discussion since you are unable or unwilling.

Post 4- I state that I would not be giddy about a large US employer going into BK..

Then 14 pulls his sarcastic reply which was quite insincere and his posting history in the thread and the forum support this conclusion. He is not interested in GM as a company nor the health of their operations..read post 1 if you seriously think he is sincerely concerned about GM as a company.

So the next post after his sarcastic reply I call him on the joke of a reply..

See you might defend and support threads and posts which are done only to be combative and start a fight..that is not good content nor is it doing anything of value.

The rest of your "complaint" is my legitimate attempt to have him admit the intent of the thread..I am not interested in your approval or blessing, the thread creator made this gem in order to kick some dust and 90 posts later he has done what he does so well.

I think you need better material to complain about, something more concrete and on topic..better yet why not participate in legitimate discussion and not trail me looking for reasons to cry about the unfairness of the poor republicans on the website.

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#90
Posted: 8/24/2012 7:38:59 AM
he is responsible for 23+ billion taxpayer dollars of bailout money.


False.
Bush initiated a $16 Billion dollar loan to GM  in mid-December of 2008. 

What about the legality of the NSA wiretaps? Did you support that subversion of Congress by Bush?


The NSA wiretaps were and are legal. Also, nothing about those wiretaps "subverted" anything Congress did or said.
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#91
Posted: 8/24/2012 7:40:09 AM
So you call Pres. Bush out on questions of Constitutional legality only when it suits your opinion? 


Actually, I call out politicians based on factual events. 


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#92
Posted: 8/24/2012 7:58:15 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by 14daroad:

he is responsible for 23+ billion taxpayer dollars of bailout money.


False.
Bush initiated a $16 Billion dollar loan to GM  in mid-December of 2008. 

What about the legality of the NSA wiretaps? Did you support that subversion of Congress by Bush?


The NSA wiretaps were and are legal. Also, nothing about those wiretaps "subverted" anything Congress did or said.

Wrong on both counts. Those are the facts. Read up on both.
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#93
Posted: 8/24/2012 10:30:53 AM
Wall
I am part liberal....when I see injustice by a person of power I say something.
Your last sentence says everything I have been alluding to regarding your conduct around here over the years.
"looking for reasons to cry about the unfairness of the poor republicans on the website"

Do I take that statement as an admission that you do treat republican posters different that liberals?

It's ok for you to call out a fellow poster who has a legitimate topic but you are off limits to get called on the carpet?
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#94
Posted: 8/24/2012 10:38:44 AM
Wall
Please go back and look what 14s reply was to you - where is the sarcasm?
Maybe you have an agenda bc this was his reply to you after ur post 4.

Wall Street,

GM would emerge from bankruptcy a healthier company.

 

How the hell is that sarcastic?
Get off your high horse around here.....you are calling out posters for creating a good topic of political discussion (GM) and then go off on a rant on who around here in YOUR opinion post stuff that is attacking in nature.

Might as well add your name to that list.
Like I said I an part liberal so when I see an injustice I say something.
Do us all a favor and back off.
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#95
Posted: 8/24/2012 11:10:39 AM
everybody in this thread needs to take some midol....jesus...
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#96
Posted: 8/24/2012 11:29:17 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by lordspoint:

Wall
Please go back and look what 14s reply was to you - where is the sarcasm?
Maybe you have an agenda bc this was his reply to you after ur post 4.

Wall Street,

GM would emerge from bankruptcy a healthier company.

 

How the hell is that sarcastic?
Get off your high horse around here.....you are calling out posters for creating a good topic of political discussion (GM) and then go off on a rant on who around here in YOUR opinion post stuff that is attacking in nature.

Might as well add your name to that list.
Like I said I an part liberal so when I see an injustice I say something.
Do us all a favor and back off.

Good one..

You obviously are unable to read a post, then another and see trends, or know the history of someone and their positions.

Post 1 and the one you are referring to do not pass the test of consistency.

If you are suggesting that some posters do not create threads for the sole intent of bashing a certain party I think you might want to reconsider that mistaken viewpoint.

Now if someone who had a consistent posting history and had not prefaced previously in the exact opposite way made that comment then I might not think the same thing.

I think 14 is capable of dishing and he is capable of dealing with responses to his dishing, he doesnt need your misguided protection or worry.

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#97
Posted: 8/24/2012 11:59:12 AM
Whatever wall.....I read posts and see the trend that you follow; you see the trends of the "right".
You have the badge - have fun dictating what your opinions are to others and stating that their posts are without merit to be in this forum.
I have called out your bias before so my doing it again is in no defense of 14 so don't be naive.
Later one way street
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#98
Posted: 8/24/2012 12:02:20 PM
And when you find evidence of your past nose swatting a of a lefty I would certainly love a link to it.
Thanks for your honesty and transparency.
Peace out homer
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#99
Posted: 8/24/2012 2:18:04 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by mellow_wolf:


Wrong on both counts. Those are the facts. Read up on both.


Hilarious.

Um, notice you can't name any judge declaring what Bush did "illegal" nor can you name a statute that is related in any manner what so ever to the warrantless wiretapping program.

It was certainly legal and you blithely saying "no it wasn't" isn't an argument.

===============

Note: Late in 2008, the Bush administration signed off on emergency loans to GM and Chrysler. The bailout eventually totaled $17.4 billion. 
Another reference on the $17 billion figure (which was not just GM).

You continue to be factually wrong.

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#100
Posted: 8/24/2012 2:19:22 PM
I think 14 is capable of dishing and he is capable of dealing with responses to his dishing, he doesnt need your misguided protection or worry.


I certainly don't. But your selective enforcement of the rules based on your preferred political affiliation is both apparent and unfair.


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